Righting line :: Catamaran Sailboats at TheBeachcats.com

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Righting line

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rattlenhum

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 01, 2002

Last visit: Sep 14, 2024

Posts: 425
Posted: Jun 24, 2021 - 02:49 PM

Wow, this is the most cordial and informative discussion ever on the epic righting-line-over-or-under-the-hull topic! What....are we all getting old and soft?

Maybe we should go ahead and tackle the trailer-with-rudders-on-or-off topic again? Or how 'bout the to-wax-or-not-to-wax one?

Just don't want see things get too boring around here!

--
Jerome Vaughan
Hobie 16
Clinton, Mississippi
--
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Jun 24, 2021 - 06:43 PM

:)
Evolution is expected after so many iterations!

Edited by Andinista on Jun 24, 2021 - 06:45 PM.
martin_langhoff

Rank: Mate

Registered: Oct 26, 2016

Last visit: Nov 04, 2024

Posts: 233
Posted: Jun 25, 2021 - 10:27 AM

QuoteYou sliced and diced my post and missed the point.

From the perspective of the boat rotating ~90 degrees from capsized to upright, it makes no difference where the line is connected. The CG is all that matters.

From the perspective of the person(s) hanging on the line, it makes a difference. The higher up/farther outboard the line is mounted, the easier it will be on your body.

Over the hull for sure.

_Unless_ you take "arms pulling the line" out of the equation. So, set things up so that the line has _something_ to put your trapeze hook. At that point you stretch our arms over your head for more leverage...
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Jun 25, 2021 - 03:18 PM

just don't flip
Edchris177

Rank: Chief

Registered: Nov 26, 2009

Last visit: Aug 10, 2024

Posts: 2531
Posted: Jun 25, 2021 - 05:26 PM

MN3just don't flip

While theoretically possible, that can only occur if you just don’t go sailing
martyr

Rank: Mate

Registered: Jul 01, 2016

Last visit: Aug 30, 2023

Posts: 631
Posted: Jun 28, 2021 - 06:23 PM

cmiles3Remember, the Hawaiian righting system & variants are always "over the hull". They are attached to the pylons on both sides of the boat, ready to deploy, from above.

If you have a righting line, have you practiced using it on the water? The 1st time or 3, it's a challenging learning experience, best practiced in calm conditions where you can take time to sort out everything. Capsizing on the water, in choppy conditions & a stout breeze is not a good time to learn where everything is & how to tie/release/reach the line. Things look different from the water, while tightening the straps on your PFD, checking on your crew, & watching your gear bag & cooler sailing away from you faster than you can swim.

Highly recommend the "Hawaiian" style of righting system. Some have mentioned Joe from Joyrider TV having the righting line tied to the DS, even so, he always says to throw the line over the upper hull, also has knots tied into the line for something to grab onto when pulling. Anyhoo, seems one would definitely have more leverage if the line is over the upper hull, just makes sense.

--
Marty
1984 Hobie 16 Redline Yellow Nationals, "Yellow Fever"
Opelika, Al / Lake Martin
--
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Jun 29, 2021 - 07:28 AM

martyrAnyhoo, seems one would definitely have more leverage if the line is over the upper hull, just makes sense.

Yes, you have more leverage, and for that reason it’s a bit more confortable. Now think about the torque that the boat applies to your body through the righting line: it is also higher with the line over the hull, exactly as much as to produce 0 difference on the net torque that rights the boat.

Edited by Andinista on Jun 29, 2021 - 08:44 AM.
Andinista

Rank: Mate

Registered: Aug 18, 2003

Last visit: Dec 13, 2023

Posts: 880
Posted: Jun 29, 2021 - 07:51 AM

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=oHIcLc7pssc
Here is Joe actually demonstrating that there is more leverage with the line above the hull. He is the only one heavy enough to right the boat. If you look closely, when he tríes with the line under the hull, he is bending at the hip, not straight as in the other cases, that’s all the difference. It is perhaps a relevant difference, because it is less natural to acheive the right position with the line under the hull.

Edited by Andinista on Jun 29, 2021 - 08:45 AM.
martin_langhoff

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Registered: Oct 26, 2016

Last visit: Nov 04, 2024

Posts: 233
Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 09:26 AM

Joe was not fully stretched out. The woman had excellent form. If you use the Hawaiian system combined with a hook to your trapeze, you get the full leverage and arms are free.
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

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Posted: Jun 30, 2021 - 10:54 AM

6:55 mark shows you what moving in and out 5 - 12" does

good video - i think it concludes (for righting) it doesn't matter where the line is attached - it's all about weight out

but as mentioned above it matters a lot to a human's hands and arms where the line is attached IF they are holding the line

I agree with Martin that using a loop in the righting line is a good method to save arm / overall strength which can be a big factor

i also agree (to a degree) with the comment above about not attaching yourself to a righting boat

so there are pros and cons to every method. (like everything on a boat)

I think it was interesting that it looked "easier" to lift (on non moving land) to pull via a trap wire
jonathan162

Rank: Mate

Registered: May 03, 2006

Last visit: Aug 03, 2024

Posts: 276
Posted: Jul 04, 2021 - 08:06 PM

On a closely related note, how come nobody's mentioned shroud extenders (w/ or w/o Hyfield levers)? Hobie sells 'em, and Bill Roberts saw them as integral to righting (esp. the SC20) and made them standard equipment. In the SuperCat's case, the mast ball is captive in the mast base thanks to a pin, but I've never been clear on how many other boats would support this kind of setup e.g. the Mystere's mast justs sits on the ball, so there'd be a risk of the two disconnecting and making the capsize much worse.

What are the experiences out there?

--
Southern Alberta and all over the damn place.
*
1981 SuperCat 20 "Roberts' Rockets"
1983 SuperCat 19
TriFoiler #23 "Unfair Advantage"
Mystere 17
Unicorn A-Class (probably made by Trowbridge) that I couldn't resist rescuing at auction.
H18 & Zygal (classic) Tornado - stolen and destroyed - very unpleasant story.
Invitation and Mistral and Sunflower and windsurfers w/ Harken hydrofoils and god knows what else...
--
Dogboy

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Registered: Mar 19, 2004

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Posts: 964
Posted: Jul 05, 2021 - 07:52 AM

That vdeo also shows how uncomfortable the Hawaiian righting system is to use. You can see how it’s somewhat awkward to grip the righting line while fighting against the bungee cord.

sm

Edited by Dogboy on Jul 05, 2021 - 08:11 AM.