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Newbie - Did I waste $1700? Mast kink on Mystere 6.0

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MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 12:04 PM

dup

Edited by MN3 on Sep 28, 2021 - 12:11 PM.
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

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Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 12:07 PM

jgregsTime to learn fiberglass repair!

QuoteThis may be the right time to add some thicened epoxy to your bulkheads to siffen them up - they are know to come separated, esp in 6.0's

Yeah I noticed one on the port side was loose so I will give them a once over.

. . . this boat's going to be bomb proof after all these repairs

No fiberglass work in this thread (yet)
Just use that six10 product (thickened epoxy and catalyst in a tube with a mixing nozzle) - i recommend a power caulking gun (maybe worth renting) but a $4 one will work too

Read surface prep through Bonding with Fillets. pg 30-33. (actually read the entire thing if you have the time
https://www.westsystem.co…ads/User-Manual-2015.pdf

there are other epoxy products but this is a pretty simple and proven product -
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

Registered: Jun 20, 2006

Last visit: May 22, 2024

Posts: 7089
Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 12:15 PM

QuoteGet hold of Yves Sansoucy, Mystere catamarans,

Pretty sure his son Yannick is running the show now -

see Yannick -Voile Sansoucy Owner https://voilesansoucy.com/a-propos/
also read the histroy
boatbore

Rank: Lubber

Registered: Jul 14, 2015

Last visit: Aug 20, 2024

Posts: 77
Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 12:57 PM

Quotehad to use a crowbar and sledge hammer to break into mine and it was ugly.

I would guess the glue did in-fact dry-up and get brittle and simply fail

Hmm, these mysteres are truly mysterious boats

--
Dart 20
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MN3

Rank: Master Chief

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Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 01:25 PM

QuoteHmm, these mysteres are truly mysterious boats

Great design, made to last until the manufacturer warranty expires - then explode
jgregs

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Last visit: Jun 08, 2023

Posts: 70
Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 01:39 PM

Would you use the six10 for stabalizing the bulkheads as well as re attaching the top panels?

I'm having trouble getting the panel all the way off. It appears that the original owner did some repairs in the area and only reglued half the panel.
MN3

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Posts: 7089
Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 02:20 PM

QuoteWould you use the six10 for stabilizing the bulkheads as well as re attaching the top panels?

yes
you probably do want to wet in the fillet (wet the hulls with unthickend epoxy before adding the thickened epoxy for a better bond)
so you may need to get a small epoxy bottle and small catalyst

QuoteI'm having trouble getting the panel all the way off. It appears that the original owner did some repairs in the area and only reglued half the panel.

sounds like boatbore was correct
you will have to verify his repairs prior to sealing them

Edited by MN3 on Sep 28, 2021 - 02:23 PM.
jgregs

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Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 02:54 PM

[/quote]
sounds like boatbore was correct. you will have to verify his repairs prior to sealing them[/quote]

Do you know any way to breakdown the glue or to get it up? My worry is snapping the panel
MN3

Rank: Master Chief

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Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 04:01 PM

QuoteDo you know any way to breakdown the glue or to get it up? My worry is snapping the panel

Break it down?
flame thrower or dynamite

you can try using a metal scraper or putty knife but i doubt that will get you too far

we used a hammer and chisel in spots it would come apart and a small sledge hammer and crow bar in spots it wouldn't - it got ugly but the point of load (impact) was on the hull lip, not the deck lid

You can get a camera on a selfie stick in there and take a ton of pics or video - before you go nuts to get the entire lid off (creating a ton of work) are you sure it is needed?
charlescarlis

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Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 05:14 PM

Man, I'd follow the advice and get a good look inside the thing first with a camera. There may be no need to remove it and reattaching with epoxy may be all you need to do. Thickened epoxy to glue it down and then seal around the edges with regular thin, then fair it out/fill in cracks with thicker, if needed. May just need to attach it back down, enure it's sealed and go. For other areas that are still glued down, but you're worried about, you can do the inject-epoxy thing.

--
Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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boatbore

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Posted: Sep 28, 2021 - 08:43 PM

Quote
You can get a camera on a selfie stick in there and take a ton of pics or video - before you go nuts to get the entire lid off (creating a ton of work) are you sure it is needed?

Yep, absolutely do this, look extra close at the daggerboard trunk and bulkheads. But don't glue the cap down until you're sure there's nothing more you ever want to do inside the hull ever again.
The previous owner started a repair but never finished it. Why? Did he decide removing the deck was too much trouble or did he do the repairs and just not glue the deck down. A mysterey.
Removing the deck is not fun, you need the thickest putty knife/scrapper with a slab tang you can find, sharpened to a chisel edge, a hammer, determination, and patience. The hardest part is the beginning and that's done.
It's a 25 year old boat you can assume was ridden hard and put away wet. How are you going to use it? On the ocean or a little inland lake where you can swim to shore if it disappears from underneath you.
And what's up with that mast?

The Bore

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Dart 20
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jgregs

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 01:45 PM

QuoteThe previous owner started a repair but never finished it. Why? Did he decide removing the deck was too much trouble or did he do the repairs and just not glue the deck down. A mysterey

It looks like he tried to do some repair around the daggerboard trunk but the bulkheads don't appear to have been touched. I'm pretty sure the original owner had no ideas what he was doing because there is a lot of sloppy work. I'm sure it was functional but I really don't trust it.

[quote=boatbore]
Quote

Removing the deck is not fun, you need the thickest putty knife/scrapper with a slab tang you can find, sharpened to a chisel edge, a hammer, determination, and patience. The hardest part is the beginning and that's done.
It's a 25 year old boat you can assume was ridden hard and put away wet. How are you going to use it? On the ocean or a little inland lake where you can swim to shore if it disappears from underneath you.
The Bore

My biggest worry is breaking the deck panel or the "shelf" it sits on trying to get the panel off. I have no problem doing the work needed. My fear is making it worse and doing something that is prohibitively expensive to repair or is unfixable and having to scrap the whole project for lack of skill and expertise.

QuoteAnd what's up with that mast?

I'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast. I have an uncle I was talking to who is a captain and an experience sailor who was optimistic an experienced rigger could help sort it out so I have been looking for someone but Atlanta (where I am) doesn't have a very robust sailing community so finding experts nearby who could help are few and far between. I have reached out to my local yacht clubs but no one has responded.
Edchris177

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 02:26 PM

QuoteI'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast.

This is not rocket science, or a job for a rigger.
You either undo the tension adjustment at the bottom, or undo the spreader bars. I can’t remember how mine tensioned, but it’s usually a sharp awl through a hole in the turnbuckle, in combination with an open end wrench to turn it.
If that fails, remove all the crap from where the spreaders are attached to the mast. Remove the cotter pins. Sit down, put your feet against the mast, & pull, (one hand on each side of the spreader). It doesn’t take much force. This will bow the mast a bit, & release tension on the pins. Have a helper push the pins out, the spreader bars will now come off.
Once one spreader is off, the other will have no tension, & can be easily removed.
I do this each year with the N5.7 & H18 masts as they won’t go through the basement window for storage with the spreaders attached. The N5.7 & the Dart mast fit through.
The mast can now be examined at its natural state.
Reassembly is the opposite.it takes only a few minutes, then re-take the ring dings, & tension using a Loos gauge.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
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jgregs

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 02:41 PM

Edchris177
This is not rocket science, or a job for a rigger.

yeah, the hardware is just stuck and stubborn so I'm trying to be careful and use plenty of WD-40

My uncle was more refering to a rigger could get the mast I have straightened up

Edited by jgregs on Sep 29, 2021 - 03:57 PM.
Edchris177

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 03:18 PM

The fittings are not a really tight tolerance. If the pins are a bit corroded, just have buddy tap a pin punch on them while you pull.
Another option is to undo the spreader at the pointy end. It consists of a small triangle with 3 pins. You only need to remove one of them.
Your photos don’t look like the mast is unusable, no sharp kinks evident, but photos often don’t show the complete story. Tip the mast on edge & sight down the sail track. Gentle bends can be fixed.

Edited by Edchris177 on Sep 29, 2021 - 03:22 PM.

--
Hobie 18 Magnum
Dart 15
Mystere 6.0XL Sold Was a handful solo
Nacra 5.7
Nacra 5.0
Bombardier Invitation (Now officially DEAD)
Various other Dock cluttering WaterCrap
--
jgregs

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 03:30 PM

Edchris177. . . no sharp kinks evident, but photos often don’t show the complete story. Tip the mast on edge & sight down the sail track. Gentle bends can be fixed.Edited by Edchris177 on Sep 29, 2021 - 03:22 PM.

Thats good to hear and very much were we are. I'm learning there is a big difference between and kink and bend and I'm glad to say I believe we are dealing with the latter.
MN3

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 04:08 PM

QuoteIt looks like he tried to do some repair around the daggerboard trunk but the bulkheads don't appear to have been touched. I'm pretty sure the original owner had no ideas what he was doing because there is a lot of sloppy work. I'm sure it was functional but I really don't trust it.

mysteres are known for some leaks in the dagger board wells - its harder to work in there too

QuoteMy biggest worry is breaking the deck panel or the "shelf" it sits on trying to get the panel off. I have no problem doing the work needed. My fear is making it worse and doing something that is prohibitively expensive to repair or is unfixable and having to scrap the whole project for lack of skill and expertise.

yup i mutilated spots of mine - it was ugly and my deck are no wheres neat show room condition after the surgery but i have 1 pretty boat (the 6.0) and one that i have sailed 3000 times and it shows

QuoteI'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast. I have an uncle I was talking to who is a captain and an experience sailor who was optimistic an experienced rigger could help sort it out so I have been looking for someone but Atlanta (where I am)

wd40 is not gonna do anything on stuck fittings on these boats - you need Blaster if there is any corrosion involved

More PICTURES PLEASE
MN3

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 04:13 PM

QuoteI'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast.

Does yours diamond wire/mast area look like mine?
is that what is stuck?
top left on image (the center barrel that has nuts on the top and bottom)

Edited by MN3 on Sep 29, 2021 - 04:14 PM.
jgregs

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 04:54 PM

MN3
QuoteI'm having trouble getting the diamond wires loosened to look at the bare mast.

Does yours diamond wire/mast area look like mine?
is that what is stuck?
top left on image (the center barrel that has nuts on the top and bottom)

Yup. Looks like the similar hardware. Where it anchors it isn't a nut but instead is a aluminum cylinder with a threaded hole (like that pictured below)

Its the barrel that doesn't want to move. When I try to twist that, it twists the entire wire so I'm going to support it as best as I can and put some more muscle behind it.

Edited by jgregs on Sep 29, 2021 - 05:57 PM.
MN3

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Posted: Sep 29, 2021 - 05:12 PM

Quote I'm going to support it as best as I can and put some more muscle behind it.

where the wire connects to the threads, there should be a flat spot - you put a vice grip on it there, one above and one below). Someone else (since you need to hold both) will then put a small allen wrench (or similar sized punch) in the hole in the middle of the barrel for leverage OR you use vice grips but it will scar the crap out of it and i don't think i have ever had much success that way.

you should soak everything over night with blaster or some other enzyme product that will help free up frozen hardware

and post pics of YOUR setup please (we know its a pita)