So I have repairing a 1993 Mystere 6.0 and part of the reason for buying a project boat was to learn everything first hand. However I still have a few questions that I haven't been able to figure out - either by experimenting or by looking at pictures of other people's setups.
1) In this image (https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=136338) there are two ropes that run as in an X across the trampoline running from the jib blocks through a fairlead and then to a jam cleat in the jib track. These pull the jib block closer to the track but what I don't understand is, if I'm seated on the starboard hull, the rope in the jam cleat closest to me is going to move the port-side jib block. Why would I want that?
2) Similarly, the jib track allows me to move the anchoring point of the jib blocks forward or backward - is this an ergonomics/access thing or does this impact jib performance
3) This boat came with a 6:1 downhaul (not shown). I know the hook will fit into the tack of the sail but the shackle at the bottom doesn't appear to have an attachment point on either the forward spar or on the mast itself. Also, I assume the two cam cleats at the base of the mast are for the downhaul (on of them shown in the second photo below)
https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=136342
https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=136346
Cockpit Rigging
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 07:08 AM
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 08:24 AM
the simple answer is:
you want to move the jib blocks inboard for upwind sailing
you want to move the jib blocks outboard for downwind sailing
read up on sail shape to understand why - then you will know how to adjust it for every angle of attack
B - impacts jib shape and performance
typically you want the jib sheet (from the block to the jib clew) to "point" at the middle of the sail (equal pull on the top and foot of the sail.
read up on sail shape to understand why - then you will know how to adjust it for every angle of attack
not sure if there is a question in here but typically you have 2 free bitter ends of the downhaul line and the line is reeved between a bunch of turning blocks and end on the swivel cleats on the mast, so you can grab and adjust from either side of the mast -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 08:32 AM
Gotcha, that makes sense. Most of my time sailing was on a Capri 22 and a Snipe (16ft dighy) neither of which had that level of adjustment.
I guess the question is where does the shackle on the bottom block link to. Even if I put the free ends through the swivel cleats, there is an end with a snap shackle that needs to be attached or else tightening the system will only raise the lower block rather than pull down on the sail. Does that makes sense? Both ends have to attach to something solid in order to apply proper tension right? -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 09:26 AM
both ends live in cleats. when both are cleated and taught / downhaul is applied
when either end is released from the cleat there is zero downhaul applied
i can't guess where a block and shackle go in your system - would need to see your gear
but i suggest you search for catamaran setups and you should see a 6:1 -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 09:28 AM
Yeah. I don't have a lower cleat on the fore-spar or on the mast. Do I need to install one? Images below to assist
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=136342
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=136346 -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 09:46 AM
At least on my 8:1 downhaul, neither free end is attached to anything and the downhaul can be adjusted from either side. If I get around to it, I can/should actually run the downhaul lines out to each hull with the cam cleats being there so I can adjust easily from either side of the boat. Others do it this way.
Essentially, the "free ends" of the continuous line are secured in a cam cleat with constant tension (of course). The line isn't one line, but actually 2, connected by a ball and loop through the sail tack. That allows you to really haul down all the way on the sail, if the tack is independent of the boom. Maybe something they use on modern F18 boats?
You can do a downhaul with one end secured, say in the luff track with a eye and shackle and mine was like that before, but I needed more purchase so increased it to 8:1 by adding a couple more cheek blocks on each side and the swivel cam cleats down low on the mast. WAY smoother and more powerful.
Coming from a Capri, the sail adjustments are WAY different. Don't know what the Mystere has for controls, but it'll be way different to get the right shape and position of the sail.
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 10:52 AM
this is how i run my setup
instead of the turning block in the sailtrack, i attach mine via a loop of line to my boom -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 12:04 PM
Bingo! Close to the way I run mine also. Actually forgot that I have those 2 loose blocks up high that allow me to run the line through the tack with the ball and loop method of attachment. Way more better.
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Chuck C
NACRA 500 Mk2
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 12:38 PM
mine looks different (sorry forgot to take pictures) in that it isn't attached to the mast. It is mechanically similar to this one in that it has two pulley blocks, it's just not as heavy duty and is for sailing. To be honest when first say it I thought it was a vang.
https://i.pinimg.com/orig…15e237e4b8226519f7ab.jpg
Since the top block has a hook, this can go through the tack of the sail but the other block on the bottom has a shackle and I don't see a hook or fastener on the mast to hook it to. Hope this helps, should have taken more pictures
Edited by jgregs on Feb 24, 2022 - 01:51 PM. -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 12:39 PM
(1) is your inboard/outboard jib lead adjustment. Moving inboard will allow you to point higher upwind until the point that you start closing the jib slot and backwinding the main. Put some type of stopper or reference mark so you don’t bring it in too far. Outboard would be to depower the boat in stronger winds, similar to traveling out your mainsheet when it’s windy - the main and jib travelers should move inboard and outboard together. The reason the adjustments are lead to the windward side of the boat is so you can pull the lead outboad when its windy without needing to go to the low side. If just casual sailing and you find that having the lines run across the tramp is a tangle nuissnce, then cut them short.
(2) Fore/aft jib adjustment allows you to change the loading on the leech vs. the foot and therefore the way that the jib luff breaks. In light to medium conditions, you want the sail to break (luff) consistently from head to tack. Sheet in for your upwind setting, get sailing, and then gradually turn the boat into the wind. If the upper section of the sail luffs first, then move the lead forward to put more tension on the leech and “sheet in” the top of the jib harder. When its windy, move the leads aft to allow the top of the jib to twist open and spill power.
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 02:29 PM
So you have two sets of double blocks with a hook? Maybe they don't make the downhaul threaded as that picture but both are hooked to the sail grommet. Look at MN3's picture above, there are two double blocks tied with a black/blue line. Instead of the line, the two hooks fix both double blocks to the sail grommet. Could be? That's a common setup.
And for the lower end, you have some of the blocks and the two cleats here, just at the right of the blue screw driver, on each side of the mast I would presume:
The missing blocks are probably attached directly to the mast somewhere, I see an eye strap there that could take a block or a double block.
Edited by Andinista on Feb 24, 2022 - 02:30 PM. -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 02:41 PM
Here is an example
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 02:48 PM
Yeah the top end makes sense to me since it is similar to what I did on Snipes I was on (the block with a hook attaches to the sail tack)
Yup and I believe these would be where the two terminal ends feed through into the cockpit.
This is where I'm stuck as well. The eye strap is on the front of the mast so I assumed it was used for the job in some capacity. I don't think I've ever seen a downhaul connect and then wrap 180 around the mast - is that a thing?
Here is a better view of that eye strap opposite the downhaul cleats on the front
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=136349 -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 03:05 PM
much more likely this is where you attach a bungee as a jib sheet jam preventer (they get caught under the mast base when you tack).
edit: i think mystere's also tied off the jib to this eyestrap in the past too - i have seen that on most mystere masts (many) and it is where i "park" my jib halyard when stowed (jib halyard tied to the jib sailhead D-shackle and secured to this eyestrap for tow/stow
I wouldn't get overly hung up on how it was reeved, just get something that works as a cunningham with all/most the purchases you have for now and get on the water, or dry rigged in the yard, take some pics when reeved and we can provide better solutions
hobie 18's come stock with a 3:1 iirc
this is a powerful control but it wont flip ya if you don't have it set correctly (unless its honking out and you need to depower every which way possible - then you want it on VERY SNUG)
Edited by MN3 on Feb 24, 2022 - 05:18 PM. -
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Posted: Feb 24, 2022 - 05:25 PM
[quote=MN3]
Yeah I still gotta get a rigger to look at that mast which I haven't had luck straightening on my own. Once that piece is done I can figure out how it all comes together and can send some more detailed shots.
Also, with lines that raise or lower the centerboard, should the run through a cleat of some sort? Keeping them down seems to happen by the weight of them (although there is a line that runs from the centerboard after through a fairlead and across to the opposite centerboard). The lines for pulling them up doesn't run through a cleat so I wasn't sure how that was supposed to work. It looks like the previous owner removed several cams and eye straps from the front so I'm not sure if different lines should be running through a piece of missing hardware.
Edited by jgregs on Feb 24, 2022 - 06:38 PM. -
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Posted: Feb 25, 2022 - 08:14 AM
the centerboards do not utilize any cleats
there are 2 turning blocks on each board and you just run the (pullup) line from the board forward, around the near turning block - accross the deck to the other forward turning block and attached to the centerboard - same rigging for the aft line (pulldown). the aft line can go into the pocket/tunnel on the tramp where the 4way jib adjuster lines go (if you have that on your tramp,, they typically rip and fail eventually so an older tramp may not have one.)
you DO want to add bungee on the boards, they help hold the board down (and up) but are not perfect. you WILL need to secure your boards UP when trailering (i just utilize the pull up line and tie them up
Edited by MN3 on Feb 25, 2022 - 08:19 AM. -
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Posted: Feb 25, 2022 - 09:20 AM
@MN3 - Ok good. that's how I have I currently but I wasn't sure if I was missing something. Thanks! -
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Posted: Feb 25, 2022 - 10:36 AM
Glad to help
if you look at my front beam you can see a cleat facing inboard on each side - that is for my barberhauler - that is probably what is on your front beam too, and I have a spin-tackline cleat near the mast
Edited by MN3 on Feb 25, 2022 - 10:39 AM. -
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Posted: Feb 25, 2022 - 10:47 AM
Yeah, you have hardware that I don't and it is setup differently. I'm getting the impression that a lot of setup, beyond some basics, comes down to personal preference and optimization based on how you sail. -
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Posted: Feb 25, 2022 - 11:46 AM
mmmm I think these boats were mostly sold as "class" boats, meaning they all had the same specs and hardware give or take a spinnaker as an add on from the dealer.
your beam and my beam have pretty similar hardware on it
you look like you had a spin and barberhaulers at one point - prob stock as these boats had a pretty good racing fleet status in canada, florida and france if i recall
the 5.0 had a skeg version (family fun) that probably didn't come with a spin but the 4.7 was the same spin boat that the 6.0 was, just in mini
What has happened. is mysteres have been customized for the owners uses (cruise, family, or race style)
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