Hi CC,
To rig with items you have:
See if you can take the two top pressings of the bridle with the holes lining up on top of each other, set them in the slot in the lower end of the furler and put a pin through. Hopefully it works together with the old jib you have. If the multistrand wire is thick enough it could work for the time being. What thickness is it?
As Edchris pointed out, a modern jib is zippered and hoisted before each sailing session.
Edited by revintage on Aug 29, 2022 - 12:30 PM.
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Brgds
Lars
Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler
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Storing of Nacra 5.2
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Posted: Aug 29, 2022 - 12:29 PM
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Posted: Aug 29, 2022 - 07:56 PM
Some concrete questions for you all:
1) The boat came with a bowsprit. Is the bowsprit perhaps necessary to rig the boat "properly"?
2) How tight should the side stays be while the boat is not in use?
3) How tight should the stays be when I want to go sailing?
4) First time owning a cat, should the mast turn almost 90 degrees while sailing? This got me in trouble one time as the spreaders got in the way of the jib switching sides during a tack.
5) Pin at the bottom of the mast that acts as a safety for the mast staying in the ball, should I leave that pin generally in or out? (currently out)
First thing's first, holy hell these catamaran's are fun!! I only had it out in a light breeze, but managed to get it up to 13 kilometers per hour. Can't wait to get it more sideways and use the trapeze.
I appreciate everyone's input. I admit I have no idea what boat I have, and seem more confused with some posts, but I hope we can get to the bottom of it with your help.
I just looked at the paperwork that came with the boat and there's a boat survey done in 2010 on the boat. It says it's a 1989 Nacra 5.2. Boat length of 17.06 feet and 8 feet width. These could be just standard measurements. The serial number is the generic "SSSSSS" I mentioned earlier.
Currently am not by the boat so can't inspect the the wire in the furler, only have pictures of how I have it rigged at the moment. The wire can be seen at the eyelet, is that enough to make a judgment call whether that wire is strong enough?
The boat came with 2 sets of bridles. 1 short and 1 long pair.
Regarding your message Lars, the real forestay I have (the white one alluded to in the previous posts) is short, and can't reach either set of bridles even when mounted on the lowest mounting point here:
Mounting that forestay higher (where I've been told it should be) will make it even shorter and not allow it to reach either set of bridles.
The other jib I have looks like it would be hoistable, however can't seem to find the right forestay to hoist it on. Will take pictures of the other sails on the weekend.
The way the current furler/system is mounted is there was this piece of wire that (that was already there) that I attached the furled sail to (supported by my finger in the picture), and then see below what the bottom of the furling reaches. Using the shackles seen, everything is "just right" for forestay tightness.
Edited by canadian_catamaran on Aug 29, 2022 - 09:00 PM. -
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Posted: Aug 29, 2022 - 09:03 PM
Just a couple brief points- don’t anyone hack on me, I’ve been up 36 hours & am currently on the Other Side of the World.
In the post above, 2nd from bottom photo- the boom less boAts are self rotating, that is NOT your case. See the “wishbone”, sitting just be,on your boom? You require a line from the end of that wishbone to the boom, to control mast rotation, otherwise the mast WILL over rotate. Going to weather, with mast fully rotated will not provide an smooth entry for the wind over the sail. It’s a simple short line, that will cleat somewhere on the boom. It will be at least a 2:1, dead end the line in the cleat, go through the end of the rotator, then back to the clamcleat where you will secure it. Less rotation going to weather, more when down wind. Not sure if I have a phot of it on my H18.
4th phot from the bottom - ditch the two shackles you have on the bridal wires, they serve no purpose. Simply attach the bridals directly to the U shackle on the bottom of the drum. I would replace that one with a bow shackle, they are designed specifically to hold the horizontal loads, the shackle you have is designed for vertical loads.
Regarding the mast pin- REMOVE IT after you have stepped the mast. It’s so,e purpose is to hold the mast captive, so it doesn’t jump off the ball while raising or lowering the mast.
Also, look closely at these two photos. Notice that with the pin installed, you WILL bend your DS rod if you lower the mast & forgot to keep it ROTATED 90* while lowering. Sharp eyed folks will also notice my dumbass mistake…I didn’t have the pin handy, used a 1/4” bolt, BUT, I rotated the mast the wrong way, & could not remove the bolt without lifting the mast again. In this case, end of season, I used bolt cutters…think about the orientation of the pin, & if you use something long, like a screwdriver, be careful it doesn’t rip the tramp.
Ignore the rotator in my photo, on a boom less boat it goes forward, yours will be toward the stern.
https://www.thebeachcats.…pictures?g2_itemId=76385
https://www.thebeachcats.…pictures?g2_itemId=76385
You seem to have a lot of hardware at the mainsail down haul. Some may be for adjusting sail tension while underway, & from either side of the biat. You are just starting out, endorse the KISS principle. Just use a simple block arrangement, with an “S” hook. Simply drop the S into the sail cringle, pull line to desired tension & go sailing.
https://www.thebeachcats.…ictures?g2_itemId=119565
Forget about the bowsprit, S for a spinnaker setup, leave it behind for now.
Boards- yes, they are more efficient than the skeg hulls, & volumns have been written about their use. In a nutshell, full down while going to weather, 1/2 way when reaching, up when going downwind. My advice, your not racing, yet, set them halfway & forget about them, concentrate on correctly setting your sails. Do Not, Ever, forget about them when coming to shore, or in shallows. Mark them with a piece of tape to show when they are flush with the hull bottom. If you hit something, at any speed, it’s the catamaran equivalent of the Exxon Valdez.
Find a copy of Catamaran Racing For the 90’s. I have one somewhere, (I think I lent it out). I’ll try to find it & get it to you.
Where in Ontario are you, I have a bow shackle, (along with tons of legacy Nacra parts)I can mail you.
Edited by Edchris177 on Aug 29, 2022 - 09:46 PM.
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Posted: Aug 29, 2022 - 09:47 PM
Thank you. I am fully embracing the KISS principle and want to keep it as simple as I can but also prevent damage to the boat
Agreed about needing to get a bow shackle for the front.
All configurations seen on the boat are as I bought it from the previous owner. Agreed the downhaul seems complex for what it is
I will make some changes this upcoming long weekend and report back. Thank you for the offer for parts, sent you a private message, located in Ottawa and coming to Toronto in a few weeks. -
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Posted: Aug 31, 2022 - 04:54 PM
Hi CC,
Nice to see you are up and running!
A quick look on your latest images says you must have the mainsail tack and bolt rope in the luff groove and also have the downhaul symmetrical on both sides of the boom gooseneck. Fix this ASAP.
Have you checked the diameter of the multi strand "fore stay". No prob in light wind though so don´t worry yet.
Edchris have given you the tools for making it all work, but about the main downhaul make it 8:1 to make it trimable. About jib downhaul it must also be easy adjustable, but I can´t see how you have arranged it.
I can not see how the downhaul should be complex on your boat, except that you have attached it wrong
.
How do you check and adjust rig tension? I usually go for 100kg tension on the shrouds on the 5.5 and F18, but you can probably go a lot lower.
Edited by revintage on Aug 31, 2022 - 05:01 PM.
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Brgds
Lars
Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1192604934176635
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Posted: Sep 05, 2022 - 03:22 PM
Hey all I'm back, with more questions, and maybe answers?
Main sail placed into the luff groove, thank you.
Downhaul requires more work but it was good enough for this session.
I have 2 more sails not pictured, one is another jib, with a zipper through the front edge, presumably for hoisting up over the jib. The other one is a gennaker which we can look at next season :)
In the next picture my left hand is the "real" forestay. You can see the thickness of the one rigged poking out from underneath the sail attaching to the shackle and it's smaller. So I guess we've concluded that the "real" forestay (in my hand here) is the real one, which brings us full circle to the beginning of the thread. The forestay is the thick wire with the white plastic sheathing in my left hand, but it's too short to reach the longest bridles, even when mounted at the lowest point on the mast.
Question 1, do I need a new fore stay?
Bringing back an earlier picture, with the forestay mounted at the lowest attachment point (not the central cluster where the trapeze hooks up to, but that additional mounting point from earlier in the thread), I'm short by a lot. Here I connected the longest bridles and that forestay, and I was short by almost a foot.
"real" forestay in my hand is about the same thickness as the bridles, further indicating that the forestay in the furled sail isn't the right one.
Question 2Should my wishbone be mounted above the boom as opposed to below? There is nothing except the cleat at the top of the boom where I tried to mount it with the red rope, but not very well. More guidance on how to do this would be welcome. I've tried looking at a few youtube videos of people sailing the boat and noticed the wishbone was above the boom.
Question 3 I'm struggling a lot to get a proper tack going when I'm going from beam reach to beam reach and turning into the wind. I'm able to accomplish this in my Tanzer 7.5 much easier that in the Nacra.
I was however successful from going to close hauled to close hauled.
Any pointers on conducting a proper tack?
Question 4Should my main sail be higher up, near the top of the mast? It starts getting hella hard to hoist it up there, even when I try to point into the wind to de-power it. How far up should it go?
Thanks again all for your help. Having a grand time even though it may not be rigged just right! -
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Posted: Sep 05, 2022 - 06:02 PM
Marko, It would be very helpful (just a suggestion) if you would create your own album and add pictures there. Then you can add the pictures in the post. Third party image hosts (imgur) don't stay around and can be a problem years later when others seek help and they are no longer there.
I can see going forward that there will be a lot of pictures yet to come.
https://www.thebeachcats.…ms/pictures-in-forum-faq
https://www.thebeachcats.…ures-in-forum-faq#Adding
Please add your signaturehttps://www.thebeachcats.…/Forums/Forum-Signatures
Here is my album which shows the downhaul and other stuff, and will answer a lot of questions just by looking at the pictures . . .
https://www.thebeachcats.…a853a56b484f22346b2e33ee
The mainsail will hook to the top of the mast and the entire sail bolt rope goes inside the mast track. You've got it wrong. I will let the others dive in and help you with the details, but most of this has been answered and discussed before and the search function is your friend.
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Philip
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Posted: Sep 06, 2022 - 06:07 AM
As Philip says, looking at pictures will help you a lot and he has plenty of helpful stuff in his album. And remember Google is your friend.
1 Yes, use a decent jib and get rid of the furler and the blue jib! What condition is the zippered one in? You might also take look on the jib sheeting points as they seem very far out to the sides. Also clean up the forestay and bridle from all those shackles.
2 The mast rotator(wishbone) must be over the boom and used together with the camcleat and the stainless bracket to adjust rotation. Simple and straight forward: Attach the red line close to the clamcleat go through the bracket to a single block attached to the rotator and back the same way to the clamcleat.
At the same time you have to fix the downhaul so that you have 4 parts and two blocks on each side of the boom and get rid of the messy shackles. A simple line loop through the tack with the two joined blocks on each side is all that is needed.
4 The main must be hoisted to the TOP, otherwise there is not enough room between tack and boom to use the downhaul properly. When hoisting you can neither have the downhaul coupled nor the clew attached to boom.
Unfortunately your mast seem to have an ancient system where you lock the halyard at the bottom. As Philip points out you should add the common hook and ring system that all cat masts have nowadays. It shouldnt be hard to find a new top fitting´and hook from a 5.5 plus ring on ebay.
As seen in your image you don´t seem to have been able to use the downhaul at all. Probably you should also add some prebend with help of the diamonds and spreaders.
Must ask, is the mast joined from two pieces just under the rotator?
Hope this helps on your way to fix up your Pocket Rocket. It absolutely has good potential.
Edited by revintage on Sep 06, 2022 - 07:46 AM.
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Brgds
Lars
Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler
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Posted: Sep 06, 2022 - 11:11 AM
What does the top of your mast look like?
Those legacy 5.2s used two different systems of hooking the mainsail.
Go to item 52 in the assembly manual. If you have the “fork”, about 2’ down from the top, & on the front of the mast, you MUST use a halyard with wire & ball for the top section.
I don’t know of any Nacras that used a bottom cleat for tension, unless you do not have an original Nacra mast.
The zippered jib is what the factory used, they are simple to put up.
Personally, I would never give up my jib furler, especially if you single hand the boat. I have it on all 4 Cats, even the Baby Dart.
Your Question 3 - you’ve discovered tacking from close hauled works better. Cats have long hulls, that need to be twisted through the water, they don’t tack nearly as well as pivoting a shallow hull around a centreboard. Remember, When going from beam reach, you are moving into close hauled position, then through the eye of wind. Try this - as you head up from beam reach, pull the sail in, matching sail trim to wind, (as you would if sailing close hauled). This will keep the sail driving, right up to closehauled. LEAVE THE JIB ALONE, don’t release it until it’s back winded, & pushing the bows around.
Yes, the forestay is the same diameter wire as the side stays, & both attach to the same place on upper mast hound.
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Posted: Sep 06, 2022 - 04:40 PM
I have checked the mast top images and the fitting is the wire and ball version(same as 5.7), but with a line all the way.
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Lars
Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
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Posted: Sep 06, 2022 - 07:39 PM
Okay, CC. If your mast is as Lars said, you MUST use a wire with swaged ball for the top portion of your mainsail halyard.
Sail goes into the luff track, the halyard goes up the track, over the two sheaves at the top, then down, ON THE FRONT OF THE MAST.
Raise the sail, until the ball gets just below the “fork” on the front of the mast. Then move the halyard in against the mast, aligned so the wire in in the fork. Release halyard, the ball is captive in the fork. Stow halyard in pocket. Tension sail via the means I showed in the photo above.
To release, undo the Down haul, pull the halyard enough to move the ball slightly down from the fork. Move the halyard outwards, so the ball won’t re- engage,then allow the sail to slide down the track.
It is a simplele & foolproof system. If you have to store & launch your boat without being able to turn it into the wind, this is vastly preferred over the hook.
My Cats are stored on modified Seadoo lifts, & can’t be turned. Even with the sail against the shrouds, it is easy to raise, or lower. Not so with the H18, & worse with the Dart.
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Posted: Sep 07, 2022 - 04:22 AM
The fork can be seen about 50 cm down on front of the mast.
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Lars
Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
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Posted: Sep 07, 2022 - 10:42 AM
Yes, good catch. It appears he is missing the front sheave, which means he cannot raise the sail properly until it’s replaced.
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Posted: Sep 07, 2022 - 12:17 PM
Hi Ed,
Found the image on internet, not CCs mast, just to show how the system works. To bad the sheave wasn´t there.
Checked my 5.5 rear beams and the same hook is used for setting the distance between the hulls
.
About the rope/wire halyard, do you know who makes/sells them?
Edited by revintage on Sep 07, 2022 - 12:25 PM.
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Brgds
Lars
Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler
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Posted: Sep 07, 2022 - 02:42 PM
All, thank you for the input.
Noted about the mast rotator, I think I see it now.
Album added to my profile where I'll post all the old pictures.
1) Regarding the forestay, I am still asserting that what my boat came with, the forestay is too short, unless I get what would be at least a 12" stay adjuster. I have no other parts that came with the boat. Previous owner looks like he just used the furled sail with the smaller forestay that's integrated with that. Does anyone have a measurement of the length of their forestay? (Edit I guess it's about the length of the furled sail with forestay I have).
I guess I could just get a new forestay to do this properly. Bringing this image back from an earlier post, there is this random 10 inch splice of a stay on the main cluster right above the blue circle. I put a block on it (ignore that), but maybe that was used to extend the forestay to try and reach from 2 owners ago?
2) Regarding the main halyard, the boat did also not come with a wire/rope combo with a ball to hoist the main. I am also about 95% sure there is no clip at the front of the mast to clip a ball into. Here is the only picture I have of the top of the mast. There is something there, but it doesn't look like a clip for a ball. As an engineer all I care is that it's safe/doesn't break. What would be the safety/structural issue with using just a rope as I am now? I realize I am creating some extra stress into the mast by hoisting it and keeping the halyward taught down the front, but is this something I should look into replacing with the wire/ball combo?
- I don't think so but will verify
Watched some youtube videos on tacking in cat and I think I can figure it out now. I was stalling out by turning the rudder too much. Have to let the jib back fill and power up the main in a close reach before making it through the track.
Unfortunately I won't be with the boat until next weekend. I will take much more detailed pictures.
Edited by canadian_catamaran on Sep 07, 2022 - 03:52 PM. -
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Posted: Sep 08, 2022 - 05:31 AM
No need to, the image above is good enough. The fork is missing and you must have one. A rope halyard is to springy and is not good in combination with the mast bending due to the high sheet and downhaul tension. When the mast bends the halyard looses tension.
About the "short" forestay, it could as well be that your non original bridle wires are to short! In Australia where the 5.2 main beam is 2400mm long, the bridle wires are 3' 11 1/2".
We are all here to help you to get rid of all the homemade solutions from the previous owner.
Edited by revintage on Sep 08, 2022 - 06:37 PM.
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Brgds
Lars
Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler
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Posted: Sep 08, 2022 - 01:52 PM
We are all here to help you to get rid of all the homemade solutions from the previous owner.Edited by revintage on Sep 08, 2022 - 06:08 AM. [/quote]
The beauty of buying a used boat...
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Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC
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Posted: Sep 08, 2022 - 07:25 PM
So hyptothetically I'd need at least:
The hook on the mast and a way to mount it
The new halyard with ball
A simpler downhaul.
Perhaps new bridles and/or new forestay.
After some breif googling, where would be the best place to buy this? -
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Posted: Sep 08, 2022 - 08:50 PM
The hook on the mast should be mounted with stainless steel rivets. There will be some load on it. Don't use the existing holes if they are routed out too much or if there is significant corrosion that would weaken the backing of the rivets.
You'll have to go to a rigger for the halyard with the ball. The ball is sometimes referred to as an aircraft fastener or nicopress ball and only a rigger will have the right kind of hydraulic roller press to get the ball on where it won't slip no matter how much downhaul pressure you have. You could cheap out and use a copper swedge instead and even do it yourself, but these have been known to slip. The boat I'm sailing now uses that method and has never slipped, but on a former boat it did and I had it replaced with the nicopress ball and it never did slip after that. Be absolutely sure you have the correct length of halyard between the ball and the thimble.
There are ways to lengthen the bridle and/or the forestay without buying new as long as you only have to lengthen them a little and you trust the existing ones. Not as good as new, but will save you a lot.
There are many ways to improve a down haul. Too many to comment on, but most important for you is to have enough purchase so it's not a physical effort to get the right tension.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Sep 10, 2022 - 02:28 PM
1 I have one but it is farfetched to send it from Sweden, maybe Edchris have one? Hobie will probably work perfect https://www.mariner-sails…/hobie-hook-halyard.html
2 https://www.ebay.com/itm/132008635767
3 The downhaul is exactly as it should. It is the junk sitting above the blocks that is wrong, exchange it for a loop of 6mm rope.
4. I gave you the measures, check if your wires are correct.
Edited by revintage on Sep 10, 2022 - 02:41 PM.
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Brgds
Lars
Frankentri 5.8/5.5/Inter20
Aerow trimaran foiler
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