18-2 was the first beach cat that I owned myself. Five or six boats and 23+ years later I have an N20C and just a little more experience than I did back then.
The idea of moving your weight forward is to let the wind pivot the boat because of increased drag on the bows, less on the stern. 18-2 should be easy to right and pivot. If you can't get it to spin, sit on the hull and put your legs in the water. In light air, not necessary, but in anything over 5, you'll need to get the boat to rotate. Remember to have your crew move forward as well, doesn't matter if you're up front, if they're in the back.
In 8-10+, once you get the bows into the wind, the boat will almost right itself.
I can tell you the the 20C is significantly harder to get to rotate. I've not flipped it myself, but every friend that I've let drive has.... more than once, lol. The bows are huge and very rounded, sitting with legs in the water is a must to get it upright.
I wouldn't carry an anchor, too much chance to punch a hole in a hull or get stuff really tangled up IMO.
Righting Question
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Posted: Apr 28, 2023 - 10:46 PM
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Posted: Apr 28, 2023 - 11:34 PM
Almost every cat in our group (7 or 8 mysteres, a few g-cats, a few supercats, a prindle or 2) all carried anchors for my 10 years of saiing with that crew, I never saw a hull get damaged.
now it does require being secured well with a bungee or strap and the anchor line needs to be managed well or it will fall in the drink, and pay out if you are not careful. what a drag!
back on sept 12th 2001 our buddies (Zack and Mikey) learned a big lesson. While the entire USA and 1/2 the world was in shock over the horrors of the day before, they went out sailing. they were the only people out. No sailboats, no power boats, and i think the CoastGaurd /FWWC were mostly on high alert and not doing regular patrols. they sailed all day. Around dusk as they came back into hurricane pass (a mile from the beach) they both came in-board and watched the mast fall over. something had came loose on the stay aloft and they didn't realize they (being double trapped out) were keeping the mast up. No paddles, no water, no cellphones nor radios, no sunscreen, no anchor (but they had beer). We get strong tides in the pass and the tide sucked them back out into the gulf. they spent a cold night wrapped up in a jibs and main. (Possibly) The only reason they made it back was a shrimp boat was coming in early to miss a storm/baby hurricane, spotted them and towed them home.
I was in a local sailing shop the next day (possibly a few days later) when Zack came in and told me the story. After that day i made sure i always had the things he didn't. Water, sunscreen, paddle, and anchor. Only time any of us sailed without an anchor was during a race when there were chase boats and every ounce of extra weight was definatly the reason you didn't win the race.... - ymmv -
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Posted: Apr 29, 2023 - 09:05 AM
Okay thanks, that's another vote (along with MN3) for a 4-pound anchor being sufficient, and the kind with flukes (and zhopper points out the 2.9lb Fortress). Think I'll probably go for a cheapo of same fluke design, but these are the kind of opinions/info I enjoy getting on here. Don't want to carry any more than minimum effective size/weight. My spot right behind the mast is already taken up with my tramp pocket, filled to bulging with righting line, so I'd have to attach the bag with anchor in it more to the side.
Still, thinking maybe I'll test out a drogue 1st. But have been in situations where having an anchor would've been really valuable even with no capsize involved. Like the time got becalmed and the current/tide was pulling us out the harbor mouth towards a fishing fleet and even worse the big commercial shipping lanes with the massive container ships, tankers, etc. That was one sh*t feeling sitting there basically helpless. Don't feel like repeating it.
Edited by CatFan57 on Apr 29, 2023 - 12:05 PM.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: Apr 29, 2023 - 10:27 AM
Yes. I can recount a couple of similar situations, one of which involved a de-masting that involved getting blown into an oyster encrusted seawall. I won't go into the gory details. One thing that is very problematic with small cats is how do you bow anchor unless you are in very shallow water, like to set up the boat for instance, or like MN3 suggest, to turn the bows into the wind to facilitate easier righting. In the latter case, presumably the rode is tied to the mast step and since you're in the water it's no big deal to move the rode to the bow and put it through a carabiner or similar device but always leave the bitter end tied otherwise you could find out what "bitter end" really means! But assuming you just want to anchor for whatever other reason, and it's too deep to get off the boat? The only thing I can see is having the anchor stowed right behind the mast step as mentioned before, and having the rode go through a bullet block at one of the bows and then back to the mast step where it's tied off. Of course, this will be too much clutter for most of us. A few cats have front tramps, like Hobie Getaway, Hobie 21SC and G-Cats. With them, no problem. Most of the time however, I choose to sail my G-Cat without the front tramp so I would be curious to know if there's any other way. There are certainly pros and cons about front tramps but that's a whole other thread. One more thing, the stock on a danforth style anchor has pretty rough ends that could damage your tramp. You can round them off on a grinder and it won't compromise the performance of the anchor.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
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Posted: Apr 29, 2023 - 09:15 PM
I do something like that: a separate line goes from the mast step, through the center of the bowfoil, and back to the mast step. Both ends end in a carabiner at the mast step, so i can remove either of them: the lower one for the anchor line or the upper one for towing the boat (that part of the line goes in front and above the bowfoil dolphin striker). At the bow foil there is a knot, the line doesn’t run through. The anchor line is tied at the mast step too, but has a second carabiner at the right position to attach the end of the line described. (Hope my English is good enough…) I through the anchor first and then deal with the carabiners. Its a bit more complicated than I’d wish but if I get confused I may also use the line as a guide for the anchor carabiner, and manually push it forward part of the way. -
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Posted: Apr 29, 2023 - 09:21 PM
The double function is what makes it complex, but setting a line for towing is actually the hardest to achieve in my case, with the bow foil. So judge with that in mind.. -
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Posted: May 01, 2023 - 04:53 PM
CATAMARAN ANCHOR OR DROGUE LINE RIGGING/STOWAGE, WITH OR WITHOUT A BRIDLE, TO BE CARRIED ONBOARD WHILE SAILING
Sorry, I had to be away from this thread for a couple days, but I made the above mini-heading because I'm glad to see this discussion came around to how to rig/run/stow lines for use with an anchor or drogue, possibly with or without a bridle, cuz that's what I've been thinking about. Was thinking maybe I should have made this the start of a new thread, but posted the mini-heading instead.
I'm wondering what kind of bridle arrangement you use and how you store it to be used when you want to deploy and clip your drogue line to the bridle. I mean, I understand the idea of a bridle consisting of two lines of equal length, each attached to a bow tang on the right and left and meeting in the middle. But are you leaving this arrangement in place connected to the bow tangs while you're sailing? And if so, how are you keeping it out of the way and not dragging, etc.? Or maybe you're keeping your bridle in your drogue bag along with the drogue and deploying them both at the same time?
MN3, were you using some type of bridle arrangement for your onboard anchor, or just paying it out from a single attachment point someplace, like at/near the base of the mast where your anchor was stored? It sounds like whatever arrangement you had always worked for you anytime you capsized or otherwise needed it.
Sounds like maybe you're not using a bridle with the anchor(?? not sure). I'm not really following Andinista's description because I don't know what a bow foil is.
Btw MN3, I posted my post about wishing I had an anchor when I was getting involuntarily sucked out of the harbor to the ocean before even seeing your incredible story about the friends who got dismasted, sucked out to the gulf and forced to spend a cold night wrapped in sails with no coast guard active the day after 9/11. Wow, what a story! That's the kind of experience I was having visions of while taking my "free ride" out to the ocean (add in possibly getting run over in the day or night by a commercial vessel - although I would've been able to call the coast guard, not that I want to rely on that as an out). Excellent safety point too:
However, I have to point out you omitted beer.
Edited by CatFan57 on May 01, 2023 - 06:08 PM.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: May 01, 2023 - 07:27 PM
A single attachment point will cause your boat to dance around and very likely to try to sail away and risk your anchor to fail (unseat itself from the seafloor). You need a bridal setup on a catamaran. We would drill holes in our bows, refill the holes with epoxy and redrill a little smaller so no water can creep in and compromise anything.
Beer takes up a lot of room in a cooler, requires lots of ice, adds a bunch of weight, makes you piss a lot and personally gives me headaches. RUM on the other hand requires a lot less ice, weight, room, you pee less often and did not give me headaches unless .... well you know .... plus pirates drink rum, not beer and thanks to Johnny Depp - chicks dig pirates (see image below for proof) - ymmv
Edited by MN3 on May 01, 2023 - 07:49 PM. -
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Posted: May 01, 2023 - 07:36 PM
I had 2 different types of front tramps (used on both my mysteres) that held my anchor (after simply using a small duffle bag attached to the beam/hiking strap for years)
both of my front tramps used a pole to avoid drooping and to work optimally - top pic is actually a CF windsurfer mast top section.
Homemade mesh front tramp - anchor, rightingbag and drybag would fit on there perfectly - no windage
you can see the anchor line is actually running from the bows back to the front beam. I had a plastic snap shackle that would capture a loop in anchor line to have it handy and easy to deploy (mostly to prevent it from dragging and paying out while underway)
custom made front tramp (from Sunrise yacht co.) with pockets above (for anchor) and below (for righting bag). In this image you can just see the tramp with the anchor sticking out it's pocket. My spin pole tip is utilizing the holes in the bow - anchor is attached to the bow tangs - not optimal but I did that for many years, only had to replace 2 of the bow tangs (aka both) over the years (one was pre spin pole) both times there was a good deal of corrosion and i doubt the anchor line (and associated tugging in wind/waves) were to blame, but still not optimal
Edited by MN3 on May 01, 2023 - 07:47 PM. -
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Posted: May 01, 2023 - 08:03 PM
Here's a great YouTube video about the subject: https://youtu.be/K7h5X-tanfI -
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Posted: May 01, 2023 - 11:55 PM
I am not a fan...
This guy said:
"grappnle anchor"? -
double the depth for anchor rode - pass on that advice
"I don't know if i have ever anchored a catamaran" - this i believe
adding a line to the bridal / forestay will load up many points of your rig, ( bow bridals, mast tang and side-stays tangs and every fitting in-between as well. and since a H16 relies on the jib halyard for tension when the jib is up ... you are working (stretching)your jib as well with every wave, - I would pass on that location to reeve your anchor line - ymmv
"Scope is the ratio of the length of deployed anchor rode to the height of the bow chock above the seabed. The greater the scope the more horizontal the pull on the anchor, and the better it will hold. Pegging 10:1 as the maximum practical scope, the table shows the average relative holding power associated with shorter scope."
https://www.boatus.com/ex…3%2F8%22%20nylon%20rope. -
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Posted: May 02, 2023 - 02:13 PM
I thought I was done with this one but then I saw the video and I just can't leave it be. What ever happened to simple is better? When I saw the video my first thought was if you follow that guy's advice, you're to see your boat where you don't want it. Way out there! Once you're sure the anchor is dug in you could shorten the scope up a little for convenance, but 2 to 1? Let's get realistic. Most all the time, if you feel a need to carry an anchor for emergencies, when you need it, your boat's going to be laying on its side. You'll be in the water or on the hull and you'll have to get the rode through a clip attached at the bow. Forget the bridle, it's a moot point in this circumstance. And nine times out of ten you won't have to bother anyway, only if you're drifting to somewhere you don't want to be before you get the boat righted. Two experienced adults should be able to right the boat quickly. Using an anchor for a mooring in shallow water while you set the boat up is no big deal. If you're out there and want to stop for a while, say to put your harness on, all you have to do is backwind the jib, let your main out all the way and fix your rudders hard alee and your boat will just sit there. One more thing, if you do anchor, always use three strand nylon as small as diameter you're comfortable with. The stretchiness will absorb shock and help prevent the anchor from breaking loose.
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Bill Townsend
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Posted: May 02, 2023 - 05:59 PM
100%
BTW: we island hop all day every day. Also barrier island hop (look up 3 Rooker and Anclote Key). It is critical to have an anchor in these locations because 1. there may be 10000 boats and no room to pull up on a beach, or on an island it may be rocky beaches or the only way to get in the lea is with an anchor -
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 08:19 AM
I sail on the sea and the surf is dangerous everywhere but at the launching spot, so there’s plenty of “opportunity” to use the anchor. I’m not concerned about the stress on the boat if I attach it to the forestay bridles (or bowfoil in my case), because I will use it very occasionally, hopefully never. I’m sure that it takes more beating with regular sailing, but yes, if I used it often I’d probably do it differently. I think the key is to have the line properly stored in a (mesh) bag and easily accessible on the tramp, pre-set as much as possible. But also I don’t intend that it catches me too close to the surf, so I don’t approach to it. My concern is not so much capsizing but dismasting, rudder failure or something like that. Also being unable to right the boat fast enough. But if the distance is safe, the first attempt to right will probably be before throwing the anchor. Righting with two people on board is easy, I agree, but one of them might be left behind, that happens. I sail solo very often and have a righting pole, but things may get complicated anyway, I’ve sailed for a few decades and I’ve had many incidents, so I don’t take anything for granted, neither the anchor, its just my seat belt. I also carry a cell pone on my pdf and other safety measures and routine checks. What concerns me the most is whether the anchor will really hold the boat far enough from the surf.. it worked where i tested it but who knows. Other that that I should stay home, anyway.
Edited by Andinista on May 03, 2023 - 08:23 AM. -
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 08:29 AM
Also, the one left behind might be me.. I teach my crew to through the anchor but I don’t expect him/her to right the boat and rescue me.
Edited by Andinista on May 03, 2023 - 05:07 PM. -
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 05:01 PM
Thanks, I can see why drilling attachment holes in the bows would get your bridle attachment points as far out front as possible to cause the boat to behave well on anchor, plus keep the bow tangs from doing double duty and absorbing stresses related to the anchor. I appreciate the photo detail [referring to the next photo after this, actually] and see what I believe are your bridle lines running from the tramp forward towards the attachment points on the bows. It looks like you keep them in that position while sailing, and I assume you do not have any problems with the jib sheets catching on them? I would've thought that could be a problem.
Edited by CatFan57 on May 03, 2023 - 06:06 PM.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 05:10 PM
So now i have a better idea why pirates drank rum. You actually caused me to look that up and that was a whole interesting story in itself - made from fermented molasses, which was a product of the sugar plantations in Brazil and the Caribbean, and easier for ships to carry than wine or beer. Didn't know that.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 05:18 PM
Excellent details shown in the pictures, thanks for sharing these. Even though your anchor lines in the second photo are attached to the bow tangs rather than the holes at the bow tips, it looks like they are way down low and presumably well out of way of any loose or flopping jib sheets that potentially get away from you temporarily (in answer to my question above).
I really admire how you fitted out your boat for serious and fun cruising and exploration of the islands, bays and gulf you sail in. That looks like a really purpose built setup with a good amount of thought put into it, my compliments.
Edited by CatFan57 on May 03, 2023 - 06:22 PM.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 05:40 PM
I can see why when you're lying on your side and want to deploy an anchor you've got some issues to deal with aside from having a nice bridle setup in place. In fact, having an anchor zipped in a bag strapped down on top of the tramp behind the mast is presumably gonna involve some real maneuvering around to get it unstrapped, unzipped and deployed. I'm guessing that's probably why MN3 has his anchor in a bag on the underside of the tramp to give easier access when capsized and standing on a hull.
Edited by CatFan57 on May 03, 2023 - 06:41 PM.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 05:59 PM
Thanks for posting the link to the picture of your bowfoil. Now I understand what that is. Agreed that ideally you have everything pre-set and easily accessible. I'm sailing solo mostly, which obviously can present a righting problem with an 18' boat, so that's why I got this thread going. Since you sail regularly in the ocean and often by yourself, you obviously must have a lot of experience getting/being prepared. And getting carried into the surf doesn't sound too appealing - although potentially getting carried out to sea when dismasted or with broken rudders sounds worse.
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1998 P18.2
Sailing out of SHBCC, NJ
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