I am considering mounting a cheapo hand winch on my trailer to assist with pulling the boat back on to the trailer. I've been brute-forcing it, which works fine unless the ramp is slippery, as is often the case.
With no good purchase at the front of the boat, do you think there would be any drawback to riveting a bridle on to the front crossbar (like the one on the back), for this purpose?
P16 - installing bridle on front crossbar
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 11:51 AM
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 01:43 PM
A bridle on the front would be more efficient and easier to keep the hulls on the rollers or what have you. However....I know the P16 has rails, are there hefty steel back up bars under those rails to support the existing bridle and forestay? A single screw pad eye either at the top or bottom of the bolts would give you solid places to tie your bridle. It helps to have your winch about 18 inches higher than the boat so it pulls up a little as well.
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Bill Townsend
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 02:32 PM
Rails?
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 02:37 PM
I should have said pad eye, not bridle. I've seen those terms interchanged.
Was thinking about a pad eye riveted directly to the front cross bar, like the one on the back used for the end of the mainsheet. -
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 03:27 PM
Rather than drill into your crossbar, why not use a removable nylon webbing bridle that attaches around the crossbar next to the hulls on each side?
Use a 12' piece of webbing, tie or sew a loop in one end to capture the crossbar and put D rings on the other side to do the same.
On the tied end, just pass the loop around the crossbar then thread the other end through the loop.
Connect your winch to the center of this webbing and viola! Start yer Wench!
The tramp will hold the webbing in place at the ends of the crossbar.
Don't forget to gas it in the corners.
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 03:31 PM
Could work but not optimal. Alum rivets and alum beams are not that strong. You can pull out or shear the rivet pretty easily. Cleats fail this way. I would not recommend steel rivets due to corrosion but if you use tef-gel or lanicote should be ok
You could create a very large (temp) bridal by looping a rope around the entire tramp area on each
Side of the cat and connect that to your winch line -
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 03:51 PM
Two great minds, one great suggestion.
I'm tipping a beer to you, my friend!
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 04:26 PM
I agree, if riveted to the front of the beam it will most likely be pulled out. If it's a steel rivet it's probably the beam that will fail rather than the rivet.
My tramp (not a P16) has a grommet very close to the mast step, I have a loop of line around the front beam at the mast step for that purpose. I attach two hooks to that loop, the one from the winch and another one from a line attached to center of the trailer, about a meter or so behind the front beam. So I attach the winch hook, pull the boat in almost all the way, then hook the other line and pull more until both lines get the desired tension. I then drive a very short distance (two blocks), so I skip the tie downs.
Edited by Andinista on May 03, 2023 - 04:28 PM. -
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 04:35 PM
Let's keep it simple. Put the boat on the trailer backwards. You'll need a mast support bolted to the trailer tounge (I didn't see one in the pic) and you'll mount the winch on that just a little above the height of the boat, so it lifts a little when you're cranking it up. Problem solved. Doing it this way has the added bonus of making it so much easier when you step the mast alone because the mast can function as your second person. By the way, that's the coolest looking P16 I've ever seen!
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Bill Townsend
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 04:48 PM
Apparently not possible on the P16 but on other boats there is some room between the inner side of the hull and the tramp edge, and you can set a loop of line around the beam. I do that, using an eyestrap riveted underneath the beam, to prevent the loop from pulling against the tramp. I originally used it to attach a bridle but not anymore, today it sees other uses: I run the rear traps shock cord through blocks attached there, under the tramp. I also attach the beach wheel line there, and also the shock cord to prevent jib sheet jamming. -
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 04:53 PM
Also consider rollers at the rear trailer crossbar -
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Posted: May 03, 2023 - 05:14 PM
[quote=Andinista]
I like the grommet/line around the crossbar idea, and I do have rollers on the trailer. Easy and will work fine - thanks for the idea.
The boat in the pic IS super cool looking, but not mine (if that was the assumption). I considered trailering backwards, but if the mast falls, I'd rather it fall away from my vehicle.
thanks for the ideas.
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Posted: May 09, 2023 - 05:18 PM
I have same issue loading my modified 18-2. I built a bridle with eyes and use large soft shackles around the front crossbeam to attach. I have a 6:1 block and tackle to use. I originally used a single point around the mast base, but the boat would tend to "wonder" as it's being pulled forward. The bridle helps keep her straight. Mostly in the transition of when the bows are airborne and almost down on the front cradles. I use V-shaped cradles on the trailer and spray the bottom with soap. It isn't ideal, but I can't stand the idea of the single point of rollers. I've done too many bottom repairs. I have also worked on a design that would drop the cross bars down onto beach wheels and vise versa. You would have to make sure the arms are pinned to brackets for travels.
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Posted: May 26, 2023 - 09:02 PM
The best setup I have ever seen is dual rollers on the back crossbar and astroturf lined fiberglass cradles in the front. The rollers were off center so that unloaded they fell back toward the boat in the water and were easy to hit. The astroturf lets all the water drain from against the fiberglas (as opposed to carpet trapping it) preventing soft spots.
The owner made a harness that fastened to the inside ends of the front crossbar and had a spliced loop in the center for wench attachment.
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Bob
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Posted: May 30, 2023 - 07:04 PM
Just tie the bitter end of your winch line to the dolphin striker and post and you're good to go.
I have done this many times and have also used my righting line and main sheet block and tackle to accomplish the same after a long hard day.
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John Schwartz
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Posted: May 31, 2023 - 12:34 PM
Tying to the dolphin striker seems to defy conventional wisdom, at least indicated by previous posts. It would
probably still be okay if your trailer was submerged enough so the load wasn't too great when cranking it up and keep the knot flush against the beam. However, if it were me, I would still use the bridle because it will spread the load and really isn't that much more work. I'm still a big proponent for trailering backwards. If you're concerned about the mast falling on your vehicle, just unhitch the trailer and move it before stepping the mast. Now I've always said you should have it hitched to the vehicle when mast stepping, but almost all of the additional weight will be between the trailer wheels and the tongue wheel so the chances of it tipping are zero assuming you have your boat tied to the trailer. I've seen a couple of sailors fashion a way to extend their mast support so they can "shoulder" the mast before they start the hard part. There's only one downside that I've experienced: Depending on the slope of your launch spot you may want to back down only so far as the wheel bearings aren't submerged. When taking your boat out of the water it requires much more effort to lift the transoms up and over the cradles or rollers than getting the bows started. So perhaps if you're in mast up storage, frontwards would be better.
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Bill Townsend
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Posted: May 31, 2023 - 04:59 PM
I took the lazy way out. My righting line is more than long enough, so I just untied its upper stopper knot and pulled some extra line through the grommet near the tramp pocket then retied the stopper knot (on top of the tramp). When I'm sailing the righting line sits in the pocket like normal. When it's time to pull it back on to the trailer, I just pull the end of the line back down through the grommet, tie a temporary bowline and hook the winch strap to that. Easy, works great.
My trailer is painted steel, so when launching, i only go as far as a couple of inches submerged below the wheel hub. Once I get the boat pointed at the rear rollers, it's minimal strain with the winch to wind it up. Well worth the small cost and small amount of effort to mount the winch.
-Matt
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