My boat has the old fashion main halyard that has a stop about 24 inches from the end that lays in a hooking device about 18 inches down from the top of the mast. This system is inferior to the kind that uses a steel ring with a twist shackle at the head of the sail but I'm stuck with it. My big gripe is every few years or so the old kind has to be replaced because broken strands will start appearing at the stop whether it be a steel ball, or a copper sleave. My question is this; The loaded part of the halyard is only 2 feet, so why couldn't I replace the entire halyard with quarter inch low stretch line? The "hook" that used to take the stop could be replaced with a clam cleat. The stretch on 2 feet of the right line couldn't be hardly anything and plus the load on it would be static. When the downhaul is pulled tight whatever tiny bit of stretch there is won't change.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Main halyard
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Posted: Sep 13, 2023 - 01:24 PM
You could potentially do that if you could come up with a decent and secure way of attaching the cam cleat to the front of the mast. The screw holes on the cleat (thinking Harken 150) are probably not going to line up well with the radiused leading edge of the mast, meaning you’re going to need to develop some kind of attaching bracket or adapter, and it’s going to be a large “hunk” of material sitting on the front of the mast, so not very streamlined. Plus those cleats only have a max working load of 300Lb, so not sure how long it would hold up to mainsheet and downhaul loads.
One benefit would be the ability to easily reef the sail.
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Posted: Sep 13, 2023 - 01:51 PM
Yes, I already thought of that, that's why I said "clam cleat" not "cam cleat", it's easy to get the two mixed up. The existing hook, or whatever you call it, is fastened by two stainless rivets and has never gotten loose. A clam cleat would be fastened the same way. I really doubt the load would be anywhere near 300 pounds, this is a small boat and the loaded part of the halyard has to go around two sheaves so there would be two 90 degree turns but I'm not sure how much that would reduce the actual load on the cleat.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Sep 13, 2023 - 03:10 PM
Didn’t pick up on the Clam Cleat. Yes, that would be a more streamlined option and probably less likely to fail than a cam cleat, since there are no moving parts. I actually don’t see a max working load for the CL211 cleat. But I suspect the main halyard load could be higher than you think once you start pulling on the mainsail with a 5:1 or 6:1 mainsheet upwind and a multi-purchase downhaul. You may run into a problem with the halyard getting wedged into the cleat so hard that you can’t pull it out.
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Posted: Sep 13, 2023 - 10:56 PM
Just going through a turning block (or two) doesn't change the load.
And it should go without saying to avoid the plastic clamcleats and stick with Al. -
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Posted: Sep 13, 2023 - 11:35 PM
We have that system in both the N5.0 & N5.7
The other issue is we is changing the sheaves at the mast head. Mine are for 1/8” wire, wouldn’t work very well with line that’s thick enough to be grabbed by the clam cleat.
They do make CCleats with a radiused base, I have one in the 5.0, mounted on the front of the mast.
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Posted: Sep 14, 2023 - 01:24 PM
Sounds like the hobie 16 style fork and bead. but not 100% certain that is what you mean.
I assume the fork is forward of the mast?
you could use a SpinLock instead of a cam cleat and not worry about it getting jammed. they are not loved by racers due to failure but i never had an issue with mine (used on the halyard when i reefed my 6.0, but that was not used much).
IF you wanted to also reef.... you are adding compression to your mast as you lower the sail and should be concidered. also a mast slug should be added to your sail head to keep if from pulling away from the mast
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Posted: Sep 14, 2023 - 06:29 PM
Are you sure that you are stuck with it? You can buy the hook and rivet it close the mast head, and add the ring. I guess the only critical detail would be the separation between the ring and and the hook.
I would be more concerned that the line doesn't slip or get jammed on the clam cleat if you use one. It will take some load, even if you don't crank the downhaul I think. If you add a hook and ring, it's still important to use a low stretch line, especially if the sail runs a bit tight on the mast track. The hardest part is when the sail is up and you want to hook or release the ring, if the line stretches you feel like working against a spring instead of moving the ring up.
Edited by Andinista on Sep 14, 2023 - 06:31 PM. -
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Posted: Sep 15, 2023 - 12:08 PM
Where can you buy the hook? The one I used to have was a substantial thing, with kind of a yoke that riveted to the mast. Simple enough, but what about the sheave? As you mentioned, the juxtaposition between the ring and the hook is critical and what I remember is a single sheave positioned back just a little so when hoisted all the way that ring would slide over it just right. Trying to find that piece that fits on top of the mast with that sheave might be difficult. I'm going to stick with what I've got for now. But what I will do is this; I've got an aluminum clam cleat and I'll bolt it to a 4 x 4 fence post. I've got some blocks that I can use to simulate the load that a down haul would make and that way I'll know if line slips or if it gets in there so tight it's hard to release.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Sep 15, 2023 - 03:57 PM
There are different models, Here for instance
https://www.murrays.com/product/56-6812/
I don’t know how different is your mast head, if the distance between the halyard and the mast is not too different and you can sacrifice a few cm or sail height, it might work. -
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Posted: Sep 15, 2023 - 04:07 PM
Replacing the mast head might not be a crazy idea, If you find the right one for your mast.
https://www.murrays.com/product/56-6902/ -
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Posted: Sep 16, 2023 - 09:23 AM
Murrays. Should've known. I think the my mast is the same extrusion as a H-16. I'll call them and ask about compatibility. They may have had this issue before. Thanks for the advice.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Sep 18, 2023 - 05:25 PM
If you do, I would suggest having the halyard tail run through fair leads down the mast. This will keep the halyard along the mast to prevent the mast from overbending.
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Posted: Sep 20, 2023 - 08:58 PM
Clam cleats are notoriously weak, and I personally would not risk the mainsail on one, or three for that matter. Dropping your main through a clam cleat backwards seems like a really frustrating and slow process too.
On the other hand a Cam cleat with a fairlead would work, but attaching that across the face of your mast will be a challenge.
Edited by klozhald on Sep 21, 2023 - 06:50 PM.
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Posted: Oct 02, 2023 - 04:06 PM
Consider using a Harken 469. Just tap into the mast. Use Loctite or lanocote to protect against corrosion. Try to install a turning block near the base of the mast to make raising easier. More than likely, the turning block will not "place" the line into the cleat and you may have to push it in better once the main is up. Or, use a Harken 2156. For the most strength, use a ratcheting block at the base and install the cleat (pulling up) above the block. The ratchet will absorb most of the load.
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