My boat has plastic coated shrouds and trapeze wires. I don't know their age but I doubt they're original because the boat is 40 years old. I see a tiny bit of rust at the top of the shrouds right where the plastic ends but it's so minute and none is running down the plastic and the one at the bottom of the shrouds there is no rust at all. I have owned several boats with plastic coated wires and never had a problem with them, but I remember reading somewhere recently that this type of rigging is no good and should be replaced ASAP. Should I trim off an inch of the plastic to see what the rust is really doing in there? Also, is it a good practice to "reverse" them occasionally?
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Plastic coated shrouds
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Posted: Sep 30, 2023 - 06:23 AM
Replace them, they are probably rusted out in the middle.
Do not ask me how I know. -
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Posted: Sep 30, 2023 - 01:33 PM
I'm not the materials guy here, but isn't the idea behind stainless that it requires exposure to oxygen in order to inhibit corrosion? If that's the case, the jacket would have the dual problem of causing it and concealing it. As far as reversing them, that sounds more like nonsense to me. If it's based on the theory that water runs down into it from the top, I'd argue that it also wicks up from the bottom. But you guys also have to deal with the salt, and dismasting ain't a laugh riot. So yeah, probably a good idea to get a new set. -
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Posted: Sep 30, 2023 - 01:48 PM
I ended up replacing a coated bridle wire and a trap wire this year that were rusted, with broken strands, in the middle of the wire under the coating. In both cases I was able to detect the problem area by running my fingers over the wire and there was a noticeable bump where the rust was occurring.
I would not necessarily be concerned about a little surface rust near the swage fitting, all of the wires seem to eventually develop this. You can try to clean up the area using a wire brush and some WD-40 and then give a closer inspection. If there are any specific areas of concern, then cut off the coating and inspect.
All that being said, if you don’t know the age of your rigging, it’s generally a good idea to just replace it. It’s relatively cheap insurance.
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Posted: Sep 30, 2023 - 02:54 PM
Take a box knife and run it down the shroud exposing some of the wire.. You can then pull the plastic coating off and inspect the wires. Takes all but about a couple of seconds.
They may be good, but, good as a spare set. I have always made it a practice when getting a new boat, it also got new rigging.
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John Schwartz
Ventura, CA
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Posted: Oct 01, 2023 - 09:59 AM
You cannot inspect what you can't see. Never coated wires.! -
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Posted: Oct 01, 2023 - 06:22 PM
I've done some additional research on this and the consensus is the plastic coated wires have to go. But I'm reluctant because they don't look that old but I'm old and have health issues and probably won't be sailing that much longer. (I say this every year). So before I have new ones made, should I just cut the plastic off to see what's going on? They might be okay and all I'll have to get is some chafe tape. Interesting how so many boats use plastic coated wire, you'd think if it was some kind of ticking time bomb it would be general knowledge.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Oct 01, 2023 - 06:40 PM
If the shrouds are more than a year old, replace them. If you want to inspect the stainless wires after you replace them, knock yourself out. If they look OK, you can set them aside to be used as spares (I've reused some old rigging when windstorms have snapped or frayed stainless rigging.)
The only time it makes sense to use plastic coated shrouds is when you plan to replace them, frequently. Especially if they are sailed in saltwater, or trailered on roads that get a lot of winter road salt.
Stainless is susceptible to embrittlement & crevice corrosion in low oxygen, wet environments. Especially when there's a lot of minerals in the water. That said, I don't know that I've ever seen a shroud that snapped due to embrittlement or corrosion. I have seen rusty shrouds, frayed shrouds, & overloaded shrouds, all of which I've replaced.
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Chuck Miles
1978 Hobie 16
1991 Hunter 23.5
TsaLaGi Yacht Club, Jackson Bay Marina
Fort Gibson Lake, OK
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Posted: Oct 01, 2023 - 08:49 PM
Replacing every year? I only sail this boat about twenty times a year. I assume that would include the headstay and the trapeze wires. I looked on Murrays and that could get expensive. I also noticed that most of their stuff is plastic coated.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Oct 02, 2023 - 07:37 AM
Since you are in Sarasota I assume you are mostly saltwater sailing which makes a big difference. They are often sold coated but not difficult to remove the coating or I am sure Murrays would sell you a set uncoated. I replace every other year, but I do on the beach storage where I rarely can rinse the rigging and I sail year-round. I agree a little surface rust is not a concern, but sounds like you are due for a replacement just from age -
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Posted: Oct 02, 2023 - 03:45 PM
As a previous rigging company owner - I would replace them with bare wire. Riggers love the plastic crap because it dramatically shortens the life span of the wire. You can cut the coating off, but what happens is the water will sit inside the strands underneath the plastic coating. This past weekend, one of our boats broke a trap wire and the crew got dropped in the water.. and yes, the traps were plastic coated.
If you can't find bare wire easily, message me as we have 3 riggers local and I still have my nicro tools to make wires..
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Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
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Tornadoes (Reg White)
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Posted: Oct 12, 2023 - 08:20 PM
so I just got my boat (brand new) last year. The shrouds, trap wires and forestay are all plastic coated. Are you guys saying I should take an exacto-blade and cut the plastic off? -
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Posted: Oct 12, 2023 - 10:50 PM
If you sail freshwater, I wouldn't worry about it. The coated wires do protect the sails. Salt water sailing is more corrosive and has more potential for damaging the wire. Also, cutting back 1-2" from any swages or hardware lets air in at critical places.
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Tom
NACRA 5.7 (1984 Sail 181)
Pennsylvania
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Posted: Oct 13, 2023 - 12:18 PM
A new boat? I would say do not cut the plastic off. It protects your sails. I'm the one who originally brought up this subject, and I've found no shortage of conflicting opinions. I had a long talk with one of the guys at Murray's Water-sports and his experience with boat rigging set me straight, (kind of). He said the new techniques for coating the wires are far superior in that the adhesion of the plastic is far better at preventing water mitigation. Older rigging that has cracks in the plastic from being brittle, possibly from long exposure to UV rays should be replaced right away especially if there is evidence of rust seeping out. In that case I would be inclined to cut the plastic off, just to see what's going on in there. Sailors that are one hundred per cent performance- minded would probably prefer bare wires because they would have miniscule less wind wind resistance. I made it a point to look at all the beach cats in a mast up storage facility and most of them had plastic coated wires. And sure enough, some of the really old ones had cracks in the plastic with rust stains. So, the bottom line for me is as long as the plastic looks new and there are no cuts in it or rust stains, I'm going to not worry about it.
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Oct 20, 2023 - 05:05 PM
I asked the manufacturer (Topcat) and got this response:
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Posted: Oct 21, 2023 - 10:40 AM
?????????
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Bill Townsend
G-Cat 5.0
Sarasota
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Posted: Oct 23, 2023 - 03:40 PM
There are hundreds of formulas for Stainless Steel. From a marine standpoint 316 and 306 are preferred for cabling and forged fittings.
304 SS cabling is sometimes sold with vinyl covering, but it is less desirable because it rusts quickly in salt water and on salt water shores, and is sometimes vinyl covered to attempt to slow the process.
316 has molybdenum in the mix which gives higher resistance to salt water (and other chemical) corrosion.
To me, I care much more about the formula of the cable I'm using, rather than if it is covered or not.
304 has it's uses, considering it has a much higher melting point and is a bit stronger, and 304 is more readily available in the US, as opposed to 316 being the more common the rest of the world.
But for marine use, stay away from 304, coated or not, and use the 316.
Can you trust a rusted cable? How rusted is it?
My $0.02.
Edited by klozhald on Oct 23, 2023 - 02:42 PM.
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Sheet In!
Bob
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Prindle 18-2 #244 "Wakizashi"
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AZ Multihull Fleet 42 member
(Way) Past Commodore of Prindle Fleet 14
Arizona, USA
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Posted: Oct 31, 2023 - 05:25 PM
Yes... As a previous rigger... yes, get rid of it. Plastic coating is the fastest way to kill the lift of stainless rigging.
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Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
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Tornadoes (Reg White)
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Posted: Oct 31, 2023 - 05:28 PM
From a professional rigger POV, BS!!!!
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Scott
Prindle Fleet 2
TCDYC
Prindle 18-2 Mod "FrankenKitty"
Tornado Classic "Fast Furniture"
Prindle 19 "Mr. Wiggly"
Nacra 5.8 "De ja vu"
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Tornadoes (Reg White)
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