I sail off a beach on Chicago's north shore. When we get North East breezes we generally face a significant surf combined with a wind that is almost directly perpendicular to the beach. My 19' hulls have so much volume that the boat is virtually impossible to keep pointed into the waves. This has resulted one shoulder dislocation and us basically sitting the big surf days out watching the 16's and 18's leap off the beach. Light air really compounds the problem. Occasionally we'll need an entourage of spotters to get us going if there is a race. This is our fourth season with the Nacra. I will also add that none of the other Nacra owners (all smaller) love the surf either. We live for NW,W,S,SE (Our Favorite!)
I've tried many strategies (all suggested by Hobie sailors) including having my crew all the way forward. I always feel that I'm courting disaster. Does anyone with a Nacra have a tried and true method? We love this big cat but on these days I wish I had a 16 or my old turbo 14.
Thanks
Nacra 5.8na - Launching Into Waves - Tips Needed
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Sep 05, 2004
- Last visit: Oct 19, 2015
- Posts: 327
Posted: Aug 19, 2008 - 02:20 PM
-
- Rank: Master Chief
- Registered: Jun 20, 2006
- Last visit: Dec 04, 2024
- Posts: 7090
Posted: Aug 19, 2008 - 03:00 PM
i dont have a nacra but there are a few things that are "universal".
Point into the wind and set your jib so when you push off (bear off) it will be set and fill right away.
Also tighten your mainsheet, but travel out for the same reason... as you push your hull away from the wind.. it will fill and you will start to move forward. Of course you have to time this with the waves so you can get momentum from the wind before the wave pushes you back.
Not sure about having your weight forward as this is one thing we do when we are backing our cats up ... -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Jul 17, 2006
- Last visit: Apr 13, 2010
- Posts: 194
Posted: Aug 19, 2008 - 08:48 PM
Definitely keep the weight forward. I used to launch into Lake Michigan from Benton Harbor MI and the waves will get you if you are too far back in the boat.
I managed a bow over stern capsize on a rogue wave last summer trying to sail through Michigan surf on the east shore.
-
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Sep 05, 2004
- Last visit: Oct 19, 2015
- Posts: 327
Posted: Sep 13, 2008 - 11:17 AM
Folks...Meant to thank you for the tips. Had some surf over labor day and these tips seem to work. Not tested on norester's yet but optomistic as the physics seem right. -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Jan 12, 2005
- Last visit: Jun 13, 2011
- Posts: 7
Posted: Nov 04, 2008 - 10:10 AM
Hi Larry:
Remember me, the guy from Chile. We met at Larry White's seminar last Year. I finnaly bought an Inter 20 but since ive never salied a cat with spi, ive capzised 4 times last saturday. Can you help me with some tips for the downwind leg? regards, from Chle and lets hope Obama Wins Today. -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Sep 05, 2004
- Last visit: Oct 19, 2015
- Posts: 327
Posted: Nov 04, 2008 - 10:20 AM
Different Larry unfortunately. (And you definately don't want any racing tips from me!) I don't have a Spinnaker but I'm sure someone does.
Might be a good topic for a new post. Thumbs up on the hopeful message though! -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Aug 06, 2004
- Last visit: Oct 20, 2024
- Posts: 878
Posted: Jan 05, 2015 - 06:08 AM
The first thing you have to remember is that when trying to depower a spin when the boat starts to heal up too much is that you MUST fall off instead of heading up. If you head up it will bring the spin up and you will more than likely go over. Falling off will put the spin behind the main and hopefully bring the boat back under control. -
- Rank: Lubber
- Registered: Mar 30, 2003
- Last visit: Jan 09, 2015
- Posts: 9
Posted: Jan 05, 2015 - 10:58 AM
Beach launching is a bit of a fine art...racing through a beach launch is even tougher! I'm not that familiar with what kind of surf you get on the lake but I imagine it's probably a little faster and more frequent waves than an oceanic beach would provide. My surf experience is limited to the ocean but here is what I try to do with an onshore breeze and significant surf:
Prior to launching:
- determine if there is any angle between the breeze and the waves so you can choose the best tack to leave the beach on - obviously, you want the angle that allows you to sail higher into the waves with some power
- Next, set the jib for a close-hauled setting and leave it there. You need this to drive the boat and pull the bows down since your foils are going to be limited in their ability to help until you get to deeper water.
- Set the mainsail really loose. Traveler all the way down and put a good deal of twist in it. At least initially, you don't want the main providing any driving force.
- Rudders unlocked so they can float behind slightly submerged (or moved to a low position where they can get some traction in the water).
[/list]
Launch:
- Crew weight - you need to maintain at least a normal upwind crew weight position. If the waves are really serious and have a chance of capsizing you backwards, your crew will need to move forward accordingly. I've had days (on an I20) where the crew is laying on their belly on the windward hull with one arm on the spin pole at the forestay bridle for stability...and it still wasn't enough to keep a wave from flipping us backwards....but I wasn't very good at my last point at the time (see below). Crew weight position needs to be where you can survive the wave and power up quickly.
- Steering - Once you guys are on the boat, the skipper is going to steer mostly with the mainsail. With the jib set, you bring the main in to bring the boat up closer to the wind, ease it out to bear away (thanks to the jib). This is a coarse (not course) and somewhat slow reacting adjustment so be very careful about bringing the main in too fast...you could find yourself in irons and in a really tough spot if you do. Once I've punched through a series set of waves, I ease the main and get as much steering as possible out of the (floating) rudders to get the bow back down quickly so we can re-accelerate.
- angles. I'm trying to steer the boat square into the waves when they hit and turn back down as quickly as possible. You really need to watch the rudders here...keep them from getting deep in the water if the boat backs up so they don't hit the bottom and start breaking stuff. I also watch the foam going by the rudders to figure out if the water is moving forward or backwards (affecting which direction I should be steering).
Strategy:
When the surf is big, there are gaps in the waves and specific sets of bigger waves (usually in sets of three waves). Try to launch just after a big set of three have come through and be aware that waves sets never span the entire beach. They're not usually that wide and once you really start to see it (at least in the ocean stuff), you can actually see those sets down the beach and pick out holes between them. When this is the case, don't get caught into the idea of using a calm patch of water between waves to get further offshore but use that calm spot to accelerate and run down the beach to set yourself up in the next hole between wave sets. In other words, don't be so focused on getting through the surf that you do nothing but try to make ground toward offshore. Be focused on getting through the waves like avoiding the bigger moguls on a ski course. This last bit can make you look like an all star and once you get a feel for it, you won't ever sweat surf launching again.
As you get better and better, you'll find that you can bring the main in a little tighter initially which will allow you to get to speed faster. Just be careful because if you launch with the main too tight you will end up in irons and/or get tacked by the first wave set you hit...and that really sucks.
Edited by jake on Jan 05, 2015 - 11:04 AM. -
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Nov 15, 2024
- Posts: 3446
Posted: Jan 05, 2015 - 01:09 PM
Really good stuff Jake, thanks for sharing.
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
-- -
- Rank: Administrator
- Registered: Jul 19, 2001
- Last visit: Nov 15, 2024
- Posts: 3446
Posted: Jan 05, 2015 - 01:14 PM
Just noticed the original post was from 2008 and was asking about waves perpendicular to the shore, that actually sounds terrifying, sideways surf!
Maybe Larry can report what he learned about sideways lake surf in the last six years.
--
Damon Linkous
1992 Hobie 18
Memphis, TN
How To Create Your Signature
How To Create Your Own Cool Avatar
How To Display Pictures In The Forums.
-- -
- Rank: Mate
- Registered: Mar 19, 2004
- Last visit: Nov 21, 2024
- Posts: 964
Posted: Jan 05, 2015 - 05:22 PM
The OP said that the wind was perpendicular to the shore. I highly doubt the waves would also be perpendicular to shore. Wind perpendicular to shore is ideal conditions for surf launching because it allows you to easily power up the boat without much risk of rounding up and stalling and lets you easily hit the waves perpendicular to their face.
I think Jake's comments are quite appropriate. We surf launch a H18 and we used to sail the H20 in the surf when we had one. The process is pretty standard for all boats. Keep the jib powered up to pull you through the surf and prevent rounding up. Get as much dagger board and rudder down as possible without risking touching down on the bottom (we usually just focus on the windward board and rudder for the most part until well into deep water). Always hit the waves as square as possible. If you do stall out, dump the main and sheet the jib in immediately to get the bow pulled off the wind. If there is shore break, I have my crew planted on the windward bow tang with a firm grip and solid stance until we are ready to launch because if water gets under the bow before you're ready it will float the bow, the jib will spin the bow downwind, and the boat will take off. Be aware of what is well downwind from you (in NJ we have these unpleasant formations called jetties every couple hundred yards down the beach
).
One final note, if the waves are too big or the wind too light or from the wrong direction, sometimes the most prudent option IS to stay on the beach (or hitch a ride on someone else's boat ).
sm
