I'm new to cat sailing but have done lots of dinghy sailing in my youth (laser2,laser,sunfish etc) and some monohull (18ft - 26ft) nothing much in the last 10yrs though. I understand that a cat big enough to float myslef (6' 205lbs, and my friend 6'2'' 220) and have enough power to make things fun (spin rig required) is going to be rather "large". I'm in decent shape and my friend is in exelent condition, we are looking to get something big enough for us and maybe the wives too.
After reviewing lots of options it looks like an inter20, infusion18 or similar sized boat is what it's going to take. Our problem is that these boats are monsters. I'm not sure either of us have the skill required to run one let alone something like an F20c (the boat designed for two big guys looking to go FAST). Spending cap is 25k. We will store it rigged at the lake so unless it's impossible for two new sailors to rig in a day don't factor in rigging time.
Looking forward to the forums suggestions,
Scott
Catamaran suggestion for two big guys on a lake. Added dificulty: new to multi's harder:nacra pref.
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 12:49 PM
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 01:12 PM
Scott, Welcome to TheBeachcats.com!
You are right to respect the power of the modern beachcat, especially the big ones like the Nacra 20 and Nacra 20 Carbon. Both of those boats are beasts, but there is no reason that two big guys can't handle them easily if you respect the learning curve and and start out in light wind before going crazy.
You can get a new Nacra 20 for your budget, not quite a N20C but maybe a used one if you can find it. You didn't mention where you are located?
When you are shopping be sure and leave plenty of budget for top of the line gear like trap harnesses and comfortable PFD's, especially for the wives.
With your budget and ability to have the boat mast up you might also consider an ARC 22, can sail with three on the traps! Beast mode on!
An older beachcat that is a star at handling weight is the Supercat 20, didn't come with a spin rig back in the day though.
At the smaller sizes, any of the latest generation of F18 beachcats can handle your combined weight, the AHPC Capricorn C2, Infusion MKII, or the new Falcon F18. The advantage would be to have a racing class available if you really get into it.
At the lower price end, you could get a Hobie 21SE (10 x 21), these were only made from about 1988-1990 so are usually projects and would need to have the modern spin rig added. They originally came with deck launched spinnakers.
Let us know what you come up with!
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1992 Hobie 18
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 02:21 PM
Hobie Miracle 20 would be the easy answer I'd think, except that you want a Nacra.
Given your budget, though, start with an I20. They're not too hard to find for a decent price (the classifieds here see plenty of them.)
I think you'd be on the large end of an F18, and unless you have reason to go that route, I doubt there's a whole lot of upside for you.
The I20 will give you TONS of learning curve while still being very user friendly, and IMO it sails like a dream.
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Rob
OKC
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 02:40 PM
I may be biased but your post screams Nacra 20.
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 02:50 PM
Yurdle
I'd most likely be keeping it at Hefner in OKC. Other options are Arbuckle, Texhoma or Eufaula. I'd prefer hefner out of these options as it's a similar drive time to the other lakes and less chance of a drunken power boater running us over.
Damon
ARC22- I've never heard of this monster but anything that will let us trap 3 people sounds like it should be FUN.
By new nacra 20 do you mean the Nacra 20NA? I've not seen a lot of info on this boat other than some basic info: curved boards, less beam than a 20c similar sail area. I've no idea on pricing etc so any additional info would be much appreciated.
Thanks for the welcome,
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 03:15 PM
I was referring to the Nacra 20 that is also called the inter 20, same boat.
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 03:31 PM
Gotcha - thanks -
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 04:05 PM
Where are you located? We've got tons of different cats at Hefner -- it might be worth your time to take a look at them before buying.
It sounds like you're south of here, so definitely watch the Houston/Austin communities for boats for sale.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 05:36 PM
Read through this thread
http://thebeachcats.com/f…opic/topic/14300/start/0
NACRA loves to cause confusion with their naming, but this isn't all their fault.
The Inter 20 and Nacra 20 and (currently) Nacra 20 One Design are all the same boat, with many many small upgrades over the years so the newer the better. I'm pretty sure you can still buy a brand new Nacra 20 OD. Just to make things more confusing you might hear about the Nacra 20 Open Class, this has been created by a group of Nacra 20 sailors who wanted to do their own thing with the Nacra 20 sails and other details and all race heads up. It's not a different boat, just different racing rules.
The Nacra 20C or the Nacra F20 Carbon or the Nacra 20 Carbon is the 20x10.5 carbon monster with the curved boards.
The Nacra 20NA is a dealer creation (The Cathouse), they basically put Nacra 20 street legal beams on a Nacra F20 Carbon to create a legal trailerable version. This is not a Nacra official project and only available from Cathouse.
That's what I think I know about the Inter/Nacra 20 versions.
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 09:55 PM
Yeah I'm in Ada. I was browsing the classifieds and spotted a two owner f20c in SanAntonio anyone have any history on this boat? Also spied a few n20's that look good. Any oklahoma/Okc boat forums or are most of those cat sales word of mouth?
Thanks for the info on the 20na I was racking my brain trying to remember where I saw those specs. I'd love to get something stupid fast like the 20c. I've jumped into the deep end with some other toys (motorcycles and sports cars) they didn't turn out badly so I think if I respect the machine it shouldn't bite me too often.
I've got a few questions on flotation devices and harnesses. What are some of your favorites? Why? Footware or barefoot? -
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 10:03 PM
For me, Footware! I know people that always sail barefoot, but it is really easy to bust a toe or step on something sharp under water while launching the boat. So I keep a lot of extra "water sock" style shoes for potential crew and I always wear something like this.
http://www.amazon.com/Tev…B1X9I/ref=pd_sbs_shoe_33
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Posted: May 30, 2013 - 10:15 PM
I'm a fan of not busting my toes or getting sunburned on my feet lol. Those look perfect. -
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Posted: May 31, 2013 - 04:58 AM
I agree with a watershoe instead of barefoot. I typically where Keen's, because I prefer the hard sole. For PFD check out kayaking vendors. Extrasport is a brand I have come to like. They are shorter in the waste to allow better access on the harness hook when wearing a harness, and don't bunch up when seated. I like the Murrey half race harness. The over the shoulder harnesses are nice for distance racers, but since I typically am just playing around the half harness works well, but still has good adjustment for comfort.
Other thing to consider are safety gear like VHF radios, whistles, knife etc, that you can carry in your PFD, so pockets are a good think. Especially one that fits a radio.
Good luck with your search. N20 would be nice for you. The SC20 is older design but also a blast (ARC22 is newer version) And the Hobie 21SE would also be a good option. One note is the SC20 is 12 feet wide, the H21SE is 10 feet plus wings. The N20 is newer.
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‘92 H18 w/SX wings
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Posted: May 31, 2013 - 05:18 AM
The zhik ZKGs are pretty sweet.
Keep in mind that all of these boats mentioned are very powerful, a stock N20 wouldn't be lacking in ANY way for your quest for speed. It's a very durable and tough boat, parts are readily available new or used for the most part. It's a ver comfortable boat and sails like a Cadillac, however it will put you on your ass in a hurry if you let it. The Open 20 sail plan makes a nice upgrade for this boat.
The Carbon 20 is definitely a sexy ride. It's a line honors boat but, your going to have to pay for it. The used boats generally run $25k, used parts are not easy to come by as only a handful have been sold. The boat is not quite as robust, as it uses parts from the infusion which are a little undersized, especially in the steering department. If you run a dagger into the ground on this boat and break it, it's gonna be a $2000 repair bill.
The carbon 20 in the classifieds is the former Zhik boat, If you made a call to Mike Krantz he could tell you more about it.
There is such a thing as buying a boat that is overwhelming and not being able to sail or race it very well. I had a guy that had a Hobie 17 and decided he wanted to go big as well. He had motorcycles as well and said he had the need for speed. Anyways, I took him out on a stock n20 once in 15 mph winds. His eyes got about as big as saucers and once we made it back to the beach he never spoke of needing that much power again. -
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Posted: May 31, 2013 - 06:31 AM
Nacra20 - this sounds like a fast boat. Not bleeding edge but proven. Similar to a vette when the 20c sounds more like a Ferrari. Are there any wear items I should look for specifically? This would also leave enough budget for a smaller cat for mixed or solo sailing. I think this will be what I start hunting for.
Thanks again for all the info,
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Posted: May 31, 2013 - 08:58 AM
It is a ridiculously fast boat.
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Rob
OKC
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Posted: May 31, 2013 - 10:06 AM
Rob how fast are we talking in a typical hefner 14mph wind with low/mid chop, 15knots? 20knots? Sorry I've just never sailed a boat that can do faster than wind speed so it's kind of hard for me to even guess. -
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Posted: May 31, 2013 - 11:11 AM
I have a Inter-18 and sail with one larger human (me) and one normal size. I'm 195. My regular crew is 160. My boat does 18 kts sitting on the beach (or in most medium wind). I'm guessing/hoping the Inter-20 does 19 to 20 in anything above 15 kts of wind. You can always put the spinnaker up and head just off a beam reach to heat things up. These boats have a large flat surface behind the daggers and will plane off.
I want a Inter-20 real bad. It might be a giving crack to an addict. Maybe I just need a partner I can crew for locally.
I have hit 26 kts on my boat. This is stupid fast and I only need to visit this in ideal conditions/crew. The difference between say 20-21 kts and anything over that is huge. Uber speed is attained in a flat but breaking following sea of 4 to 6 foot waves on a beam reach in about 20-25 kts of wind. My guess is you can get an Inter-20 near 30 kts if you push it and are willing to snap a mast to find out where the threshold is. The danger with this tack is you are sailing down wind and up wind at the same time. The hulls/waves are in a down wind attitude, but the sails/wind are up wind. To put it simply, there is no exit strategy. If you point up, you flip, you you dig deeper, you pitch pole. Everyone needs to be fully attentive. This is extra dangerous when you are landing on a beach and the waves are really breaking.
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nacra inter-18
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Posted: May 31, 2013 - 11:42 AM
IDK, it all feels fast when you hit the water.
The chop on Hefner always scales with the wind -- you won't get high wind without steep chop.
Sailing Hefner is basically the opposite of the ocean. You're playing the wind the whole time, not the waves. If it is blowing 14, it is ALWAYS gusting higher* (say 20-25), and gusting constantly, and gusting from about a 90° angle. The chop never becomes real waves or rollers, so you can ignore it on the bigger cats until you get into break-stuff winds, in which case the chop itself becomes the problem as it starts to hit the hulls with some force, and it hits them out of sync.
*Case in point: Saturday morning windfinder shows 16 gusting to 35 @ 7a, 17 to 30 @ 10a, 14 to 22 @ 1p. Ack! it shows 4am this morning as 18 gusting to 47, but that's certainly not common.
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Rob
OKC
Pile of Nacra parts..
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Posted: May 31, 2013 - 04:59 PM
You initially mentioned a boat you, your friend, and your wives (sometimes) could all be on together. Putting you wife on a rocketship might not be a good first experience. I think your idea of a first play/practice boat is a great idea. H16/17/18, P16/18 are 5 common readily available boats that migh work. Most can be sailed with 1-3 people depending on conditions.
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Scott,
‘92 H18 w/SX wings
‘95 Hobie Funseeker 12 (Holder 12)
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