Charlie Ogletree works at Ullman and does a lot of their multihull sails.
Having watched the local A cat fleet try different sail makers... including all of the ones being discussed..
Go Local... if the sail maker measures your mast and factors in your crew weight... and is a pro.... You will get a good sail.
I have seen two instances when the big names send their all purpose sail for guys and it looks like crap and does not work on their mast for them.
Go local! Your sail maker can make any changes if needed.
The lead was taken off the mast tip when I dropped the mast for the journey home. You probably could protest me at any future event but you and me both have the same masts so it probably wouldn't be your wisest move. I think this all boils down to measurement certificates which just isn't happening here in the UK at present but I'm sure in the next year or two things will move on, boats and equipment will have to provide certificates at registration for the bigger events.
Hi all,
sounds like the Stealths need to lower their gooseneck <img src=
alt=
/>, then you wouldn't need to put downhaul blocks up the sail.
Having the correct tip weight mast is very important though <img src=
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/>. It is easy to check your own at home as I did with
Altered
and add strength or weight as needed. Don't just leave it for the measurers. The difference in weight aloft makes most difference to upwind performance in chop and we all know that nobody wants to cheat. Off course their is no need to check if you have a Superwing Alloy Mast.
alt=
/>, then you wouldn't need to put downhaul blocks up the sail.
Right, but we are all to big around here and moving the gooseneck any lower will prevent us from going under the boom when tacking <img src=
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This said this is a non issue with my small Stealth pre-F16 main, with a luff of 7.43m (According to the SCHRS site) instead of 8.10m (the max allowed by the F16 rules) it means the sail sits higher. But this raise an interesting question: I assumed the mast of the Stealth was the same as the more recent Stealth F-16, am I right? Or did the mast length changed when the boat was F16 optimised?
Lets get one thing perfectly straight. There is NO black band rule in the F16 class rules !
It is another one of those things like the F16 constitution that the GC wants and acts like it exists but it has never been voted upon and therefor it can not be part of the F16 class rules.
Also there is absolutely no mentioning of the black bands in the publically available F16 rules, just as there is no mentioning of any AGM or constitution.
http:/
I would really like to propose to the GC to get with the real world and handle these things properly.
Wouter
GC have said nothing about this as far as I know, Simon did.
I dont find any black band rule either, so there can not be one for now. On the other hand, somebody might be working on a proposal for the members.
There is a black band rule.
Lets get one thing perfectly straight. There is NO black band rule in the F16 class rules !
I'll stop looking for one now! Thanks Woulter....
The GC has taken up a black band measurement in the official F16 measurement form when no such item is even mentioned in the F16 class rules.
When my boat was measured it came back with a note that my blank band measurement was
an issue
. It was no use arguing that the F16 class as a whole doesn't even know what a blank band measurement is.
I now have the questionable honour of having an issue with a F16 rule that doesn't exit.
Wouter
Whopsee, sounds like a communication issue which should be resolved.
My mast has a large black band of carbon all around it. As long as the measurement is concerned only with the bottom of the band I'm fine. Right? <img src=
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I was quoting from the measurement spreadsheet (see link above).
I think I am correct in saying the F16 sail measurement is slightly different to normal SCHRS (only luff length of mast rated in area.) Is there an arguement for the mast to be banded upon measurement of the mainsail? Mainsail measurement requires the luff length to be measured under tension. Banding would make it apparent that the luff length (and rating) was being exceeded.
Cheshirecatman
Hi Pepin
When I was sailing an R and bought a new Landy F16 mainsail I had to move the boom/goose neck below the mast rotator bracket but it worked out really well. I had to also adjust the outhaul system to the max length of the boom, that boom was a rectangular shape. If you're looking to change mains and need photo's info on what I did please don't hesitate to contact me.
Isn't that section acting as a boom vang? As you release main sheet the boom wants to rise. The lug in the lower sail section is in the sail track and that sail panel pulls tight, stopping boom lift. Vangs are something cats never seem to have.
Just a guess...
As it was explained to me recently, cats do not have vangs because it would impair mast rotation. With a vang you lock the mast and the boom together and the mast can't rotate freely anymore. Monohulls with vang do not have rotating masts.
So if your mast rotate: traveler. If it does not, you get a more convenient (IMHO) vang.
My Arrow had a Vang and the mast rotated fine. The Arrow has a fairly low aspect rig compared to modern cats though. I think it would be scary how much tension you would need on the vang to get decent leech tension on the big head mains. Can you imagine the boom you would need to handle that sort of load?
That lug would never hold the tension required to keep the boom done.
Pepin, the GP sail fits the older style Stealths masts fine just as it is, both Nick and I have not had any problems. <img src=
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The lug is for the outhaul to pull against, sail without it in the track and the sail near the boom get very ugly. My Mosquito has a vang, very useful for sail shaping and forcing rotation on light days.
I wonder why the Goodall F16 sail for the Viper is different then the Blade/Taipan on the same mast?
Darryn
Mozzie
1782
me too
One of the blades at the club is currently carrying the goodall sails, and the main is the same as the viper big head main. The differences lie in the blade's jib, which has a longer luff length and the spinnaker, which seems to have a longer luff length too. As far asi i can see, all the big head mains coming out of the goodall facility on the taipan, viper and blade are the same.
I crewed on a skiff a few times over winter... It had about a 24:1 ratio on the vang, and he would wrap it around his hand and CRANK it. This caused a lot of mast bend... but more amazingly it cause the boom which must have been about 80mm diameter to bend! And his rig was substantially smaller than a cat rig!
me too
I can't speak for AHPC, but Greg told me that he would build the Viper main different to the Taipan because.
The spreaders are different, the mast is longer,the boom is shorter, also the loads are higher because of extra width and weight.
The spreader difference and weight apply to the Blade Vs Viper also. Although I would expect the Blade and Viper main to be closer in design than the Taipan.
In reality though, you will easily get more variation from different manafacturers making sails for the same boat from my experience. <img src=
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/> I don't think sailmaking is the exact science we all wish it was. <img src=
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Pepin, are you planning to acquire new beams from John P?
Of course, you'd need a new tramp as well or at least insert a widening strip down the centre of your existing tramp. However, you'd then (with a new main) have a fully optimised Stealth F16 and have increased the value of your boat? Psychologically too, you'd feel that you were on the pace.....
It's just what I would do in your position if I was planning on new sails, go the whole hog!
Definitely not. The 0.02% gain in performance I will get by widening the boat by 8inches will not compensate for my poor sailing skills. I'd say I should improve the man first, the material second.
A F16 main on a type R platform was great at going upwind, don't ask me why but I'm sure it points higher. We have had quite a few beer discussions at the bar over this but no one has come up with a clear answer as to how a slightly narrower platform (200mm-8inches) could point higher but it does. Also, in the lighter stuff you can get the windward hull out quicker both up and downwind and the platform could be stiffer. So all in all there's extremely little overall speed difference between the two. Like Pepin admits it's the nut on the end of the tiller that wins, loses races in most cases.
Ahhhhhh! - NOW I understand!! - It's not the 8 inches themselves but how you use those 8 inches? <img src=
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FYI, many non apparent cats have vangs. When going downwind square with the traveller and main sail all the way out, it is important to keep the boom low to present max sail area to the wind.
My old Dolphin had a wing mast like a super wing and never experienced any promlems with rotation. Also had a vang on my old Mari 4.3. Paper Tigers, Mosquitoes, Arafuras and Quickcats I have also sailed had vangs.
FYI, many non apparent cats have vangs. When going downwind square with the traveller and main sail all the way out, it is important to keep the boom low to present max sail area to the wind.
My old Dolphin had a wing mast like a super wing and never experienced any promlems with rotation. Also had a vang on my old Mari 4.3. Paper Tigers, Mosquitoes, Arafuras and Quickcats I have also sailed had vangs.
I use the vang upwind also in the light stuff, vang sheeting like a Laser. While some Mozzies run square downwind I find it quicker to gybe downwind, using apparent wind, the vang helps over rotate the mast.
If the Viper rig has more grunt then...? Perhaps I miss the point.
Darryn