Hobie bob mast float

Why?,

Stand on the aft corner that is the most downwind, and the mast should come up to windward. A boat that is turtled can usually be righted again, unless the mast is stuck in the mud. I've had to remove my PFD, and swim down a mast, and pull it out of a muddy bottom putting my feet agianst that same muddy bottom for leverage! Kinda scary. However, a mast float will prevent this kinda thing, check out those guys at Delray Beach, with all the mast floats, milk jugs, etc.

I fully agree with Todd. The mast-head float prevents turtling from happening in the first place.

Robert

As you all probably know by now, I am strongly in favor of all beach cats having some sort of masthead flotation, and it is probably especially important for cruisers (non-racers) who tend to do a lot of sailing when there may not be other boats around. However, (and I think I have mentioned this before, too), there is one thing you should be aware of if you use a Hobie bob. I discovered this with our Hobie Waves -- the bob floats the tip of the mast so well that once the boat capsizes, it tends to go skating downwind faster than if the mast were digging into the water. So in the event of capsize, make sure somebody holds onto the boat, or it can quickly get away from you.
Of course, any boat can easily get away from you after it capsizes, so holding onto the boat or something attached to the boat is always the primary consideration. It's just that the bob helps the boat get away a little faster.

Here's a photo of my Prindle 18 fitted with a Baby Bob float. I haven't gotten it wet yet, so I don't know how well it works. Maybe we'll test it out in a couple weeks down in Key Largo. We mainly sail in a shallow lake, so our main concern was keeping the mast and sails out of the mud.

Jack Hoying
Fort Loramie, Ohio
Prindle 18 #1645
http://www.bright.net/~jmhoying/sailing/prindle.htm

I've been thinking of ways to deal with this. This is not a cure but on boats that have spin.halyards, if needed, you could tie your throw-able floatation cushion to the haylard and pull the cushion "down" to help float the mast.

Mike

Here's a product that was advertised in a 1980s Hobie Hotline. Does anyone remember seeing one in action?

Jack Hoying
Fort Loramie, Ohio
Prindle 18 #1645
http://www.bright.net/~jmhoying/sailing/prindle.htm

Would a discus shaped mast head float act as a "canard" and improve the performance of the mainsail?

GARY

Gary, you look different somehow.
Or maybe I should say, "Grandma, your teeth are so BIG!"

Anyway, I looked up the definition of "canard," and I'm not sure what you mean in the context of a masthead float.

I have one installed on my TheMightyHobie18 and it works great. I glassed mine in though, because the rivets cracked the mast slightly when I was squeezing them. I've also heard of them braking off when they hit the water if you're going fast enough.

Canard is duck in French (I think). I don't think the humane society would look kindly on this practice, but it would probably work. You'd have to train the duck quite a bit first . . .
Can anyone explain "modulus of elasticity"?

We have Hobie Bob's on our fleet of Hunter 140's at Sail Sand Point, www.sailsandpoint.org. It is a great addition for safety, and a real time saver when righting the boats. As part of the US SAILING training format, all classes are required to turn over the boats, then right them.

Caleb Tarleton, Sail Sand Point

I'm sure when the duck hits the water in a capsize, it would be screaming, "Aflack!"

Basically it's a measurement of how elastic a given material is. It's a constant for certain materials. Soft stretchy materials (like aluminum compared to steel) tend to have a high MOE. Hard brittle materials tend to have a low MOE. The different aluminum alloys have widely varying MOEs too.

That was tongue in cheek from another thread, but thanks. I'm just trying to work my way up to pooh-bah, plus it's Friday afternoon.
The more I think of the duck idea, the more I like it. It could swim the mast into position for righting, or, better yet, PREVENT capsize or pitchpole by flying upwind! Of course, it would only be a matter of time before some hotshot had a great blue heron up there (maybe Wouter can calculate the necessary wingspan to prevent a pitchpole).
Happy Friday everyone.

Al, your duck is on the verge of infringing upon my idea of an articulating masthead airfoil which would give lift to the top of the mast and help prevent capsize.

Well Mary, you're still safe. Someone already patented the duck.

yeah well...poo-bah isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Jake,

You got that the wrong way round, Aluminium has a lower modulus of elasticity (70GPa)(often called Youngs modulus), and steel has a higher modulus of elasticity (200 GPa).

When you see equations for stiffness the Modulus of Elasticity is often represented by the letter E.

It is basicly a measure of how far a material will stretch under a given load (stiffness). A mast made from a lower modulus of elasticity material would be less stiff.

My Materials Science Professor would be ashamed

Whoops, I should have said "winglet" rather than "canard." I was refering to the winglets used at the tips of wings to reduce drag that is induced by a wing tip vortex.
"grin"
Triangular Mast Head Float?

But I guess that the location of the masthead bobber is too far from the leech of a square top sail to be used as a winglet.

GARY

I considered to buy a hobie bob, for about US140, but I reconsidered and bought one like this:

Just tie it to the sail, it goes up with the sail. The handles are pretty useful for tying

That looks like a Hobie "Bucky".

That's kind of what I thought you meant. Somebody just recently was telling me that Suicide sailors at one time were using endplates on the tops of their masts to reduce vortex drag at the top of the sail (or something like that). But it did not seem to do anything to improve performance, so they stopped using them.

The key to not turtling, though, is to seal the mast. Back in the day (like 6 years ago), I had a Hobie 16 that had met a power line in a storm. The line burnt a hole in the mast, maybe a 1.5 inches in diameter. Everytime the boat would flip, we'd have to get on the righting line immediately, or the boat would turtle in no time because the mast would fill up with water. I sold the boat shortly after, so no longer my problem. Anyway, I have an I-20, and the mast is sealed, and it takes it awhile to turtle. I can also solo-right the boat. I have a hobie-bob sitting around, but I'm never gonna use it...it just looks so amateur. I understand if you are a beginner that you need the peace of mind it provides, but once you've learned to right the boat even if turtled, then you've got it.

You have to realize that not everyone sails in 30' deep water. Driving you mast and sails into the bottom is a little hard on equipment. You are correct that a sealed mast is important, but for some of us that sail on shallow waters, a mast float is good insurance. Probably not a "must have" but I'm glad I have it.

Jack - proud to be "so amateur" looking
Fort Loramie, Ohio
P18 with Prindle Bob

Saying that using a bob looks "amateur" is like saying that bicycle riders who use helmets look amateur, even though the opposite is true.

A masthead float is a very important safety feature, and it is too bad everybody doesn't use them.

Even if you don't care about your own safety, you should use a masthead float if you ever take children out on your beach cat.

I thought I was so clever until I saw the pics posted in this thread with the CO2 tank. For the RTI race that was blown away last fall I stuffed two surplus airline PFD's into a bag. Fresh CO2 cartridges are in both PFD's. In the event of a pitchpole they will be inflated and hoisted on a dedicated halyard to the top of the mast. If I can keep the mast up (foam inside the mast), I MAY have a chance to recover from the feared pitchpole of my little trimaran but it will also require the use of a drogue (longer story for a later thread). I hope I never have to use it and with the price of CO2 cartridges, I haven't tested it, yet.

The good thing is that I have two extra PFD's on board to use for whatever or whenever they may be needed to be pressed into service.

I am here reminded that the Rave trimarans came without their masts being sealed, allowing rather discomforting pitchpoling. I personally rescued several of them at an important regatta. Even more disconcerting was the cavalier attitude of some owners toward mast sealing beforehand, as they stated that it was neither important nor necessary. I say it was and is.
There is so much stuff hanging off a Rave, why would it need a drogue?

I had a friend of mine that got stuck for a couple of hours turtled on a Viper 21 (21' sport monohull) off Hilton Head. He had to wait until a powerboat would help them pull the boat back on it's side. By then the keel-stepped mast had warbled a big hole in the top of the deck. A little later while cranking up the keel in preparation for putting it on the trailer, the eye pulled out of the top of the keel and it went straight to the bottom.

We later talked about how he might have had some luck by hoisting a couple of life vests or the throwables he had on board up the spinnaker halyard...hindsight is 20/20.