Anybody got any details on Randy's newest contraption?
Supposedly a rotating ama (one moves forward, one moves aft)
http:/
No. But I have a question if you wouldn't mind. It's sorta related (I'll be happy to delete this reply if it's something you'd rather not get into).
Why isn't the proa used more often?
A couple of reasons:
1. Hard to deal with steering--kick up both ways etc.
2. Tacking up narrow channels--you'd have to shunt, bear off and get on the new tack in the narow confines.
3. Not too many folks have really pushed the technology gains of other multis in this direction. Efficiency gains of the Tornado have been bankrolled by Olympic campaigns. Who would bankroll this effort?
That said, an offshore course might be an ideal spot to test the potential efficiency. Proas are best when long and slim for super narrow L/B ratios. I suppose one could get a proa of 30 feet length to weigh what a 20' cat might weigh.
Randy's entry really piques my interest in that he beat a pretty well sailed Tornado into the first checkpoint by 24 minutes. It's obviously fast--but so is Randy. It kind of reminds me of a double outrigger sailing canoe rather than the modern tri. No 2-300% amas, instead body weight hiked out like an International canoe on a rack--but with a little ama undeneath to eliminate those occasional bobbles which would make an IC sailor swim.
http:/
I saw a film of something similar a few years back, main exception was one ama. Looks pretty fast. Steering was the same.
A Malibu Outrigger, though, does not have to be shunted. Might be a good boat for this event.
Lots of information available if you google Malibu Outrigger.
I love it Tikipete! I have a 21' Ulua with a 128 square foot sail. It does have the coolness factor all over my TheMightyHobie18.
Dan <img src=
alt=
/>
When I first saw Randy's new tri, I thought, thats interesting, a lightweight tri. But then I read that the ama's rotate around the rig, so the windward one slides back and the leeward one slides forward, and thats when I thought this thing was more interesting.
Ulua? Any pictures?
What would work for Randy Smythe might be way over my head! <img src=
alt=
/>
Still, an outrigger/proa type seems to me very suitable for Watertribes Everglades Challenge.
Couple of points. I'm pretty sure a small boat can be shunted very, very quickly, like a crash gybe. Also, with the outrigger canoe, sometimes the sail rig is so light the crew just pick it up and move it to the opposite end of the boat. Instead of bow and stern I think the traditional reference is to
now bow
and
then bow
.
Hey,
Stop hijacking this thread with all this kooky proa nonsense.
Bill
The actual physics of the thing, would it be similar to an old style
pitchfork
tri?
OK, so the amas move fore and aft about a center axis? That's interesting. I suppose they pivot on both beams so they remain aligned with the center hull all the time. Neat idea....run smaller amas...leeward one goes forward when reaching and downwind to give a little more buoyancy forward and allow the skipper to get further back on the windward one. Upwind, bring them out to 90 degrees for ultimate righting leverage....this is brilliant! I would love to see more.
Does anyone have any info on teh Everglads race itself? Clerly the T would kill any of the competition when sailing, but I thought this race also involved some substantial paddling/portages/shallow water. Maybe everyone just thought it did, and the speed difference sailing fast made up for the limited amount of paddling? Did our guys on the T have any special paddles etc for that part?
I know from talking to Randy there are a few low bridges where you have to demast to go under.
http:/
Yeah, the guy who runs it has some of the check points in places that make it hard for more common sailboats to get to. One is under a bridge 12 feet wide and 8 feet tall, and you have to start from above the high water mark on the beach, so your craft has be light enough to get into the water. I think now that the T won it, they will add more obstacles. Sailing anarchy has some video's of the race. And one shows the T finishing or at one of the check points, and they are paddling it with the mast down.
They are using regular paddles, one guy on each hull, one forward, one aft.
My understanding is that Randy's tri had a mechanism for easy fast mast dropping and raising for the bridge where as the Tornado would be a little more time consuming. This would help him stay ahead of big T.
Proas were in the Challenge in about every year except current event. We had Raptor this year. which is, arguably, tacking proa.
It is quite typical for Proa to fail apart just after Tampa Bay.
Very few made to checkpoint 1.
There was one homebuilt tacking single outrigger which made to the finish in 2003. I believe they pull ashore and place outrigger on lee side every time they needed to tack. <img src=
alt=
/>
There are many obstacles on the course; however it is do-able by catamaran. Prior to spectacular performance of Tornado, trip was completed on G-cat 18, Hobie Cat 16, wooden A-cat, inflatable cat in different years
Just to clear all questions about race itself.
Currently Watertribe has three races.
Everglades Challenge – the current event, from Tampa Bay to Key largo, 300 miles, 3 checkpoints plus start and finish, one week long, no portages, entire trip can be made in a boat <img src=
alt=
/>
Ultra Marathon – short event, day and a half, running at same time, basically trip to first checkpoint of EC
Ultimate Florida – trip around entire state of Florida, 1200 miles, includes portages. (It was cancelled this year due to drop out of competitors at last moment)
In the past Watertribe run many other races, including Lake Michigan- Lake Huron challenge, Suwannee river challenge and such.
Everglades Challenge is a flagship event and runs every year in first week of March.
Now we can get back to Randy's boat
I thought I read on the Watertribe site that it is a Gunter or Sliding Gunter rig. Archaic? Maybe not!
http:/
Hey All,
I just got acess to the forum and knew it would be buzzing. I am relaxing in Key Largo after my Dad and I's finish on Tuesday night.
I talked to Randy for a short while in the campground at the EC start while he was rigging his vessel. It was a sight to behold. I would like to clarify however that while he was planning to implement a scissoring motion of the amas and beams, he was not able to work out the kinks in time and thus the boat did NOT have this feature. The idea being that when on one tack you scissor the windward ama aft and the leeward ahead moving your CG back and your center of bouancy forward....which is good.
The race was (and still is. There are about 7 still out there in florida bay with 20-25knot headwinds forecast) a really tough one this year especially for the paddlers. Winds were generally out of the south and east which is the direction you usually want to go.
Glad to see the EC is getting the word of mouth publicity it deserves. And the Tornado and Randy I think are, in large part, responsible for this. Hopefully next year we will double our entrants! sure would being the cost of the event down.
I also want to say that as someone already pointed out, the EC was traditionally dominated by paddlers and paddle sailors (class 1 and 3) and only in the lasy few years have the class 4 boats really showen what is possible. Much reverence is held however for all those who choose kayak over sailboat. It is a different race for everyone. Personally, I'd rather relax and let the wind do that work.
Alan
sailnaway.blogspot.com
The drawing with the red wing sail in the middle of that second link from Tikipete reminds me of this...it has down pulling foils to keep it stuck down to the water, and the sail flips over the A-frame to change tacks. Has a little tiny spin pole too...that's the sterns btw. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/137079-skim.jpg)
Sounds like a good race to do on the idea for a F12 I have. With the unstayed mast where the mast is build up of loose sections of alu tube interlocking. You can easily take the mast down even when on the water this way. When push comes to shoove you can remove the middle section as sail reefed that way where you only need 4.5 mtr clearance under a bridge (= 15 feet)
A 65 kg cat would paddle really fast as well, Just take a kayak
paddle
with you and you're very good to go.
Wouter
Sound O.K. , but I doubt it'll be setting any course records, hard to see how any short waterline boat could after the way the T-teams ripped it up but still made the obstacles...
Well, I couldn't stand it any longer, so I tried to change Smythe to Smyth, but I was only able to do it on the original post. Just so you all know, Randy Smyth's last name is Smyth. He's the best catamaran sailor in the world, and I couldn't let his name go on misspelled.
Sorry about the editing. BUT IT WAS JUST PLAIN WRONG!! <img src=
alt=
/>
So get him to do an info piece on his new project. Inquiring minds wanna know!
Well, Rick and I woulda had a story, because we coulda gone to dinner with Randy and the other guys the other night down here in Key Largo, but we couldn't because Rick had another commitment. I feel bad about that, but it's one of those woulda-coulda and maybe shoulda things.
Sorry. <img src=
alt=
/>
I didnt realize he'd been crowned best in the world, when did that happen?
I guess I should have inserted the word
arguably.
Or
one of