Yes, still a stranger here, but after posting a few and reading every comment, it feels like I've gotten to know a few new friends. One post was long, really going somewhere, and then ended saying this thread 'wasn't helping'. I could not disagree more. It is arguable that everyone operates on some level of self interest, even if their proceedings seem selfless. This thread showed diversity of opinion in the extreme. I've had my understanding of the catamaran community vastly expanded just for the reading. Let me say that it is my opinion that most in the Hobie class feel an openness to the greater variety of catamaran sailors, though in the realm of racing, it is difficult to make that assertion stick because of the HCA ODP. Yet, I currently spend all of my training and recreational sailing time amongst non-hobie sailors, as well as kiters and wind-surfers. Doesn't seem to be any problem there! I believe we need a little more acceptance of realities and differences.
On another note, it can be said that cat sailing has had dramatic declines, but it is clear that the decline in all of sailboat racing in particular here in the US has declined to an even greater degree. On the One-Design scene, the H-16 is the envy of the Yacht Clubs here in the west. Some are stuck in their jealousy, and others are embracing us for the first time, and we're finding new venues and opportunities. I raced three weeks ago in a Hobie Points Regatta at Long Beach by Alamitos Bay Yacht Club among Thistles, F18's, Finns, as well as 3 other dinghy classes. All thanks to the last revision to the HCA One-Design Policy that Chris Wessels and Bob Merrick brought on. Our H-16 fleet boasted 14 boats. Yes, one of the largest OD classes. The best part, as a result of the ABYC experience, there was a new H-16 racer from Long Beach who came to the San Diego Classic and is on fire. We're all doing our best I guess. It's great to get some results once in a while too.
and now they wont let the WAVES sail in the race to cuba. Maybe I will enter the TYBEE next year and see
I double dog dare you...
..Triple dog dare ya!
ah, yes. The double dog dare....
We were accepted into the Delta Ditch run this year as our own fleet. F-18 was the second largest
one design
fleet. Our own scoring . Thanks to Richmond Yacht club, Stockton Sailing club and The Ditch Run Orginizers.
Maybe here on the left coast the mono guys are accepting us , but we do have sailors involved in some of the yacht clubs.
On the right coast, the Yacht clubs have welcomed us as well, its only Hobie that does not accept us. I dont mean to slam anyone with that statement, nor am I trying to rehash the whole bad blood thing, but as I read your post about monohulls and being accepted, it donged on me where the acceptance and denial fell.
Most of us have joined Yacht Clubs and brought that Catamaran enthusiasm which breathed new life into the whole club. The monohullers are not only tolerant, but appreciative that we have come to help them with thier regatta's and brought new regatta's to their club. There are still some monohull purists out there, but we are winning them over slowly but surely.
Triple dog's
go first.
Gordo, Great post! Thanks for chiming in, and for your service to the sailing community.
Hey Thanks Dave. There hadn't been a negative Hobie comment in a few pages, but thanks for hitting us again. I was starting to get a good feeling about things again, but it passed as soon as I read your post. <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />
the truth hurts my brother, sorry for being honest.
Triple dog's
go first.
Allready got 3 Tybees notched. Next.
Most of us have joined Yacht Clubs and brought that Catamaran enthusiasm which breathed new life into the whole club. The monohullers are not only tolerant, but appreciative that we have come to help them with thier regatta's and brought new regatta's to their club. There are still some monohull purists out there, but we are winning them over slowly but surely.
Dave, how true and all the best to any class that has realized, and is pursuing, this avenue...it's working in middle america as well. <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
IMO, the Hobie 16 Class Association of North America may some day morph into the Hobie 16 & Wildcat CANA, but that will do little more than provide more events for Wildcat teams to race. The F18 class will never be brought
into the fold
.
resistance is futile - you will be assimilated.
Gosh o'modey...it's Friday.
Wow! I guess racing is racing in whatever form you choose. Be it cars, motorcycles, ect. I engage in activities that use vehicles ie H16, windsurfers, motorcyles but avoid racing for ALL OF THE ABOVE posts. It always seems that racers just want to bicker instead of have fun. I understand racers need to race and how acute it is.....but dang it sure gets in the way of a good time. Now if you will excuse me, Im gonna go have some fun on my boat. Im gonna try trolling for fish while sailing wish me luck. Sometimes ya got to go slow to catch the fish.
I've done that. My son and I casted for Crappie between races at Big Marine Lake in Mn a few years back.
Tx246:
Racing will make you a better sailor. You have to learn to get form point A to B, not just reach out and reach in like most recreational sailors do. Not that you don't know how to sail.
Doug
Racing doesn't make you a better sailor, it makes you more aware of the rules. Racing points out what you may do wrong but I can't see why you think it makes you a better sailor. Training and experience make you a better sailor. Turning cans is all about ego, who can do it faster. Thats all any kind of racing is about, whos faster. I race mtn bikes downhill and dual slalom and I can assure that the best, most technical racers rarely win. Its the ones that let it all hang out that can go the fastest, usually out of control.
The best days on a cat have nothing to do with racing!
Racing doesn't make you a better sailor...
Disagree. Racing sharpens the skills that make recreational sailing more pleasurable.
What? don't you point, reach, tack and jibe when sailing recreationally? Other than rounding a static mark what exactly do you learn while racing that can't be learned otherwise? Racing requires a special knowledge that has no application in recreational sailing. Sure, you need to know the basic rules of the water to sail anywhere, but you don't need to know rounding rights, overlap, windward/leeward to enjoy sailing a catamaran.
I'd suggest that there are plenty of cat racers who do not want (and don't) bicker and do have fun. A small noisy minority of Internet sailors may not be representative of the broader church of catamaran racing. You should try some fun shorter distance races - great cameraderie, fun sailing and fun partying before during and afterwards before dismissing the concept of racing. Then try some buoy racing - at first it can be an exercise in frustration making it around the course efficently and finishing a long way behind the leaders, but this is because buoy racing is merciless for exposing gaps in peoples boat handling/tuning/trimming - but it is also a great way of improving all this and the vast majority of racers are eager to help you improve. Eventually you may find you are hooked on racing (I am a hopeless adict).
Chris.
The best days on a cat have nothing to do with racing!
My experience is the best sailors are the fastest. Being a wild man/woman and pushing the edge without all the skills of reading wind/water, tuning your boat, good strategy and tactics and flawless boat handling normally results in lots of entertainment for spectators and a lot of swimming for the individuals concerned.
For many of us the best days on a cat have a lot to do with racing - the great combination of being at one with the wind and waves, the team work on the boat, friendly but serious competition with others and the cameraderie before and after the race.
What? don't you point, reach, tack and jibe when sailing recreationally? Other than rounding a static mark what exactly do you learn while racing that can't be learned otherwise? Racing requires a special knowledge that has no application in recreational sailing. Sure, you need to know the basic rules of the water to sail anywhere, but you don't need to know rounding rights, overlap, windward/leeward to enjoy sailing a catamaran.
Racing skills come in pretty handy if you're trying to beat a storm back to the beach, or trying to reach the beach before sundown and the
no seeums
come out.
The competitive nature of racing hones those skills. For instance the racer who picks-up a subtle current or persistent shift is rewarded immediately and learns to look for them.
I have participated in different forms of racing(dirt track, motocross, and other offroad dirtbike stuff and it always some form of drama...especially at the front. I love my dirtbikes and ride on mototracks on practice days, ride offroad all of the time.
I agree that
racing
will make you a more efficient sailor but as long as I get to where I want, Im happy. Racing in any form will always raise
equipment
and
rules
issues as yall have here. Im sure the after parties are great and the friendships are real. I understand the need to be the fastest, but I dont subscribe.
Im sorry if my previous post implied racing isnt worthy. We all have better boats and technique because of racing. I was trying to point out that Cat racing has the same level of drama as other forms of racing and like all in all cases, thats a shame.
I am a member of a dirtbike forum that used to host an annual weeklong event where people came from all over the country for a bunch of riding and facetime. We rented a prominent motocross facility that had trails for the off road crowd. The week was a blast. All speeds and talents, friends riding with friends, camping and bsing till wee hours of the morning. On Saturday there were
races
and I never saw so much griping over 5 dollar trophies. These events grew to 350 riders which required lots of volunteer/prep before the event. In the end, the lack of appreciation for the efforts of the organizer, killed the event.
Racing is rarely, just finding out about who is fastest.
Racing is rarely, just finding out about who is fastest.
+1
Racing is rarely, just finding out about who is fastest.
+1
Thats pure BS! If not there to win why race at all. Its not free! If I am on a line to start in any event its about winning, pure and simple. Not that I always win but I always think I can!
I agree with most of what you guys are saying but I also believe -nothing- will get the adrenaline pumping like real, tight, windy, racing. Racing forces you to perform under pressure, pressure you will never face when you are out
cruising
.
When I first got into sailing some 30 years ago, I had no intention of racing, in fact, my first boat was a peice of crap but cheap. My girlfriend and I were just going to cruise but I had no idea how to sail.
I wanted to take some lessons and learn to do it right but I didn't know who to talk to, so I approached a guy on a dock who was putting away his (racing) boat. He took one look at my ride and said,
Sell that thing and get one of these, you will learn more in one year of racing than in 3 years of goofing around in that thing.
Well I eventually sold it, bought a racing boat, and after 3 years racing, working my way up from the back of the fleet, slowly learning, I finally beat him. It might have been that I had his daughter as crew that day, and she was telling me exactly what he would do and when. ;^)
The truth of it is, racing improves your skills, because you push yourself and you also get to watch and learn from the better sailors, who BTW, are also racers and builds your confidence for when you are not racing.
And there's the beer.
I've taught my daughter two basic principles:
1. The game is more important than winning.
2. Playing fair is more important than the game.
I know and have sailed with a lot of people who say (very emphatically) that they don't race unless they can win. I of course accept that philosophy exists, but don't ascribe to it.
1. The game is more important than winning.
2. Playing fair is more important than the game.
Maybe it is easier to teach that to a daughter than to a son? <img src="<>/confused.gif" alt="confused" title="confused" height="15" width="15" />
When I was growing up, my father had a boat and I did a fair amount of sailing on it. I thought I was an able sailor when I bought my first boat, but I discovered otherwise when I first tried to race it. Being an entire lap of the course behind when everybody else had finished quickly demonstrated how much I had to learn. So, I set out to improve. My skills increased to where I was not always last. Then I would pick a sailor who regularly beat me and try to beat him. I kept that up until I was regularly in the lead pack. I even won a few races.
While I was improving, It didn't bother me not to win. It was obvious that I couldn't. Once I started, though, I began to race only to win. When I didn't win, I wasn't happy - and that was almost every race. My sailing ability had reached a plateau and it wasn't fun. So, I made a conscious decision to turn things around. I disregarded the finish positions and instead strove to (1) sail as well as I could, and (2) enjoy sailing the race instead of its outcome.
Racing became fun again. I stopped blaming others for my mistakes. I stopped cursing bad luck. I learned to get over setbacks. Surprisingly, I also broke through the plateau and my skills have improved ever since.
I am still very competitive on the water, and I have studied the rules to better play the game, but winning is not my goal - enjoying the sport is. Trophies are nice, but they are the keepsakes to comemerate the event, not the purpose for attending.
Racing has definitely made me a better sailor. More importantly though, racing gets me out on the water. I wouln't sail anywhere near as much without it.
Just my perspective,
Eric