H18 vs 570 vs 580

Welcome to TheBeachcats.com saskh18!

It sounds like you've considered the issues pretty well. I'm a Hobie 18 fan but agree the daggerboards and jib traveler can be a pain.

That said, adding wings to the H18 makes it a unique people hauler, more room than practically anything else. Something to consider since you already have the boat.

Do you have the upgraded (post 1987) rudder system with the plastic cams? If not, that is a huge upgrade especially in a shallow lake. That improved system is one of the best kick-up systems around.

The 570 is a nice boat, a newer design, and no daggerboards. If you get a later model or new one you can get the 570 Sport which has a factory spinnaker system, which would definitely add some excitement and learning curve.

What part of the world is your shallow lake? How big is it? You might find some other local sailors here you didn't know about.

570 or Mystere 5.5
can add a spin for real downwind fun

Edited by MN3 on Aug 25, 2021 - 05:06 PM.

saskh18: Just PMed you as it's possible I'll be in your neighborhood this weekend.

I currently have a 1985 Hobie 18 in fairly good shape but I would like to upgrade to a more modern design.
I'm looking for:
1. More volume since a like to bring 1 or 2, about 530lbs max.
2. Uncluttered tramp
3. Kick up or no daggers, I sail on a shallow lake.
4. needs to be fast or at least feel fast since I don't race anyone.

Higher hull volume definitely becomes an issue in catamarans made after the end of the Hobie 18 production run. I have have had 4 adults (plus cooler) on a Hobie 18 and it still sailed decently. I cant think of a modern hull design of the same length that will carry as much weight as your Hobie 18. Dont underestimate the impact of adding wings. You can trap out farther and it is instantly more comfortable.

If you want more performance I think adding wings and a spinnaker kit to your H18 is a better bang for your buck than a more modern boat which will come with a new set of constraints like weight capacity, rigging complexity, and trailerability due to width.

Just some thoughts. Please keep us posted on what you decide.

Thanks,
Brad in Jacksonville
2x Stiletto 27, one for sale soon.

Sounds like you've pretty much made up your mind on the 570. It's the only boardless cat 18ft or bigger that is still in production. I believe it's a little faster than a H18, has more hull volume and speaking from experience is easier to set up than the Hobie. If I were a young man I'd buy a new one tomorrow. Used ones aren't to common and that's the big disadvantage when compared with the Hobie. All three of these are fast and speed difference won't be noticeable unless you're sailing alongside other boats. The faster 5.8 with it's high aspect ratio dagger boards will be a little more close winded of course but who cares? The Hobie's boards aren't as deep and are raked back a little so you're less likely to do a lot of damage when you're going fast and not paying attention. Don't get the idea that the Nacra 5.7 and 570 have a lot in common. Other than being the same size, the only similarities are the hull shape below the waterline. The 570 has a much improved rudder system and I also like it better than Hobie's. Don't know if you can put wings on a 570 but it seems like I remember you can on a 5.7.

DamonLinkous wrote: Welcome to TheBeachcats.com saskh18!

It sounds like you've considered the issues pretty well. I'm a Hobie 18 fan but agree the daggerboards and jib traveler can be a pain.

That said, adding wings to the H18 makes it a unique people hauler, more room than practically anything else. Something to consider since you already have the boat.

Do you have the upgraded (post 1987) rudder system with the plastic cams? If not, that is a huge upgrade especially in a shallow lake. That improved system is one of the best kick-up systems around.

The 570 is a nice boat, a newer design, and no daggerboards. If you get a later model or new one you can get the 570 Sport which has a factory spinnaker system, which would definitely add some excitement and learning curve.

What part of the world is your shallow lake? How big is it? You might find some other local sailors here you didn't know about.

I'm located in Saskatchewan Canada, lake is maybe 12' deep, 10miles long.

I don't have the new rudders and actually broke one last week when it locked back down by accident. Can the wings be attached to any H18, even a 1985 Coleman? I'll look into the rudders and the wings. Thanks!

I cant think of a modern hull design of the same length that will carry as much weight as your Hobie 18.

mystere 5.5

1. More volume since a like to bring 1 or 2, about 530lbs max.
2. Uncluttered tramp
3. Kick up or no daggers, I sail on a shallow lake.
4. needs to be fast or at least feel fast since I don't race anyone.

Mystere 5.5 - not sure about Saskatchewan but lots of mystere in canada (that's where they are made)
Supercat 17
dart 20 (need lots of wind)
Nacra 5.7

MN3 wrote:

I cant think of a modern hull design of the same length that will carry as much weight as your Hobie 18.

mystere 5.5

So a H18 can carry more than a 570?
From what I can tell the 570 hulls have way more volume than a H18.

saskh18 wrote: I don't have the new rudders and actually broke one last week when it locked back down by accident. Can the wings be attached to any H18, even a 1985 Coleman? I'll look into the rudders and the wings. Thanks!

Your old rudder blades can be used with the updated rudder castings. The upgrade kit comes with a template for the new gudgeons.

Yes, either the older Magnum wings or the newer longer SX wings can be attached to any Hobie 18. A real Hobie 18 SX also came with an 18 inch taller mast and vertical cut mylar sails.

I've been sailing a H18 since 1991 and have had wings of both kinds for most of that time. I've also carried over 500 pounds many times since I'm half of that by myself.

With the wings you can easily sail with four onboard, sitting on the wings is comfortable and it's easy to carry non-sailors. Years ago I launched through the surf with my parents, Mom on one wing and Dad on the other, they never had to move when tacking, just me.

saskh18 wrote: [quote=MN3]

I cant think of a modern hull design of the same length that will carry as much weight as your Hobie 18.

mystere 5.5

So a H18 can carry more than a 570?
From what I can tell the 570 hulls have way more volume than a H18.

NACRA 570s are another 1980s boat with similar hull volume to a H18. Cats became more performance oriented in later generations with lower volume (more efficient) hulls, more complex rigging and the start of mass manufacturing with composite materials.

I dont know much about Mystere Catamarans, sorry.

My 1989 H18 has wings, which I love. I'm 57 years old, 210 lbs., and routinely sail her with me and my family of 4, so 4 total on the boat.
I sit on the hull at the stern, lean on the wing, and move back and forth as we tack. My forward passengers sit on the wings and never move. I trade places with the rear passenger, opposite of me, who sits on the hull or the wing, their preference.

The 4 of us weigh in at 720. The boat does fine in 10-15 MPH. I'd put another 50 lbs. on the boat and it would do fine, I'm sure, particularly in more wind.

Thanks for all the input!

I'm going to order the new post 1987 rudders and try to find some wings. The wings look like they may be hard to find, especially in western Canada. Nothing on Kijiji or Ebay. I'll keep my eyes open and hope to find some before next sailing season.

Stupid question. Has anyone pulled the dagger boards out and capped/plugged the holes off? The boat sails fine with the daggers in the up position. I don't race so up wind performance doesn't mean much to me. With the daggers down the boat almost sails into the wind too much. Yes I am new to sailing but I feel like the H18 with daggers up sails very similar to my old H16.
I'm just looking for new ways to increase room and make beaching easier.

I'm still on the look for a 570/580.

Thanks.

Based on your OP the 580 will handle the weight maybe slightly better than the H18, and has more hull volume. It has centerboards but sails like crap with them up (experience). If you want to get away from the boards than go the skeg route.

Maybe staying with the H18 and find some wings is not a bad option.

? The boat sails fine with the daggers in the up position. I don't race so up wind performance doesn't mean mu

you maybe able to sail it pretty well with the boards up but there are times this will not work well
i.e. if you get into upper air limits or just heavy air ...

you will slide so much to the side you may not be able to make forward motion
also will kill you if you ever get into strong currents

boards are an inconvenience to everyone yet they are still a part of EVERY race boat
if they are that big a deal to you - you need a skeg boat

you maybe able to sail it pretty well with the boards up but there are times this will not work well
i.e. if you get into upper air limits or just heavy air ...

We got use to sailing my friends Supercat 20 without boards to the point we left them at home. Sailed out to a barrier island and camped. Woke up to wind in the mid 20's coming from the direction we wanted to go. She wouldn't do anything more than a reach. Sailed 20 miles the other direction to get to mainland to hitch hike back to our car. We take the boards now, or my boat that doesn't use boards.

Sailed 20 miles the other direction to get to mainland to hitch hike back to our car.

YIKES

supercats are a pretty interesting design
If i have it correctly the hulls are the same design on the 17, 19 and 20 (not sure about the others)
the 17 does not have boards (unless there are versions i am unaware of) and the 19 and 20 do

I have sailed both the 17 and 19 in real wind - fun but WET ride

P.M. wrote: Based on your OP the 580 will handle the weight maybe slightly better than the H18, and has more hull volume. It has centerboards but sails like crap with them up (experience). If you want to get away from the boards than go the skeg route.

Maybe staying with the H18 and find some wings is not a bad option.

Do the swinging dagger boards on the 580 pop up, similar to the rudders?

saskh18 wrote: [quote=P.M.]Based on your OP the 580 will handle the weight maybe slightly better than the H18, and has more hull volume. It has centerboards but sails like crap with them up (experience). If you want to get away from the boards than go the skeg route.

Maybe staying with the H18 and find some wings is not a bad option.

Do the swinging dagger boards on the 580 pop up, similar to the rudders?

Yes, they are swinging kick up boards. A few comments on the 580. The 580 is NOT a 5.8. Beware of older legacy 5.8 cats wearing 580 stickers. Also, I "believe" that Nacra has discontinued the 580.

Notes: If you find a 580 you will know it's a 580 if it has swinging boards, or the D-shaped beams. Some were packaged as the "sport" which included the spin setup. There are a very limited number of these boats in existance.

I will add a picture shortly.

Edited by P.M. on Sep 01, 2021 - 09:29 AM.

This is the first Nacra 580 to hit the U.S. shores in 2007 as it is being put together.

Hawt

Ok so I found a H18 with wings and new style rudders. The add says "custom seats" that makes me think they could be home made. Can anyone confirm if they are factory Hobie Wings? and if so are they SX or Magnum.

Thanks

IIrc, the (original) magnum wings were multiple parts bolted together, and the later sx wings were single-piece welded assemblies.

Other than that, very hard to tell anything from the pics - too fuzzy.

Edited by jonathan162 on Sep 03, 2021 - 04:45 PM.

Never sailed n580 but I talked my best sailing buddy to trade up to a N570 from a 18 Hobie, and he was glad he did. We sail Great South Bay and it gets shallow so daggers a hastle. Boom- the word comes from what it does to your head if you screw up- no boom on N570. I initially sailed hobie 18 with benches/ wings（ a must) in70 Levin the Atlantic off the beach- each time we surfed in daggers had to be removed and tie down securely! However for three era the H18 was awesome and never failed us(I did not singlehanded H18 in the Atlantic.

IIrc, the (original) magnum wings were multiple parts bolted together, and the later sx wings were single-piece welded assemblies.

My wings are single piece welded assemblies, & have Hobie Magnum stickers on them that look factory.

Then I got it backwards... or they might not have been strict in the naming convention when transitioning from one to the other.

saskh18 wrote: Ok so I found a H18 with wings and new style rudders. The add says "custom seats" that makes me think they could be home made. Can anyone confirm if they are factory Hobie Wings? and if so are they SX or Magnum.

Thanks

It looks like you embedded the thumbnails for the images, so they are really fuzzy.

Could you link to the page where you found the images?

What I can, tell it looks like those are the original Magnum wings that someone has welded additional plates as reinforcements.

The way to tell original Magnum wings from SX wings, the Magnums are all welded construction and shorter, they stop at the front beam.

The SX wings are riveted together by the dealers to make shipping easier since they are much longer. They extend past both front and rear beam. Especially the front extension is great to put crew weight forward in very light air.

If you are in such high wind that you need to sit on the back end of SX wings you are in for a wild ride!

Wings in my H18. Photo in post above didn’t link, I can’t find a way to get the proper link on an iPad.
https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=120201

Those wings look to be “customized” factory wings.

The original magnum wings were bent/welded tubing with seats that were only positioned between the front and rear crossbars.

The SX wings were a bent/welded oval seat that was riveted to two support arms. The SX wings were significantly longer than the magnum wings and extended about a foot in front of the front crossbar and a foot behind the rear crossbar.

The wings in saskh18’s post look to be a custom combination of magnum and SX wings where the seat stops at the front crossbar but extends about a foot or so aft of the rear crossbar.

sm