Super Cat 17 vs. Prindle 18

Reason for no diamond wires on SC 17 is mast wall thickness is much greater. It's a very heavy mast & in my mind completely eliminates it. Very hard to raise & I'm sure harder to right. You simply do not need a furler for the P-18 jib. The boom allows you to properly outhaul the sail & set the mast rotation properly for changing conditions. The nuisance of jib blocks can easily be fixed by making slightly longer bridles & attaching to very front of bow with single bolt exactly like H-16 & scavaging H-16 jib tracks & car on front beam. I've done it on several boats. The presence of gunwale lip on P-18 allows four footloops on each side making shore handling very easy as well as security on trapeze. Been using them for 40 years & never had ankle problems. Shore handling is an important part of catamaran use.

Supercat
Pros: fun, fast - no boom, no boards (although the 19 and bigger have them) good hull design side stay adjusters extend for easier righting /can be done single handed-no bag with good technique (i have solo righted one), has customer support and parts available

(no spreaders in neither a pro nor a con in my opinion)

Cons: very heavy mast (needs 2 people or a jin pole), less deck area than an 8 or 8.5 wide boat, and VERY VERY WET RIDE in big air

P18
Pros: fun, fast , no boards, lots of spare parts around, more deck area than Supercat, much dryer boat
Cons:no company support avail

I also would recommend a furling jib on any cat that is used with kids/family for the sole reason of being able to reduce sail area / power in a pop up storm.
YMMV

If you like your current boat, put a furler on it and teach your crew how to avoid the jib gear (or position your blocks outhauled). It's nothing that 90% other cat owner deals with. PS rudders are a PITA on almost every boat

Edited by MN3 on May 23, 2017 - 10:32 AM.

I had heard the mast on SuperCats was very heavy, and for a family cruiser that may be a deal breaker right off, like Pete said. I don't see my wife helping to lift the mast, and then running around to pin it. I tend to agree with you MN3, on moving the bridle wires. I will eventually be sailing this boat in the surf, and it's not like I can find another hull just anywhere.

I see your point Pete about the boom and its purpose, but that is less important at the moment. Maybe one day I will have a family member who wants to really push the boat. I do intend to add the foot loops like you mentioned. Maybe sometime this summer I'll get to that.

The boat has a smaller tramp area than the Prindle 18 then it's out for sure. I like my space. That's why the jib blocks bother me. Maybe I will see if I can modify the setup to be more like the SuperCat's, with the blocks on the edge of the deck and use the barber hauler.

I just liked the idea of a cleaner tramp, no boom, roller furler, and the set of Cat Tracks it comes with. Cat Tracks would be sweet, but honestly I haven't had the need to use them, YET.

One of our local sailors has an SC-17. I've always liked the boat for it's performance and stability due to the very large bows. Get your wallet prepared for spare parts though. There aren't many of them around so used masts, rudders etc. are not easy to find in what I've seen.

chump23 wrote: mentioned. I like my space. That's why the jib blocks bother me. Maybe I will see if I can modify the setup to be more like the SuperCat's, with the blocks on the edge of the deck and use the barber hauler.

I just liked the idea of a cleaner tramp, no boom, roller furler, and the set of Cat Tracks it comes with. Cat Tracks would be sweet, but honestly I haven't had the need to use them, YET.

You can add a roller furler to your Prindle 18 for about $400 from Murray's... or source the part and get the shortened pig tail form them.

If your looking fro a boomles boat with a modern jib arrangement, take a look at the Nacra 5.7 or a 570 Seems to have all the requirements of your perfect boat checklist..

There is one for sale in the classifieds

Edited by JohnES on May 23, 2017 - 11:49 AM.

I've had a couple SC17's and they are by far my favorite boardless boat. The masts are heavy but I could put mine up by myself if I didn't have help around, I'm 5'6" 155lbs. As for righting, if you have problems they have shroud extenders that make it a snap. My old SC20 was rightable by one person with the extenders (there was a good bit of wind). There aren't a ton of used parts, but the boats are well built. You do not see the delam issues like other boats of this era. The factory support is still there and unmatched. They can be a wet ride, but geez you're on a catamaran!

I haven't owned a P18, so just addressing the Supercat 17.
Very hard to pitchpole as the bows are very buoyant.
Yes, the mast is heavy, but if you are storing mast up, who cares. Grab a buddy and raise it and all done for the season. If trailering, could be more of an issue if you don't have it set up with a gin pole.
Not any harder to right than other 2 man posts, with the rig it has. It does take practise, but most do.
Fast boat and I always hear that it's a wet boat, but candidly, all of them are pretty wet, and where I sail, I can use the cooling water.
Boomless, boardless.
I haven't had any issues with parts, but I also haven't broken much. Aquarius still supports the 17 and they are great people.
I love the rudder mechanism and have had almost no issues with them on two different boats. Have a spare set, and never used them.
I love the Supercats and would advise to get one, but cannot compare to the Prindle as I don't have personal owner experience.

FWIW
I'd take the 5.7 over the 2 other choices (assuming they are all in decent condition)

As the owner of a SC15, I'm biased. Go for the SuperCat17.
The mast is bigger in section so it will float,when watertight. This helps avoid going turtle in a capsize.
You have to go out of your way to submerge the leeward hull when driving the boat. It's a fast, stable boat.
I think the hull lay up is better on the SuperCat than a Prindle. I like the rudder set up better also.
I like the mast base much better than a Prindle's. With the proper rig you can raise the mast single handed.
Aquarius Sail Inc. still supports the boat. Yeah the parts are pricey. What isn't on a sailboat?
Like all the rest of the beachcats there's a dedicated owners web page with a lot of helpful members.
The designer of SC's,Bill Roberts, is still alive and sailing. He posts, at length, on the owners site.
That all being said. I was on a P19 this past Sunday. It sailed just great. I wished it had a jib furler.The decks were starting to soften up.
You own your Prindle. Any used cat you buy will send you back towards square one at least some distance in refitting.
How many cats can you fit in the yard?
Good luck, keep us posted. GH

http://owners.aquarius-sail.com/phpbb3/

Wow, great responses! As expected, consensus. There are a lot of pro-SuperCat opinions though.
This weekend will be the first time I take just the wife out. We'll see her opinions of the boat, and what she would prefer. Pray she loves it, and wants her own! 😀

With the proper rig you can raise the mast single handed.

what do you mean?

and I always hear that it's a wet boat, but candidly, all of them are pretty wet,

there is a huge difference in cats "wetness"
the supercat is especially wet - crew will get absolutely soaked, head to tow in med to heavy air and surf
conversely my mystere is very dry - i ONLY get wet when i get hit with a huge wake

Look, we all know we have our personal preferences, like I said, I don't mind the wet part of it.
To the point of raising the mast singlehandedly, I have an iteration of a gin pole and can raise it single handedly with just a bit of work. It's a heavy mast, but a lot of this stuff is relative and very subjective. My SC15 and before that, my SC 17 have been my two favorite boats, so obviously I am going to be biased, and like I said, I can't judge vs a Prindle.

Look, we all know we have our personal preferences, like I said, I don't mind the wet part of it.

I wasn't talking about preference - you stated "all of them are pretty wet" and i disagree - nothing personal, just not accurate (imho)

As per getting wet - for me: not a big deal in hot weather | a big deal in cold or crappy weather
If my boat got me soaked every sail - it would be a game changer and i wouldn't sail as often (i.e. in colder months) so it is a big factor for some

Yeah, I meant "as expected NO consensus". Wetness factor will probably be important to the wife and kids.
I wish I knew someone nearby with a SuperCa to tryoutt, hell even just any cat would be great. I have sailed around a Steletto once, but that's the only other boat I've ever seen.

MN3 wrote:

With the proper rig you can raise the mast single handed.

what do you mean?

I was referring to a mast raising rig. Not the standing rigging of the boat.

MN3 wrote:

Look, we all know we have our personal preferences, like I said, I don't mind the wet part of it.

I wasn't talking about preference - you stated "all of them are pretty wet" and i disagree - nothing personal, just not accurate (imho)

As per getting wet - for me: not a big deal in hot weather | a big deal in cold or crappy weather
If my boat got me soaked every sail - it would be a game changer and i wouldn't sail as often (i.e. in colder months) so it is a big factor for some

Not trying to create a controversy, but I have sailed hobie's (14, 16,17, 18), Mystere 5.0, Edelcat (Savage), Nacra 5.0 And 5.7 and the old sol cats and aquacats and even own a trimaran, Windrider. As well as the 2 Supercats mentioned. My experience is that if you take any of them out in 12+ knots and some decent wave action, you are going to get wet. Especially if you push their limits.
Absolutely true that the Supercat hull and setup will get you wetter than average, but again, in my opinion, what's the difference if you know you will push them in waves and decent wind. Once you are wet, you are wet, so be prepared in cold or warm weather to be wet and deal with it accordingly, with the right gear.
My main point was that all these boats have their advantages and disadvantages, depending on how and what conditions you are sailing 'em. Mine stays on the beach, so no heavy mast issue weighs in here. Would be the same if you are trailering and have a gin pole. Wanted to insure no-one worried about righting the boat due to heavier than average mast weight as the halyard releases on a Supercat take most of that away. Still have to know the basics (and practice) righting the boat, but that applies to all of these beach cats.
Candidly, if I had a Mystere or a Nacra or a Prindle, I think I would be plenty happy with them. I really like my buddy's Mystere and I like the Nacra's I have sailed. It's mostly that the Supercat fills my bill well, for reasons previously described.
The best thing we all can do when looking at changing out what we have is to sift through this website and talk to other sailors and try and get on other boats often.
I Moved from small Hobies a long time ago, because I wanted to get away from the easier to pitch pole aspect, while teaching wife and kids how to sail. That and the crazy pitch pole my wife, dog and I went through one sail where she said she would never get back on that &$@;$&@ boat again. If I ever wanted to sail with her, I had to go to a new boat. All good as I am always up for a new boat

Wanted to insure no-one worried about righting the boat due to heavier than average mast weight as the halyard releases on a Supercat take most of that away.

That would be shroud release matey.

I stand corrected.
Too much typing without checking. Operator failure

But that post moved me up to a mate, so worth the embarrassment

ARRRRGH!

As you can see from the responses there is no perfect boat, most people have the boat they have because they have the boat. 😆 And once you are used to how yours works the rest of them seem odd and not as good.

Concentrate on your statement.

chump23 wrote: Talk to me about Super Cats. As you guys may or may not be aware, I was given a Prindle 18 last summer, and after lots of work have it sorted out. I have sailed it a few times now, and always have a blast.

You've already got a great boat design for family fun and one of the simpler ones since it doesn't have daggerboards. Give yourself another season and you might not ever wan't anything else. Unless your the kind of sailor who prefers working on a boat to sailing it. (not that there is anything wrong with that)

That is great advice, Damon. I'm sure that is exactly what will happen. I just wanted to start a conversation about it. I always learn something new, or some new opinion. 😆

chump23 wrote: That is great advice, Damon. I'm sure that is exactly what will happen. I just wanted to start a conversation about it. I always learn something new, or some new opinion. 😆

Just to give you something to think about on your Prindle 18, here are some pictures of a "slightly customized" Prindle 18 fitted out as an awesome cruiser.

Including full front tramp, wings, motor mount, and cup holders! Still sailed very well since it really wasn't much weight added.

https://www.thebeachcats.com/pictures?g2_itemId=127791

<img src=" https://www.thebeachcats.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_view=core.DownloadItem&g2_itemId=127836&g2_serialNumber=3 [/img

That's freaking awesome! I want that yesterday!

Not trying to create a controversy, but I have sailed hobie's (14, 16,17, 18), Mystere 5.0, Edelcat (Savage), Nacra 5.0 And 5.7 and the old sol cats and aquacats and even own a trimaran, Windrider. As well as the 2 Supercats mentioned. My experience is that if you take any of them out in 12+ knots and some decent wave action, you are going to get wet.

All true! and i agree with just about everything you said in your posts - but get on a Mystere 5.5 or 6.0, with the very large bows and gunwale - it takes more than 12 knots to get wet. even in 20 with out waves it's a dry ride

Here is a video i took in about 15knots - not a drop on the deck -

(congrats on the new rank!)

Including full front tramp, wings, motor mount, and cup holders! Still sailed very well since it really wasn't much weight added.

looks great but like everything on a boat - pros and cons to adding all that stuff

first off: the cup holders - better fit rum drinks or it's worthless! (JK)
but front tramps area great for gear or micro people, but putting weight up there isn't usually good
also windage! wow - that front tramp adds a ton - also that "design" does not allow for anyone to get back on the boat from front (not that i think that's a good place anyway but people still prefer to board from there), nor can anyone easily help feed the mainsail into the track while hoisting

Wings - add weight behind the designed Center of Effort - making the boat a little harder to tack and making weight placement even more critical

so just keep those things in mind when you want to "pimp your cat"

Damon, can you tell us who made that custom front tramp ? Thanks

Yes, that is the question. I'm also curious how he attached the Hobie mast section as a front cross beam.