aft beam mainsheet traveller

Aaron:

We need to know the type of boat you sail. Someone out here will know the boat by heart and can advise on the proper repair. If it's a Hobie, you can even go to the Hobie website.

Wyatt

Did the car come off the end of the track or did it blow off in the middle somewhere? What kind of traveler is it? One of the newer harken travelers using torlon bearings? It sounds like it came off the middle of the track just straight up?

Sorry not alot of answers in that post, in fact on its own it looks like its a worthless piece of writting, but I'm trying to picture in my head what happened.

I sail a 1989 Nacra 5.5 uni.

The car came off in the middle of the track. Here is what happened, to be more specific:

1) A fellow sailor rigged the traveller car with a line that was a bit too thick.
2) The car snagged a rough spot on the track (possibly was angled in a funny way by the excessively thick line), and was pulled upward by the mainsheet.
3) I removed the mainsheet from the car, and pulled the car off the track.

My suspicion is that the car did not have enough ball bearings on the side that snagged.

I think your suspicion is probably right on the money, I think you would notice some obvious large damage to eigther the car or the track if it had all the bearings, those things can really take alot of load. I think the bearings are resonalby priced, If Catsailor doesn't have them Murray's does, spend the extra 3 or 4 bucks or whatever it is on a bearing loader, its a nifty little plastic job that makes life alot easier.

Those bearings are actually sort of expensive... and the loader is $12.50!

Oh well. Anything for my baby.

Thanks for the moral support!

Aaron

Those small balls are outrageously priced in my opinion! I have had the traveller blast trough the end fitting, loosing the balls in the ocean twice now. No more flimsy plastic or alu end fittings for us now, stainless steel bolts should do the trick.

You can make the 'loader' yourself if you can find a piece of identical traveller track. Just cut it so:

-------------------\
___________________\

Make the angle even more pronounced, and you can easily 'reload' your traveller car and run it over to your boats track when finished. Take care not to fill the car full, the balls need some room to circulate.
Sometimes the balls desintegrate, and you need to replace them. Sounds like you passed the critical number, and the remaining balls could not take the load. I dont think the diameter of the traveller-line have anything to do with it, the traveller car should be able to take the loads anyway.

Tieing the mainsheet to the aft-beam is a desperate move (but your only move when this happens, unless you have a spare car mounted on the track already. Like the Worrel guys did), after all, the traveller is your emergency brake when things start to go wrong so it's very nice if it's operational.

Wonder why those Torlon/Delring balls are so expensive. Are the materials so rare?

Hi Aaron

I posted a related topic a while ago that might help you out.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho... amp;Main=38282&Search=true#Post38319

I ended up washing, sanding, Mclubing and replacing the bearings which worked out fine.

Hope it helps,

In the past I have just placed a knot in the traveller so the car cannot hit the end stop !

Yes Simon, we did have a figure 8 with a overhand knot on top, but it was dragged straight trough the traveller. Needless to say that this knot is significantly larger now..
The amazing thing about our two incidents was that it was not heavy weather, and the jibes was not violent at all. Once the traveller stop broke and the knot was sucked trough, the second time one of the bolts for the mainsheet that goes trough the car broke and the whole thing was wrenched off. All the other T guys was properly impressed each time, as this sort of things always happen during regattas of course (the olympic guys had not seen either thing happen before)..

Rolf and Tim - thanks! I was actually about to ask where I could get those bearings cheaper. Thank god I don't think I need a new car... that's like $60 right there!

Simon - the stops at the end of the traveller are intact, and I had run a line to prevent the car from reaching either end. Can your cat use a stainless steel car? I really wish mine could... the Harken car is a bit chinsy. Does anyone know if that's an option for the Nacra?

-Aaron

Aaron,

It sounds like your car was missing a few bearings; I have been told of instances where the Cars have come off; but only when they were put back on incorrectly (ie with missing bearings.

Sorry, my boat uses a Harken one only IIRC

Aaron,

The bearings are 1/4" torlon bearings and can be purchased considerably cheaper at http://www.mcmaster.com - their service is awesome too. Part number is 9593K17 - I just replaced all the bearings in my traveler and have enough to replace one side of the traveler a second time for $30 (two packs of 50). Check the harken website to see how many bearings should be in the car - sounds like you may have been missing a few to begin with.

The older style Harken traveler cars do not keep the bearings captive when off the track so the special tool is pretty useful. However, (don't laugh - it worked!) I replaced the bearings in the same car on my 5.2 using K-Y jelly to keep the bearings in place while the travler was put on the track. Once installed, you can just wash the jelly away with water since the KY is water soluable.

You want to be carefull not to use a lubricant that is greasy or oily (like WD-40) because these tend to attract dust and sand over time and can cause more wear than they prevent. For long term lubrication, be sure to use a dry (silicone) lubricant or sail kote.

Jake,
Thanks for the KY tip--I just went through the nerve-racking process removing and cleaning my traveler and bearings. Boy, those bearings are hard to find in a field of tall weeds...

You can replace the bearings, but you'd be happier in the long term to replace the car. Be sure to recondition the track. And spend the $12 for the loader. You keep it permanently, and that's not much money for the ease of use that the loader provides.

You might as well learn right now that a boat is a hole in the water into which you throw money.

Second Jake's suggestion re: McMaster-Carr for Torlon bearings, and they also have stainless parts and other plastics for other marine applications. What a kewl place McMaster is...

And no, the Harken car is the only option unless you run a different track, and it's really not chintzy, especially the new ones, esp. if cared for

Stupid question probably, but I am on a mission to replace everything on this 1991 Nacra 5.5sl that I am worrying about it's age and longevity. I've replaced all mission-critical stuff like shrouds and stays and lines but now you have me thinking about this. How do you know when to replace the bearings or is it just an "ounce of prevention" item? Do you replace them regularly? I am sailing this exclusively in fresh water and so I assume my requirements for replacing would be different that yours?

Thanks
Greg

I think Performance went to the next size up traveller car for the N5.5U by 1993. You might check with Nacra to see if you have the larger traveller car. If you don't have it, I recommend you bite the bullet and get the larger car. It makes the traveller much smoother and handles the load better, allowing it to move easily under load. I upgraded my 1988 5.5 Uni the first time I had problems getting the traveller to move easily. Also, I used a little Joy detergent in a spray bottle of water to lubricate the traveller each time I put the boat together. It sure helped make the traveller reliable and free-moving.

Thanks Les.
How do I determine what car I currently have? Is there a way of identifying either the pre-1993 or post-1993 car? Larger, okay, but relative to what?

My car seems to work fine at the moment. Should I wait till I have the problem you experienced or just "bite the bullet"?

Finally, Does the Joy work better than McLube in your opinion?

Thanks. I welcome your opinions.
Greg

Greg,

When I switched, the new traveller car was wider (longer?)and carried more balls, but still ran on the same track. You might check with a local Nacra dealer or even directly with Performance Catamarans. You might contact Harken and give them the dimensions of your current track and car and ask them what is available for your track. I think their products have evolved since 1989, but Performance still uses the same track.

You can continue to use your current traveller car, but I think you will replace the balls more often to have it work well, and I don't think it will ever work as well as the larger traveller car.

I never used McLube on my traveller, so I cannot compare it to the water with a little Joy in it. The Joy is cheaper though.

There is one more factor in the smooth operation of your traveller, and that is the line with which you control traveller position. It needs to run smoothly through the roller fairlead on the traveller car. We usually had a separate, smaller diameter line for this and would tie the end of it to the end of the mainsheet. We positioned this knot so that when the traveller was all the way out, the knot would prevent the traveller from hitting the end stop. It saves wear and tear and helps to prevent what happened to Rolf (tearing off the traveller stop).

Look at the harken page for the different traveler cars - they have dimensions on them as well as the number of bearings required (the smaller cars use fewer bearings). The Harken cars are great but they are suceptible to sand and junk causing them to lock up (as would any traveler car). In the case of the newer captive ball systems (where the bearings stay in the car when it's removed) the tracks are much more sensitive to proper bearing shape. Apparently somewhere I had some debris jam up my travler that caused some tiny little flat spots on a couple of bearings. Those flat spots lead to jams where the bearings recirculate which lead to more flat spotted bearings which lead to more jams....and so on. Eventually, the traveler was very undependable (it's a year old) and it was getting scary to sail downwind with the spinnaker up (since the traveler is your last line of defense). I replaced the bearings and the thing is smoother than I ever remember it.

Yeah...I remember the first time I went "hmmm...how does this come apart"....BWINGGG ... sprinkle sprinkle sprinkle . Most of the brown colored bearings found themselves forever hidden in a recently mulched area of my yard.

Jake - thank you for the advice. I will go look up that site and invest in the ball bearings and loader.

So far, the cat has been relatively easy on the budget. I spent $20 on a thick line for raising the mast, and an enormous waste of $180 on a useless ez-step mast stepper. $40 to get a working traveller is fine; it just seems like a lot of money for tiny balls (wow that pun never gets old).

I could be wrong but I think I have the newer car. It looks almost identical to the "new" car featured on the Murray's site. It could be, however, that the previous owner purchased the new car but used the old ball bearings in it?

Greg - I'm originally from NH! I learned to sail near Lake Ossippee in Freedom, NH (albeit on my old sunfish). Seems like you're pretty close to Lake Winnipesaukee? How's the cat sailing out there?

Aaron, the small car is almost square and the larger car is decidedly rectangular. Also, a 50% greater load rating on the bigger car.

My N5.8 came with both the long and short cars, with the small car installed. The PO apparently replaced the big car because it didn't feel very good. Well, after feeling how bad the "newer" short car was and then checking how the long car felt, I had to agree. Took the long car apart, cleaned the car bearing race with a small, round, nylon brush and soap and water, rubbed all the balls clean, cleaned the track, sprayed it all down with Sailkote and the "old" car glides beautifully. The next step is going to be filling whatever little nicks I have in the track with epoxy steel and file and sand everything smooth.

Also, not sure I'd use soap as a lube. Soap, by it's very nature, attaches to dirt.

Harken traveler bearing replacement chart

Harken small boat traveler installation and maintenance sheet

I noticed that these newer cars have fixed ends as opposed to the older, removable ends. So much for taking things apart and scrubbing the race clean.

They also say not to use lube so that the balls don't slide. Hmmm, the grease in car wheel bearings doesn't appear to keep those bearings from sliding.

the newer captive bearing car has a small (squarish) copper colored wire that runs on tne inside of the ball track. All the bearings are the same between the various cars.

but if they upgraded the car, and couldn't get all the bearing back in(seen this done twice now) and just decided that is was working fine with the amount of bearings that they got in there, that might have been the cause. Pure speculation of course.

I was fishing on Lake Ossippe when you wrote this email.
I am very close to Winnipesaukee. Not much Cat-traffic on Winni but lots of people asking questions and wanting to know more. I should have Rick Bliss come up for a while.
The wind has been flukey this year and you can't tell what you are going to get one minute to the next. Light winds lately have been great to introduce this stuff to my 9 year old though. He is a trappin' fool! Sings the whole time on the wire.
Enjoy Utah, I drove through SLC in May and it is truely a beautiful place. Good sailing.
Greg

Jake, where would I find K-Y jelly?

I went to mcmaster.com for those bearings. Thanks!

Do you think I should invest in one of those car loaders?

-Aaron

Any Drug Store, probably next to the condoms

ok go ahead make fun of me knowing that.