Cool Video of H16 in Miami-Key Largo Race

Here's the I20 version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8-4Qvrv5pk&feature=related

I love it when the hat goes off!

Who was that and how fast were you guys going?

that doesn't look fun at all..

Cautionary tale, glad they made it ok - I'm a bit surprised radios aren't required equipment in this race.

It is actually in protected waters between the mainland and the Key Islets to the east. And there are three sand bars to calm the waters even more. But, when there is big wind.., hold on!

In contrast to the Key Largo Steeplechase, half of which is sailed in the Open Ocean.
Rick

22 minute video? Jeeze, that's like taping the entire race that day!

I wish i had video from that day but the suction cup for my GoPro 2.0 didnt suck enough and was lost somewhere around cuter bank.

Need to tie that bitch off somewheres. <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

Cool video? What was cool about that???

As if capsizing that far from land isn't bad enough, the crew was stuck in the rigging under the tramp for way too long, then got separated from the boat and the skipper lost sight of her for an hour?

I know, I was young and crazy once too, also spent a night upside down on a H16. I don't leave shore on a pond without a radio (attached to my life jacket) after that

cool

experience.

Mike

Holy hell. That looked like a wild ride on both videos

It was a wild ride for anybody who was brave enough to race, on any boat.

I still have greater respect for those who chose to stay on the beach rather than test the abilities of the coast guard/ marine patrol resources.

Discretion is the better part of valor

It's also the fertilizer for pansies and boredom.

Be interesting to see if the girl in the vid wishes she had stayed on the beach.

Jay and Jared Sonnenklar. Real fast.

won't play in my country due to music violation

why don't they just screen the video without audio?

anyone know if a version is posted on vimeo or somewhere without the offending audio?

So,
Is anyone interested in discussing how that team could do things better? There are quite a few points that would come up.
What they did right: they were wearing good wetsuits and their boat looked to be fairly well rigged.
Things that need improvement for sailing in a breeze:.....

well...they made it through - so job well done.

The crew didn't seem prepared that the boat could drift away faster than one can swim. this knowledge alone would have probably convinced them to hang onto that sheet they just got untangled with until they make solid contact with the hull.

(untested) I still thinking keeping a water born drag chute (typically used by fisherman and sometimes called a drift sock) on the boat is a good idea to clip on the forestay bridle and toss into the water to slow/stop the progress of the boat while capsized (and help keep it head to wind). It could have made the difference and allowed the crew to swim back to the boat and lead to a calm righting process (and given time to flip the tiller bar back over the rudders ... that sucks when that happens).

A little, loose, bunji tied from the rear beam to each rudder arm will keep them from flipping completely over the rudders leading to a real steering nightmare as seen in the video (which wasn't as bad as it could be because the skipper knew what to do there...but imagine if the boat had just been righted and the arms were crossed like that...been there, done that...it steers for crap when one arm is flipped forward and the other flipped back because the rudders turning opposite of each other and if you are in the water dragging under the boat, you're not fixing that).

Who is in this picture? I see that the crew has a camera on his head and would love to see the footage of that.

http://www.imagesbymarco.com/p425286977/h5280b8e#h223c6155

Wow, that H16 vid represents a first rate example of what NOT to do. IMO, they were very lucky that there was a rescue boat nearby that was able to find the crew and get them back together.

They should not have been out there. It was clear right from the beginning of the vid that the crew was not comfortable/experienced in those conditions. After the initial pitchpole, the crew was fumbling around on the sail, just waiting to get stuck if the boat turned turtle. It also seemed like the skipper was probably not prepared for the boat to take off after he righted it and climbed abord - he should have made sure that the boat was turned head to wind, that the rudders were locked down, and that the sheets were free before righting. He also should have made it very clear to the crew to grab the dolphin striker and not let go when the boat popped up. Maybe he wasn't expecting the boat to come up so quickly.

Once the skipper takes off on his own he is totally out of control because the tiller arms are flipped the wrong way. Once he corrects that and gybes back to the crew, his jib gets wrapped and then he's totally screwed because the jib is uncontrollable at that point, so he can't go upwind & can't tack. The only thing he can do is beam reach, gybe, and pitchpole. After the second pitchpole, he should have realized that it was absolutely necessary to un-wrap the jib before righting the boat. But it definitely looked like he was in panic mode after his crew separated. Had he cleared the jib, he would have been able to, at the very least, turn the boat upwind, go hove-to, and get himself collected.

Instead, what he does is continue to keep trying to sail the boat, pitchpole several more times, tire himself out, and continue to sail farther away from his crew. When the downhaul and gooseneck come apart, it's all over. Sailing upwind would have been totally impossible.

I would not say they made it through. They were rescued and they were just plain lucky.

sm

Anyone else notice the number of the sail? 5105:
CA Police code for crazy one on the loose. Danger to property, danger to others, and danger to themselves...

when i capsize, i usually pull out the righting bag (unless someone jumps in to help me). After i right the boat.. .the bag drags under the boat until i am aboard and pull it up. It defiantly slows the boat down (as evident by the amount of force needed to pull it up and aboard)..

I guess I should have watched it to the end. <img src="<>/eek.gif" alt="eek" title="eek" height="15" width="15" />

While I don't agree with the title Rick chose for this thread (

cool video

), I do thank him for posting it and starting this discussion. I think even the more experienced among us can learn something from this (I know I am).

Please note that not once did I say they should have stayed home, or that I would have if I were there (although truthfully, since having kids, I do weigh risks differently now).

I also didn't criticize them for being inexperienced, because I have no idea of their experience level, and that situation could have happened to any of us. Some days, stuff just gets out of control.

With the exception of the separated gooseneck and lost crew, I've been through every scenario as this poor boat (including both having and being a separated crew).

The important thing (to me) is to point out the stuff that went wrong, and list ways to manage or (preferably) avoid it, which many folks are doing now.

I mentioned that I always carry a radio. This video is making me think about giving one to my crew as well. Not only could they call for help, but if separated, it is easier for them to see the boat than for someone on the boat to see them in the water. They could be calling back to the boat:

Yes, I see you, you need to turn left to get back to me...

I have also been in the situation of the rudders flipped off the back after righting, also in heavy air (NOT fun). After righting, you have just about zero control. Sheeting in the main would get you closer to head-to-wind, but it's very difficult to reach the tiller arms without flipping backwards. It's amazing how fast a Hobie 16 will travel with the tillers flipped and the sails fully eased. It has never occurred to me to lock the rudders down while the boat was capsized.

I would love someone to test the sea anchor concept, scientifically, and post a video here. On a windy day, take a power boat (for taking video and picking up the crews if needed), two identical cats (one with a sea anchor, one without), flip them simultaneously near one another, and see if the sea anchor actually allows a crew to swim back to the boat.

In this case (intentionally or not), the skipper did a good job of keeping the boat from turtling when the crew was trapped. However, I think they got lucky, because it looked like he went to help her, based on the camera angle changes.

For those that don't know this, a Hobie 16 is fully capable of righting itself in these conditions. You can be bobbing in the water next to it when it happens. So, not only is it important to know how to right a boat, it is equally important to know how to stay in control of it when capsized. You need to know how to turtle on purpose, to keep from turtling, to right it, to keep it from righting. I don't think enough people practice all of these skills.

Mike

PS: Yes, the sail number was one of the first things I noticed, and did appreciate the irony.

EDIT: It's hard to tell from the video, but it almost looked like the leeward rudder kicked up, starting the downward spiral that led to the first capsize. That could have been due to a bad cam tension adjustment, or from hitting something in the water. Did anyone else notice this?

It probably kicked because of seaweed. I had to clear our rudder 4 or 5 times that day because the seaweed was causing the rudder to cavitate.

Joe

I also recommend we be careful to criticize anybody on here. I could easily have been in the same situation when I first started sailing. Experience is not obtained easily and you can bet these guys will be better off for it next time.

There are dozens of points that can be made from this video.
Hobie 14,16, and 18's can be sailed for fun in this kind of wind once you know how. Many races over the years have been held in similar conditions, but with waves.
This is meant for informational purposes and not criticism.
A good captain should first brief an inexperienced crew. Explain to them that if they go over to make very sure to hold on to the boat because they will not be able to swim as fast as the boat will drift. Tell the crew that if the captain falls off the boat to dump the sails and head into the wind. Also when out on the wire to hold onto the chicken line and keep the jib sheet in their hands and be ready to dump the jib.
If they go over in that wind the crew should hold onto the low hull in front of the main beam because 1 person can easily right the boat. Once sure the top hull is coming down the guy on the righting line should go for the bottom hull in front of the beam. You don't want to end up under the tramp. it can be a battle to keep the boat from tipping over the other way so you need to be ready for that.

His jib track should have been all the way out and the jib was over sheeted for what they were doing. Sure the tell tales were flowing, but his main was back-winding. Use the main first then the jib. Especially on a H16 because the mast can counter rotate the way they were sailing which can cause it to break whilst double trapping.
His rudder cams looked like they could be tightened judging by how easily the rudders were popping up.
It is possible to single hand a H16 in that wind from my experience (155lbs). You can sail to windward and tack. The jib is luffing some what and the main traveler is down past the hiking strap; maybe all the way out. You need to be out on the wire and you can build up enough speed to tack(back tack). Gybing to go pick up your crew that is upwind of you is not a good plan. Turtling the boat may have slowed down the drifting. A sea anchor sounds interesting, maybe in conjunction with turtling. You better be confident the mast doesn't leak though.
Generally you should tie off the outhaul on the boom in that wind because you aren't going to be using it and it can slip. You want that sucker as tight as possible.
His downhaul looked like it could have been a bit tighter also. In that wind you want to depower to the max so that you can be aggressive.
That is enough for now. thanks

Hi BRu,
I am like Jake, I watched the first part, but didn't even see any capsize. Sorry about the title
Rick

Bingo.

Makes sense. Thanks again for posting the video.

Mike

I don't disagree with the title, I still think it's a cool video - it's actually a great video. It shows a lot of things to learn from.