Agree to disagree...
I can see why people stopped watching after a little while, it was repetitive and boring. I was wondering why anyone would post 20+ minutes of sailing along on a reach, so I started moving forward through the clip. When I got to the capsize, I thought,
GREAT, another let's make fun of how much Hobie 16s flip video.
It was when I saw the crew stuck in the rigging that my stomach literally turned. She got out, then the skipper was focused on fixing the rudders, there was another capsize somewhere along the way, etc. I was looking for the crew and always just assumed she was still there and the skipper was too busy to look at her. The music concealed any attempt at making sense of what they were saying at the time.
When I saw the Sea Tow boat show up with the crew, and read the account of how he lost sight of her for an ENTIRE HOUR is when it really went into a whole new version of uncool for me.
Mike
yeah, that tweaked me too. I would have been scared as hell if I were that guy looking at his crew tangled in the rigging.
Agree to disagree...
I can see why people stopped watching after a little while, it was repetitive and boring. I was wondering why anyone would post 20+ minutes of sailing along on a reach, so I started moving forward through the clip. When I got to the capsize, I thought,
GREAT, another let's make fun of how much Hobie 16s flip video.
It was when I saw the crew stuck in the rigging that my stomach literally turned. She got out, then the skipper was focused on fixing the rudders, there was another capsize somewhere along the way, etc. I was looking for the crew and always just assumed she was still there and the skipper was too busy to look at her. The music concealed any attempt at making sense of what they were saying at the time.
When I saw the Sea Tow boat show up with the crew, and read the account of how he lost sight of her for an ENTIRE HOUR is when it really went into a whole new version of uncool for me.
Mike
I'm still glad it's there and public - we're talking about it and several people are probably learning from it. You can just as easily have these problems on any other catamaran or sailboat for that matter. I've been a rookie sailing distance races and in situations that were beyond my experience level - we all have....if you boil the
inexperience
down, it is situations that we didn't have the foresight to predict and don't have a plan to keep it from happening or a planB ready if it should. I've been in a couple scary, potentially life threatening, situations that I don't ever want to see again and I go to pretty great lengths to avoid those or have a plan ready if they happen. If one video can help us have an intelligent discussion about ways to make ourselves safer without having to experience it first hand, and help provide some foresight to folks that want to do these kinds of things, it's a great video in my book...and it did end well.
It's obvious to me that we've had very similar experiences, and are saying the same basic things (the discussion is great, the video was very good as a learning tool), I just would have used a word other than
cool.
Mike
Me too!
You assholes make it sound like you've never been stupid! CLASSIC!
Jake,
Did any of these happen to include pajamas,beach wheels, a half hoisted main, and an absence of drain plugs?
no...that was reputation threatening!
Sorry if I somehow came across that way, but I did you miss that I once spent the night bobbing in the Atlantic, on the bottom of a Hobie 16? If so, go back to post 9 in this thread.
In case you still think there was no stupidity leading into that, note that I was alone, without a radio or flares, wearing only a bathing suit, T-shirt, sneakers and a PFD. No food or water. Went out in a small-craft rainstorm. Third time ever on a Hobie Cat, and first time alone. Had never righted a boat before.
Capsized at 3:30 pm (in hindsight, sailed too high, the jib backwinded, and I tried to fight it to go back instead of just tacking the boat). Boat turtled. Had a righting bag, but didn't know how to use it or right the boat alone (at all, for that matter). After giving up on that, I remembered seeing a picture of a
shroud extender
in the catalog, so I thought I could rig something up on the water. As soon as I got one of the shroud pins out, I dropped it in the water.
Now, the boat is turtled and dismasted. After that hour of attempting to
fix
things, I spent the next 12 hours drifting, over 15 nautical miles along the southern coast of Rhode Island.
Got picked up at 4:30 am, by a passing yacht (172 footer, with a helicopter on the rear deck; yes, that part was cool). Got most of my boat back the next day, in pieces (apparently the CG wanted to make sure they didn’t have to go out after my sorry self ever again)…
I did do a few things right:
1. Told people that I was going sailing. Of course, they called the police first when they realized I was missing, who did nothing. By the time the CG was alerted, it was after midnight and they wouldn't send anyone out until daylight.
2. During the whole situation, didn't panic. I was fully convinced someone would come looking for me. Or, at the very least, someone would come out to go fishing and come across me.
3. Stayed with the boat (was about a mile offshore when I first capsized, some people would have tried to make that swim).
4. Took the main off the mast and wrapped myself in it as I tried to balance on the keel of one of the Hobie 16 hulls (yes, that sucks more than you can imagine, hurts and saps your energy). The sail did keep the wind off me.
5. Lots and lots of praying...
And in case that wasn’t stupid enough for you, after that I immediately bought another Hobie 16, a radio and wetsuit. Then, feeling completely immortal, I used to go out alone, with the radio tied to the tramp (i.e. not tied to me), while I trapped out on screaming reaches (offshore yet again), on a $1500 boat, the rigging of which should have failed at any given time.
If that wasn’t stupid enough, I would put my front foot on the back of the rear crossbar, with my back foot at the rudder, in an effort to keep the nose up and to keep from flying forward on the waves. Again, if it wasn’t blowing small-craft, I usually didn’t want to go out.
More than once, the New York YC signal boat would sail by and just shake their heads at me…
At the time, that was the most fun I could ever imagine having. Now, I can’t believe I ever lived through it. Would I trade it in to sit ashore? No way, just wish I would have been a bit more thoughtful…
Has anyone here ever NOT forgotten their drain plugs at least twice? You’re due.
Did you ever give an International Judge a rubber duckie bath mat for his mark boat? In front of everyone at the awards ceremony for a 8-day Hobie NAs?
Mike
The fact that the camera is following the guy's
eye line
to see what he sees throughout is incredible. I assume that the video would not have been posted if something tragic happened.
Having to rush to right a boat is a dangerous situation, in my opinion. If he could have rested on the capsized boat and pulled all together including fixing the harness problem (at least temporarily) then I think everything might have gone better.
In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.
I don't understand why race organizers didn't bail...
In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.
Why, I think turtleing the boat would have been a good idea as soon as his crew got free and was becoming separated.
In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.
Why, I think turtleing the boat would have been a good idea as soon as his crew got free and was becoming separated.
That might have been a PlanB ... but, if the boat was already oriented with the mast pointing into the wind, I'm not sure if he could have spun or turtled the boat intentionally at that point.
In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.
Why, I think turtleing the boat would have been a good idea as soon as his crew got free and was becoming separated.
I assume that the crew would not have gotten separated if he did not have to worry about righting the boat, and preventing a turtle.
To not have to worry about turtling would have given him time to get her on the boat, and the harness fixed at least temporarily. If you have to turtle a boat, then carry pliers and either take a pin out or cut the shroud. I got a nice pair of linesman pliers. At that point, though, it's really Plan B, as Jake said.
To stop these kinds of
cascade
/
slippery slope
series of problems takes a couple of minutes to pause in a calm, safe place and get things back in order. I have heard it said often: If the boat capsizes, don't let go of it.
That said, how could he have gotten the boat to stay into the wind in those kinds of conditions and taken a look at the rudder?
I am sorry but those conditions did not look that bad. what was the wind range that day?
I am sorry but those conditions did not look that bad. what was the wind range that day?
Gusts to 30 or better.
In conditions like that maybe a mast float should be a requirement.
Why, I think turtleing the boat would have been a good idea as soon as his crew got free and was becoming separated.
I assume that the crew would not have gotten separated if he did not have to worry about righting the boat, and preventing a turtle.
To not have to worry about turtling would have given him time to get her on the boat, and the harness fixed at least temporarily. If you have to turtle a boat, then carry pliers and either take a pin out or cut the shroud. I got a nice pair of linesman pliers. At that point, though, it's really Plan B, as Jake said.
To stop these kinds of
cascade
/
slippery slope
series of problems takes a couple of minutes to pause in a calm, safe place and get things back in order. I have heard it said often: If the boat capsizes, don't let go of it.
That said, how could he have gotten the boat to stay into the wind in those kinds of conditions and taken a look at the rudder?
I've had the boat capsized and the rudder arm kicked over on the I20 once (it was a similar kind of day). I couldn't get the arms flipped back while the boat was on it's side. That's why I expect to tie a small piece of bunji from the rear beam to the rudder arms (dangling loose) to keep them from flipping over next time I'm expecting any weather like that.
Cancelling a race is the most difficult decision to ever make. You'll never please everyone (especially Hobie 16 sailors) unless it's solidly over 30 knots.
Gusts to 30 knots at this event? I know that's what he said on youtube, but has that been confirmed somewhere?
It never looks as windy in the video or pics as it feels at the time.
Most sailors ALWAYS over-estimate the wind speeds in anything over 10 knots. Really good sailors, anything over 15.
I have to stop watching that video. I just saw that another boat sailed by while he was alone and capsized. Of course, they may have been the ones to go and get help from the Sea Tow boat?
Mike
Numerous statements of that nature is what kinda pisses me off about this thread. You're getting uncomfortable watching a video? Holy bleeding hearts Batman! We've all done similar things, and we've all risked our butts being dumb in different sports and lived to tell about it. I was a total wild butt on a motorcycle back in the day. Triple digit lane splitting while riding wheelies? AWESOME! Would I do it again? f*ck no.
So while some of you chastise their experience, and get all wishy washy at the sight of a trap line wrapped around a leg, I bet that chick is a little better at falling off the boat next time. Which doesn't mean squat, I still get wrapped up in stuff occasionally in a capsize, just like probably anybody else.
You don't learn anything unless you push yourself. Humans, like almost all animals, learn the best through pain. Whether physical, or emotional, we tend to avoid those experiences that make us uncomfortable once we have. Depending on the personality they'll come back for more, or they'll do something else. These guys didn't push themselves too far, (don't argue that with me, they lived), but they probably came close to the edge. I doubt that's even a reality for them yet, but same day it will be, and they might look back and go,
damn, I'm lucky I made it out of that
, or.... They learn from it, and go
damn, that was fun, and I dragged a lot of useful info out of that.
There is nothing wrong with risking your life in the name of entertainment if you choose to do so. If you're not of the adrenaline junky type and you don't want to drowned, either grow gills or stay off the water. Don't want to freeze to death in a crevasse, don't climb mountains. Don't want to go
SPLAT" when you hit the ground at 300mph, don't jump out of airplanes. Don't want to get ripped in half by a telephone pole, don't crash a motorcycle at a high rate of speed. It ain't rocket surgery.
Get over yourself, you obviously missed my last (long) post on the last page.
Mike
Mike
Screw you Mike. you're not the only one whining like a bitch on this.
So eloquent, as always Karl...
I may not be the only one discussing it, but you did aim your last barb directly at me by quoting my post.
Mike
Eloquence is for Shakespeare, Plato, and Thoreau.
Yours was the easiest quote.
Here's a question for you Mike. Would you rather have returned to the beach that day, and have no idea what would've happened, and what you would have gleaned from that experience? Or would you have done it again?
I bet it was one of those defining moments for you.
Well, we're a little different, and that's OK...
Yes, I really wish I would have gotten back to shore on that day without being stuck out overnight and losing a beautiful boat in the process.
While you are correct that I probably wouldn't have as quickly learned how important a wetsuit and VHF are, I think there are much better ways to learn what I did that night...
Mike
I am sorry but those conditions did not look that bad. what was the wind range that day?
Gusts to 30 or better.
wow the lack of white-caps and big breaking waves made me think much less...
Thats because it was on Biscayne Bay which is very protected.
I am sorry but those conditions did not look that bad. what was the wind range that day?
Gusts to 30 or better.
wow the lack of white-caps and big breaking waves made me think much less...
I have spoken with several people who did the race this year on a wide range of different boat. Breeze of 30+ was the concensus.
Sure would be nice to have instrument (buoy) data...
Mike
Classic. Sounds like a hockey match.
Hey, sky divers do it every time they jump out of a perfectly good airplane!
Oh, and they pay a lot of money to jump out of that airplane!
But hey, what could go wrong...?
http:/
Numerous statements of that nature is what kinda pisses me off about this thread. You're getting uncomfortable watching a video? Holy bleeding hearts Batman! We've all done similar things, and we've all risked our butts being dumb in different sports and lived to tell about it. I was a total wild butt on a motorcycle back in the day. Triple digit lane splitting while riding wheelies? AWESOME! Would I do it again? f*ck no.
So while some of you chastise their experience, and get all wishy washy at the sight of a trap line wrapped around a leg, I bet that chick is a little better at falling off the boat next time. Which doesn't mean squat, I still get wrapped up in stuff occasionally in a capsize, just like probably anybody else.
You don't learn anything unless you push yourself. Humans, like almost all animals, learn the best through pain. Whether physical, or emotional, we tend to avoid those experiences that make us uncomfortable once we have. Depending on the personality they'll come back for more, or they'll do something else. These guys didn't push themselves too far, (don't argue that with me, they lived), but they probably came close to the edge. I doubt that's even a reality for them yet, but same day it will be, and they might look back and go,
damn, I'm lucky I made it out of that
, or.... They learn from it, and go
damn, that was fun, and I dragged a lot of useful info out of that.
There is nothing wrong with risking your life in the name of entertainment if you choose to do so. If you're not of the adrenaline junky type and you don't want to drowned, either grow gills or stay off the water. Don't want to freeze to death in a crevasse, don't climb mountains. Don't want to go
SPLAT" when you hit the ground at 300mph, don't jump out of airplanes. Don't want to get ripped in half by a telephone pole, don't crash a motorcycle at a high rate of speed. It ain't rocket surgery.
The most sensible post in this thread and it came from K2/ Booger , who'da thunk it.