Couldn't tell ya, I'm just regurgitating what I was fed in high school. Neither would surprise me, water has many strange qualities unlike any other element.
The Specific Heat of Water
Basic thermo.... Q = m Cp dT
Translation... Jake is right.
sm
Not sure how many times it needs to be repeated, but apparently at least one more time... the angle of the line(s) has no bearing on whether or not the boat is righted. Over the hull, under the hull, using a righting pole, holding with your hands, holding with your harness, or holding with your teeth, it makes no difference. All that matters is the horizontal distance of your center of gravity from the fulcrum (which is the center of bouyancy of the lower hull). How you get your CG into position only effects the reactionary forces on your body (your comfort level), it does not effect the righting moment applied to the boat.
It is just like the teeter-totter we played on in elementary school- the rig is at one end, you're at the other end, and the hull is in the middle. Weight times horizontal distance.
sm
If you had a proper diagram in front of you it would be obvious that your weight is 18 inches or more further out when you use over the hull and pull with your hands from above your head, which is a handy increase in leverege, in all of Scarecrows diagrams there is no righting moment at all because all of the people pictured are laying in the water.
Nothing is ever quite as simple as it seems.
http:/
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I'll leave you to do the math.
I am certain, absolutely, the best solution is one which is proven and reliable.
So what?
O is the hull, P is the butt. No line on the math
O is the hull, P is the butt. No line on the math
Return to start. For me and many others bringing a line over the hull is a simple and effective solution.
I just resist being told what works in practice doesn't really work and I should be using a different system.
If you are holding the rope with your hands there's no doubt it's better, beacause it requires less force to hold your weight. That's it. It doesn't mean it will provide more lever arm, it will just be easier for the same effect. The effect is only dependant on how far out is your weight.
Now this discussion is poitnless anyway.. Bring the line wherever you want, it's not that you are compromising anything else.
BUT.
For setting up a righting pole it is worth to realise this mathematical and empirical fact (it doesn't matter whether the line is above or below the hulls in terms of lever arm). Why? Just because it's way easier to set the lines below the hulls. Making efforts to do otherwise is pointless.
This case for instance:
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Instead of passing the line around the above hull he could just shackle it to the beams.
Like mine here:
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It has worked three times already, by the way.. two for testing and one for real
You've sold yourself on the need for an apparatus, fine. Find the right one, learn how to use and you'll have no problem.
In the mean time you make several assumptions that I'm not going to argue over.
Most of us throw a rope over the hull and do just fine.
For the complete picture: with a pole it's easier to set the auxiliary lines below the hulls!
I use even two help-lines:
One set to the middle of the beam-height running from front to aft (for keeping the pole swing-free straight out). And one line running from front to aft, attached just below the uppper hull.
Holding this line, I use it for keeping my balance when standing on the end of the pole.
The pole itself is fixed to the end of a traditional uphaul line over the upperhull (That was the easiest mounting).
I,ve said it before in this thread: please go out with a bundle of rope and try it on your cat in the water or on the beach
ronald
It is, after all, a safety system. That it works is all that really matters.
I'm reluctant to relate my experience to yours. Normally I sail in the Gulf of Mexico which usually placid, perhaps a little chop, nothing like what I imagine the North sea to be like. Just be safe. I got knocked down once in the Gulf Stream off Singer Island, the wind coming out of the north and found it very difficult to keep my footing in the resultant sea state.
Evaporative cooling and sweating
I have a few degrees here, Karl, you are also aware that sweating in a humid environment, as in building up sweat on your skin, actually limits the cooling process.
That's one of the systems the designers didn't get quite right. Once the sweat builds up on your skin, you limit the 'cooling' It has to evaporate to cool.
But the system doesn't kknow that, so when you are hotter, you sweat even more, while it is not evaporating- thus loosing even more 'water' from your system, while producing less evaporation, or cooling.
I just cleared another 3" of snow from my Boat yesterday, so yes, I'm just that bored!
In the mean time you make several assumptions that I'm not going to argue over.
Most of us throw a rope over the hull and do just fine.
I did
Ok, no arguing. Haven't seen any argument so far anyway.
To answer your comment Pete: don't be reluctant and/or impressed by the Northsea.
With regard to righting a capseized cat, a wavy condition on the northsea will always help you by lifting the masttop for free.
Normally a rope thrown over the hull will do!
Besides that, in waves there is no time for hocus-pocus.
This pole-business which I have mounted on my cat is therefor more a safety in case the uphaulrope don't work for any reason.
For instance on flat water (off shore wind). And in this situation there is also more time for the whole setup of a pole.
Starting-point for a seasailor should always be: I have to return on my own force. Avoid Pan-Pan and try to postpone untill a real mayday.
ronald
<img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />
I got whacked in the back of the head by the boom on my H16 once. I was about two miles off shore of Ft. Myers beach. It dazed me for a moment and I thought,
this is probably not a good idea
sailing alone.
You try to be safe but when it's your time...
Look Pete, when it's your time, you go anyway (hit by a car, or a wild gunshooter, or cancer, or whatever).
But sailing solo is the most satisfying thing I know.
Though it needs a special state of mind and certainly a specific concentration.
Doing it often enough, you finally endup relaxing yourself during sailing; trusting your intuition.
It certainly demands you to strive for safety in an exaggerated way.
And it will make you more prudent inside your mind then some people might think on the face of it.
This summer I plan to video one time all my safety measures on my cat, just to show this idea.
ronald
I got whacked in the back of the head by the boom on my H16 once. I was about two miles off shore of Ft. Myers beach.
Perhaps a swim noodle wrapped around the boom might have reduced the chance for serious injury?
Or a hemmit & dem shouldamapads?
or wrapped around ones head
I got whacked in the back of the head by the boom on my H16 once. I was about two miles off shore of Ft. Myers beach.
Perhaps a swim noodle wrapped around the boom might have reduced the chance for serious injury?
Or a hemmit & dem shouldamapads?
Okay, PGP was so honest to tell us about his little adventure when sailing solo.
I'm very curious to similar stories of all the other old-hands. Accidents, injuries, etc.; but only in the situation that you were alone on the tramp.
Lacking company for mental or fysical help.
Who dares.
I like to learn from it.
ronald
Damn near knock my front teeth out getting off the beach in weird shifty winds last spring
I suppose it was a swinging boom that did hit you???
Sounds familiar (broke my nose once under same conditions)
So, that's two similar experiences make a lesson. Thanks Karl
ronald
Forrest had to circle back, douse a spin, and come find my sorry butt during my
dolphin encounter
at 2011 Hiram's.
Good thing it was in the river/intracoastal so I couldn't float out to sea.
Bad thing I was wearing black and hard to find in the dark water. I could see him just fine <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
Incident occurred after a miss-timed puff pushed us over on spin reach. I didn't even get wet on that flip. I did the
Jdub-scramble
over the upper hull and sat on upper daggarboard while we got organized.
After righting, we took off again, but got a spin sheet under the windward hull. I slid forward to the bow to pull it back over the hull and slipped between the hulls into the water.
I held on to the rear beam but was getting dragged too quickly to climb back on board and didn't want to damage anything (tiller crossbar, rudder foil,etc) trying to wrestle back on, so I dropped off.
I commend the skipper for being able to execute a gybe/douse singlehanded (on a 20) in moderate (15+) breeze and come get me.
I think that rule about
having to finish with the same number of crew that you started
might have been my only saving grace....
I can't remember who it was in the Tybee/Worrell that had the skipper washed off the back... in the dark... offshore..and the crew not notice...
Was it Jake or Todd?
That was an exiting story, Jay.
But did you realize that this is exactly the ultimate nightmare of a solo sailor; loosing your boat. Slipping or being washed off.
Two questions: Did you have a lifejacket and did you have a cellphone on you?
Your story brings back my memories on similar occasions.
I have almost lost my cat in three situations. In two, I was also washed under the tramp, but because my tramp is a net, I could grap and hold myself long enough under the open-net to think of a method of working myself again on board.
The third time I was struck over the side-board falling backwards. The grabbing lines which I mounted over the lenght of both hulls saved me this time.
Beyond this first degree safety, I always, always wear a lifejacket and a cellphone. Safety over safety.
Nevertheless, it remains a horrifying story, Jay and it brings back anxious moments.
It also learns me that being with more then one sailor, there is more risk of loosing one. So sailing solo makes that danger smaller, but creates a nightmare when it happens to the solo-sailor itself.
ronald
It wasn't nearly as dramatic as it may have sounded, ronald, but thanks for the feedback.
I guess I was confident of my self-rescue ability and was not injured so I didn't feel too much drama. I also knew that the driver was still on the boat and conditions were far from terrible.
That being said, in any distance race (point-to-point) I sail with at least:
- GPS
- VHF
- personal strobe light (attached to PFD)
- Cell phone
- Emergency kit (mirror, whistle, air horn, small flares, dye marker, inflatable dive
sausage
)
- peanut butter sandwich & energy bars
- up to 3 liters of drinking water in a hydration bladder
All fits in a 'Camelback' backpack with integrated hydration system. I have dry pouches on the electronics with lanyards attached to the pack.
This pack fits over my PFD and has both waist and chest straps to keep it secured in place on my person.
As long as I am conscious, I can use the contents of the pack to summon help or assist with others finding me.
One thing I would add if I went all
super-stud distance guy
and participated in any serious coastal or offshore sailing (like Tybee, GT-300, or when the plan is to go more than 10k offshore) would be a personal EPIRB and perhaps a second inflatable PFD stuffed in my pack to use for additional flotation if I felt it was up to me alone to get back to shore.
All of these items are useful if I remain on a boat (say after a dismasting out of sight of land, etc.) as well, but they are best on my person in the instance I were separated from the boat.
Personally, I would not be comfortable single-handing a boat beyond sight of land unless it was an emergency. Within site of land (and therefore swimming distance), I would worry that I'd never see the boat again, and have thought of rigging some sort of
kill switch
on the boat.
This
kill switch
might be a lanyard attached to me that would pull on a snap-shackle at the bottom of the mainsheet block, thereby disengaging the mainsail if I were overboard.
My only concern would be possibly having the spinnaker up if I were to fall over (single-handing). Would activating this
kill switch
damage the mast? Perhaps not, as the spin sheet would likely be running free since I'm not holding it ?
That list was quite impressive, Jay. Thanks for your exposé.
I always thought that I was a safety-guy, but you beat me with ease.
Still I have a question about your idea of getting back to shore alone.
I first have to say that Holland is a very crowded little country, so the infrastructure is very
fine-meshed
, also in the coastal area on the northsea.
For instance I live in a small village who has a fully manned rescueboat 24h on standby (and ofcourse I know all these guys personally). So that makes calling for help (everywhere cellphone coverage till 10 miles offshore) rather easy. Going 15 miles up north or south there is already the next village with his own rescueboat.
I suppose that this might be different in the States, or in your place. That should explain your safety-stratecy.
Moreover I have to admit that maybe twenty years ago I was able to swim to the shore alone (at least when it was insight), but nowadays that's an illusion for me.
Besides that, wearing a hudge lifejacket with collar makes swimming anyway impossible. I know that there are PFD's for swimming (for instance used in kayaking) but I was once knockedout unconsciousness in a breaking wave during windsurfing. Hence the giant lifejacket.
You bring up an interesting point concerning a
killing-switch
(emergency release) which can be operated in an overboard situation. I've puzzled about that also already a long time; combined with the idea of a tether-line to keep you anyhow near the cat.
Last year there was in the Europenian Yachting magazines a big discussion about this tether issue and going again onboard after being washed-off.
I'v tried several ideas on my cat, but I'm not yet out of it. Problem is with cat's that any extra line is also again a riskfactor with regard to winding up, catching behind something, etc.
ronald
With a self tacking jib, the boat just wants to turn down, easing the main just promotes that further. If you can sheet it hard dragging behind the boat it will want to round up, and/or hopefully go over. But, if it's windy, you still won't catch it unless it goes turtle, which is unlikely with no one on board.
I watched my FXone drift away on it's side in Florida a few years ago, fortunately it was at a regatta and a H16 team scooped me up and deposited me back with my boat. That was a shitty feeling.
If I were sailing alone, I'd probably not be sailing with the jib. this may solve the issue there.
I would also be pleasure sailing, not racing, so I could get by with a little extra equipment on board to keep me attached or in proximity of the boat.
I would figure a
kill-switch
system would do one or several of the following:
- stop the boat
- turn the boat upwind (stopping progress)
- flip the boat (stopping progress)
As for a tether, I think it might work well (as long as there is a way to detach from the tether if you're getting dragged to death). I figured if I were washed over with the mainsail cleated on a reach, it might take a long time for the boat to round up and stop. Releasing the main via the snap shackle on the block might help achieve that faster?
Perhaps in addition to this tether which pops the mainsheet, it would remain connected to the boat on one end and a sea-drogue at the other end? That way I could either remain attached to the tether (and therefore the boat) or deploy the drogue (or both) to attempt to slow the boat's progress and direction?
sounds good on paper...
would you really sail without a jib?
I would also be pleasure sailing, not racing, so I could get by with a little extra equipment on board to keep me attached or in proximity of the boat.
I would figure a
kill-switch
system would do one or several of the following:
- stop the boat
- turn the boat upwind (stopping progress)
- flip the boat (stopping progress)
As for a tether, I think it might work well (as long as there is a way to detach from the tether if you're getting dragged to death). I figured if I were washed over with the mainsail cleated on a reach, it might take a long time for the boat to round up and stop. Releasing the main via the snap shackle on the block might help achieve that faster?
Perhaps in addition to this tether which pops the mainsheet, it would remain connected to the boat on one end and a sea-drogue at the other end? That way I could either remain attached to the tether (and therefore the boat) or deploy the drogue (or both) to attempt to slow the boat's progress and direction?
The only times I've been separated from a boat (multi or mono) have been in regatta situations. It was therefore easy to signal someone for assistance.
ronald appears to be sailing in the North Atlantic either by himself or with limited numbers of other boats, where it might be less likely to gain assistance if something were to happen. In cases like these, you have to me more self-reliant.
My only
self-rescue
was in a different sport - scuba diving in the late 80's. My idiot friends (two boats) all took off and left two of us on a reef about 6 miles offshore. The
I thought they were with you...
excuse.
So, it was a relatively long day for us (eventually got picked up by a commercial dive boat about 2 miles west of us). And, being it was scuba diving, I had no self-rescue gear (gps, vhf, food, etc). What I continue to reflect on was the psychology of the event...
The first few minutes were the disbelief. No Boat? can't be. WTF?
That morphed into a mild panic-like state. Too many JAWS movies to be sure... I guess this could have evolved into full-blown hysteria if you let it...
Once it was determined that (1) those guys really were idiots, (2) yes, we're on our own out here and (3) it will be dark in about 5 hours, I just sort of changed into an acceptance of the situation and started a slow swim toward land with my dive partner.
Only shear panic situation was a commercial freighter that got awfully close and most likely never saw us. Thoughts of getting sucked in and chewed up in a giant propeller ran through my head. It was close enough that the vibration of the engines was pulsing through my chest. I'd say we probably passed within 100 feet or so of this giant cargo ship.
After that, it was just an afternoon swim/drift westward with the hope of eventually running into land. After about 2 hours we sighted a boat and waved our dive sausages until they saw us.
But my idiot friends did buy drinks that night so I guess it all worked out.