Home building a small cat

Alain:

There are usually some boat plan books on EBay. May want to look there.

Doug Snell
Hobie 71
www.tcdyc.com

Although it's quite a bit bigger you might gain some valuable info at http://www.rotkat.com/ .

Contact Phill Brander about plans for his new F-16 Blade design. I have had a chance to check them out and he offers an excellent plan package, very complete and detailed. If you are going to go to all the trouble of building your own boat, why not go for the latest and greatest? No sense building an older design that is already obsolete when a cutting edge design is available.

Regards,
Bob

Bob:

Want to see a kick butt new boat, I have some photos of the new MCM Formula 28 from the Britain Boat Show they sent to me. Send me a email link. dsnell4 at houston dot rr dot com.

Doug Snell
Hobie 17
www.tcdyc.com

I would forget about the Quattro, it's outdated and the plan set is not really great. There are some things in there you will be scratching your head about (at least I did) if you are on your first boat. Resale vale will be low compared to a Blade.
If I was to build today, even for family use, I would have done a Blade. Cost might be a little bit higher, but so will resale value. Have a look at http://www.bladecatamarans.com , and then get in touch with Phill Brander.

I dont know how good practice building a small plywood cat will be for a larger project. Unless you intend to do a plywood or strip planked project of course. If the design you think about is a composite project, you would be better off building some test panels to get used to the various building techniques and then following a well documented set of building instructions like Farriers.

http://www.cat-sail.co.il/modules.p... album=37&pid=1423&slideshow=5000

The pics are from Phill Brander
http://www.geocities.com/phillbrander/

Good luck

Alain,

I think Rolf gives best advice.

I understand that Phill Brander is also working on a 28 foot cruiser/racer design based on his early Blade catamaran designs. I personally expect this to be a tortured ply design as well (maybe with an external layer of glass). This might of be of interest to you later.

In this line of thinking building the smaller timber-epoxy Blade F16 may well be a good test case before starting on the timber epoxy 28 footer.

Otherwise, when looking for a simper project then ask Phill about the Blade 14 and see what he says.

Just an idea.

Wouter

Here's the Grandaddy of them all:

http://www.wharram.com/

A very good plan to consider; especially if you have no experience is:

http://www.wharram.com/ctrek_photos/hitia17.shtml

The Wharram designs will seem obsolete to most people, I happen to disagree.

You should be aware that I am in the process of buying a Phil Brander design, the Blade F16, and that I own a Wharram Tiki 21, which I bought.

Good luck and keep us informed. You will find a HUGE amount of knowledge and experience here.

Regardless of the plan you choose, this site shows the building process and includes a cost sheet, in Euros.

Sorry, it's in Italian.

http://www.macchinedagiardino.com/hitia/

Thank you all for that information.

The blade seems to be a really nice design and if, for a similar cost, I can build a hi-tech cat, sure I will do. That's exactly the kind of boat I was looking for my test. Many large Cats are also builds from striped plank or ply design, so it will be very good for me to see if I can manage a good result with a small one before starting a big one. Anyway the big one is for a live aboard project in about 10 years from here, so I have some time to play on the water before.

I have already checked the WHARRAM designs for the large cat, but the Hitia 17 is not what I’m looking for right now. But you’re right, they’re designs for large cat are very interesting.

Anyone haves an idea of the price range it can cost me to build a blade 16 using plywood? I don’t need all hi-tech parts as I don’t plan to race with it.

Thanks again to all of you. I really appreciate.

Alain

And also, how many hours are to be planned to finish the boat ?

Thanks
Alain

Queue Wouter! (he home-built a very similar boat - the Taipan 4.9)

Does Phil Brander sell his plans? Or provide more detailed decriptions on his builds? His web site has great pictures, but some commentary plus some plans and you'd have a great resource to building a nice boat.

Wouter, how did you do it?

Bill

Catsailor had a write up om the Blade build. You may want to ask Mary or Rick for a back issue.

Doug Snell

Not meaning to speak for Phill here, but yes, plans for plywood construction are available.

Alain, I think you will be surprised by the price when you add all fittings and rigging together. Marine equipment is very expensive (I personally feel that somebody are doing a x3 on their profits somewhere in the chain). Building the hulls are not to expensive, 4 sheets of 4mm quality marine-ply, some epoxy, cedar, glass and carbon. The real cost is in all fittings, blocks, sails, cleats, rigging, mast, lines, tiller etc. etc. Phill can probably give you some numbers in AUS$ if you contact him.

If you are on a tight budget (I guess you are, since you want to homebuild instead of buying?), my best advice to cut costs is to find a derelict beachcat locally which you can pick up for a song. Strip it for all fittings, blocks, rudders, pintles, rudderheads, rig, tiller, crossbeams etc. that you can use, and you have saved a lot of money. Do _NOT_ fix that old beachcat, just strip it and go ahead with your building, if building is what you want to do. Look around clubs and you will probably find something lying in the bushes.

I would seriously try to get a Superwing mast section for your Blade if you decide to build however. I think that makes a lot of the boats "feel".

Wharram says 250 hours to build Hitia 17, 400 hours to build Tiki 21. Those are quotes for people with "some" skill with tools.

Your guess is as good as mine as to building time for the Blade.

Incidentally, I had estimated $4,000 U.S. to build the Tiki. That's wooden mast, no sails, no trailer.

Yes HELLO, here I am !

But seriously, a quick run down of the points raised :

My Taipan F16 (same building method, just a different hull design), fully fitted (Pentex Main, Pentex jib, spinnaker, snuffer), some carbon goodies, race ready and competitive finally came out at about 12.000 Euro's.

However, just like Rolf wrote by far the biggest part of the costs are the fittings and custom things like competitive sails etc.

I think I payed about 3000 Euro's to have the hulls build, painted and beamed. The other part is all the rest, like carbon rudders etc. I bought as good as everything new

So indeed just buying an old second hand catamaran and stripping it for parts will go a very long way to cuts costs. I expect you could then have the boat sailing for 5000 to 6000 Euro's. Note that not all secondhand available designs will be suitable. Check with us before buying.

Yes, he has sold quite a few already actually. He charges 250 Aus$ for them = about 160 Euro's. I feel this is too inexpensive for the work he has done on the design and the building plans, but he wants it this way.

The plans he sells are detailed instructions on how to build you own hulls and boat. Nearly step by step instructions. So it is more then just plans (blue print). The instructions sold actually explain the building method and best practice approaches of how to do more detailed stuff. It is the most elaborate set of plans I ever seen. It contains explanatory pics of the various building stage. In addition he has a large collection of building pics of all his builds. He has a builders forum that you are invited to and where you can get help on details if so required. Phill gives active support while building and he is very accessible for any questions you may have. I think this to be lightyears ahead of other building plans including those for the Taipan F16 that I used. I think Phill should charge more for this level of support, but ...

Anyway; if support is a deciding factor then look no further.

I used the AHPC Taipan F16 plans (200 Euro;s I believe) and I received a huge amount of help from (again) Phill Brander. This was before Phill finished his Blade design; otherwise I would have chosen to do the Blade design. I got alot of help from various friends and such. What else can I say here ?

About the same time I imagine, but building the Blade will always be more complex then building a Wharram design; I'm sure of that. However the Blade hulls do look 10 times better as a result. I appreciate the wharram design but they always look rather crude to me.

Quite a lot. I think It took me another year to fully complete the boat but I didn;t spend to much time per week on it then. However the finishing up of the boat is a big portion added to the building time just the same.

I think in general one should expect to spend two years from scratch to fully completing the race ready boats that is fully fitted.

To these answers I would like to add that you don't need to make a FULLY fitted boat if you don't want to. If saving time and cost is important then just forget about the jib and spinnaker setups, this will save at least 2000 Euro's (maybe more) and a good amount of building time. You can skim on other parts as well. You can decide to build your own mainsail etc and that will save another 700 Euro's at least. And so on. But this things will take extra building time. It will be a trade-off.

It will never be really cheap. Quality stuff just costs and in such a corrosive and abusive environment like the sea you really do want to have quality stuff. However I don't really expect any more crude designs to be alot cheaper.

One of the biggest advantages of building the Blade F16 is that you have an active class to support you and keep you motivated. Probably this will also help resale value later on.

Personally I would take up Rolf on his advice and try getting a superwing mast for the boat. It is really halve the feel of the boat and mine was bought and shipped to Netherlands from Australia for 880 Euro's; I don't think that to be to expensive knowing what other dealors ask for their masts (2000 - 3000 Euro's)

If you really want to cut cost then Pieter Saarberg overhere (very close to me) still has a few older aluminium A-cat masts he wants to sell. These will not be really competitive in the A-cat class or F16 class but they will definately be good enough for recreational sailing. Here you see how important an active class around a design is. By using the network you can arrange for alot of stuff and support.

Good luck !

Wouter

Wharrams are a completely different concept than the Blade (or Taipan or similar). The lashings and other things Wharram use fits the concept/philosophy behind his boats very well.

One point about boatbuilding. The first boat is always slow to build, as you are learning how to use new tools, materials, techniques etc. The second project usually goes much faster, and the third a little bit faster than the second again. What kind of background and what kind of personality you have also influences building time. I think it was Ian Farrier who wrote that a cabinet maker would use horrendously long time on completing a boat, but it would be a floating cabinet (beautiful). A plumber on the other hand would build a structurally sound boat on half the time. Joinery under the floorpanels would not be as beautiful as the one from the cabinet makers tough.
Like I said earlier, if you want to learn how to use plywood and epoxy, building a Blade is a good project. If you fear that this project is too large/expensive, build a plywood kayak first instead so you can find out wether homebuilding is for you. http://www.clcboats.com/ sells comprehensive plan sets and their book "The New Kayak Shop" explains what you need to know about plywood stitch and glue construction.

A CLC kayack would be a great way to get your feet wet with the tools and building techniques. I live about 5 minutes from thier factory and have seen thier kits and manuals. I even plan on bulding one in the next few years. The idea is you can try out boat building for about $1000 US for a nice kayak (completed) and one winter of building. They also use the same wood, 4mm Okume.

I would not have bought a kit if the goal was to learn how to build boats. Reading plans, thinking a bit, and then being able to loft the parts you want is essential for when you are about to begin on a larger project without a pre-cut kit. If one wants to go via the kayak route, building after plans are a far better exercise.

You can buy just plans for most of the kayak models. As Rolf said doing everything from scratch will definitely let you know if you like boat building.

Wow... Lots of ideas and discussions around here. Really interesting…

Just a precision, my goal is to build a cat to have fun on the water and gain experience on boat building. For those reasons, I don’t want to spend 10 000 Euros on this boat. But to build a good hull, like the blade, and fit it with correct fittings, mast and all, but not racing quality seems to me a good idea. I understand that the resale value and performances will not be the same but that’s ok for me.

Just a few words on my background. I currently sail on a 35 feet cruising sailboat (on lake Champlain, NY) on witch I did a lot of upgrade. So working on a boat and installing new systems like autopilots, frig or working on diesel engine is not really a problem for me. But the kids grows older each years and it’s time for us to sell this boat. Two years ago, we had a cruise, my wife, our three daughters and me, from Canada to Bahamas for 9 month. Believe me, that’s the real life. So I look for ways to stiil have fun on the water and prepare our future project that is to have a cruising catamaran to cruise around the world (when the kids will be old enough, so I have some time).

Why not a kayak? Just because I love sailing. Also, I think the kids will love that too. It will be a good motivation to finish the boat. If I can achieve a nice result on a blade, I think I will go for a large one. Just for the pleasure to build it by myself.

Thanks again for all your comments and ideas.

Alain

While you're there, have a look at this! I actually own a set of these plans, thinking someday, maybe. . .?
http://www.clcboats.com/boats/pacificproa.php

Alain,

If a world cruising cat is your end desire, I would reconsider the building method. Farrier's F41 is not a wood boat, but a foam core boat. Farrier went this way because it saved so much time and weight over the wood designs he began with. If the Farrier boat is more of what you want, then consider a smaller foam core boat as a project, maybe the F22 trimaran. This is where I ended up when I was considering a cruising cat as a project when I retire. Just some food for thought.

You should also check out CLC's sailing rig for the Chesapeake series kayaks. I have sailed this and I was very impressed. It's no catamaran, but it is lots of fun.

Alain,

I have been working on a new design for a homebuild, the idea is for a very cheap catamaran, The hull material cost will be similar to a normal cat but it will be very quick to build, more like 40 hours, and it uses the same biplane windsurfing rig that we use on our four hulled boat. As most people have said it is the rig that is one of the most expensive components, but two windsurfing rigs are much cheaper, cheaper still if you get them 2nd hand on ebay. Biplane rigs perform really well. Also the design should scale up to a bigger boat if it proves succesful.

It won't be the same performance as a blade but will be better than a Wharram, more like a H16.

I am looking for a guinea pig for my new design as I am too busy with my four hulled boat and a childrens monohull to progress this idea this year. If you are interested I will supply free plans to your specification (length, width and payload) so long as you don't pass them on.

You can contact me via gareth at fourhulls.com

All the best

Gareth
www.fourhulls.com

Alain,

http://www.f-boat.com/index.html

This website for Farrier provides a wealth of information. I just revisited it an know remember all the good information of why vertical strip foam construction is recommended, even though wood constuction is still an option for these designs. Make sure read the sections on Construction and Catamarans. Whatever your choice, I wish you all the best in pursuit of your sailing vessels!

If you are building a small cat to improve your skills in order to build a bigger multihull for cruising afterwards, you should take a look at Ian Farrier's and Derek Kelsall's designs and construction methods. Vertical foam stripping and KSS seem to be the way to go.

Good luck.