Poll: Most performance from an "old" Formula 18

We just went through this decision process myself last year. Some might argue that the latest hull shapes have a lot to do with the speed potential of the Formula 18s, but I believe most of that potential comes from the mast and sails. From the original Nacra F18 and Hobie Tiger, we've seen a pretty dramatic change in the mast weight and profiles that were coupled with sail design. I think both of these boats would continue to be competitive if they had the newer mast and sail design...but I don't think the math will work out in your favor if you include all of that extra cost.

That said, two of the boats on your list have seen only relatively minor changes from the older version to now and I think are the best value. The older Nacra Infusion and the AHPC Capricorn. Both of these boats have the latest mast and sail configuration and would probably just need a sail update to be completely competitive again. The biggest difference in these boats is the SLDBs (stupidly long daggerboards) which, in my opinion, add only very slightly to the boat's performance.

Hi Jake,

thanks for the comments. I also subscribe to the thought that the rig (sail+masts and their config) is the critical point. Hence my weighting of the question <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Getting a new mast tube is not that expensive and I am a qualified tinkerer to my sailing partners dismay and relief.. New sails are a given anyway, but they might very well be homemade. (hush)

Considering that you have competed on the NACRA F18, it would be good to get your thoughts on the platforms specifics compared to the newest designs.

The infusion and the cap don't belong on the same list. Yea the cap was cutting edge at the time and is just like a new boat from the water up, but the hulls do not belong to the current generation of boats which started with the infusion. I also don't think you'd find many of the two at a similar price point.
Overall the infusion should be more competitive, however if you are not sailing in big conditions (waves and wind) very often the Cap is a great choice and can still be an absolute weapon especially in light to medium and flatter water.

The list was set up based on boats I could see on the internet within my budget. In that regard the Capricorn, Hawk, the NACRAs etc all have a place on the list <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
Point about the Cap taken!

You forgot to tell us at what weight you will be racing.
I like the Infusion but I think the Cap's build quality is better.
Dont think you can go wrong with either really, it depends which is in better state etc.
The Infusion is a bit easier to sail though, especially downwind.

Weight.. Obviously overweight.. Both my sailing partner and myself are big boys. As in big boys with scars in the face which you dont want to mess with <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

Funny that the Cap and Infusion get all the attention so far. What about the Tiger? And the Hawk was always mentioned favourably 5 years ago as the hidden gem?

Tough question, few straight answers. I think Jake summed it up best with his statements on the rig. Most Tiger's command more than they are really worth (at least asking price, $1 or $2K more often gets you into an early Infusion), and the Tiger rig and foil package is very dated at this point. Don't get me wrong, in the hands of a competitive sailor it will still put up a good showing but the boards are the lowest aspect ratio around and the mast is a teardrop section, not a wing mast. I may be wrong on some of these points, since there were several versions of the Tiger and some have been upgraded with more modern foils and sails.

In direct comparison between an original Nacra F18 and an original Capricorn, the Cap was faster uphill but suffered going downwind. I'm 100% confident the differences were sailor ability, rig tuning and sail choice. I would stay away from an original Nacra F18. The Infusion, as mentioned above, has a modern hull shape and should perform well. It also has amongst the most hull volume of the used boats on the market (more so than the Capricorn and better placement than the Tiger) so is a good choice for the heavier teams. I voted for the Infusion over the Cap primarily because you mentioned big boys. That vote stands if you race in heavier air conditions as well. Otherwise the Cap is a good second choice.

I have no comment about the Hawk as I've never seen nor raced one.

Rolf, you might be interested in this F18 that just came on the market:
http://watersport.marktplaats.nl/ca... er-snelle-f18-in-wedstrijd-conditie.html

Its a very unique cat that is still very competitive and comes packed with spares.

Thanks Tony,

we have heaps of time, not targeting to purchase before fall <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

And the link did not work, which is a good thing!

I've only ever heard people who never owned or raced a Capricorn recommend against one. I loved both of mine - great boat, and particularly great for the money.

You should take the conditions of your preferred sailing location into consideration. In your profile you are saying

NORWAY west coast

That's the coastline to the open ocean with a lot of rocks just below the waterline, right? The so called

updated

newer plattforms with flat bottom create a lot of lift and lay high on the water compared to the more rounded shape like Tiger and Hawk. So low aspect Daggers, rounded bottom etc. may show some advantage on these conditions. The Tiger is a very robust boat and still competitive in these conditions which are different from lake water racing which is mainly flat water. My crew and i are big boys too. we are aroung 100lbs overweighted compared to average F18 crew weight. This is far more impacting your performance than boat design. Just my 0.02
cheers from germany

Buy an older shape Nacra 20, the only boat that is value for money for the bigger guys.

Conditions vary wildly in this place, and any racing we do will have very variable conditions as well <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Wayne, the only action there is in this place is in the F18 class. The Tornado would be our clear choice if racing was not our motivation. The T was my first love with catamarans and it is a really nice experience to sail one. Marström tornados are sold for really good prices now!
We sail at 180kg, but that is just a fact and not a decision point when it comes to choosing a class. F18 is the only class with some action.

Only 29 participants in the poll??? Come on guys! <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

For big guys the Infusion is a good choice, loads of bouyancy.
Good idea to wait with purchasing till end of the year, that gives you plenty of time to lose 30 kilos! <img src="<>/laugh.gif" alt="laugh" title="laugh" height="15" width="15" />

Speaking of weight loss.. I am off to do a jog up the nearest hill. Seriously! See you after my heart attack <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jendemsfjellet

And this is where I live: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jendemsfjellet

And the nearest town with a sailing presence: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Molde

new C2

wasn't an option....

That belongs under

other

...

I'd say its still not an option as its outside of your stated budget.

My opinion is to go with either the Cap, or the infusion. Those are the two I'd be looking at if I were in the market for a used F18. I'm curious what peoples thoughts are with a lower volume boat with a big boy team. Time for another thread when not tapping **** out on my phone.....

At 370 combined I still like my Tiger but having sailed the other boats the newer designs tend to carry the weight better.
The biggest thing on the boat is the

Tiller Nut

and the

Sheet Monkey

no matter what the design.

Take all the boats in the list downwind in a force 5-6 and you will want the Infusion!

That is the type of feedback that makes decisions easier. Thanks.

I think as an all round boat in that price range the Infusion is a good option, certainly the capricorn is another good one to look at.

both boats have strong and weak points, It depends on the prevailing conditions where you sail.

Based on my last Tradewinds regatta sailing with Krantz on my V1 Infusion vs. the newer C2 (flat water, 15-18k breeze), the infusion seems to have slightly better speed upwind and the C2 slightly better speed downwind. I'm gauging this against my performance with Robbie Daniels and Tomko on their C2s. I could out pace Daniels to A-mark on the first leg but would lose more than I gained on the downwind...initially I learned a lot watching him pass me downhill and discovered some errors I was making with my mainsail trim but, once corrected, it still wasn't enough to keep him from gaining more downwind on me than I would gain on him upwind. When we got off the line well, though, Tomko would usually slightly beat us to A out of glorious tacking execution (sight to behold) but I had nothing on him downwind...of course, sail condition and technique play into everything and I'm no pro. With the exception of my raggedy jib, my other sails are new and I have no idea what condition the sails were in on Robbie's boat. Tomko's looked to be pretty spanking new.

With regards to the original Capricorn and the Infusion, I would say that the Infusion is slightly more resistant to putting a bow in downwind but I've only sailed the original Capricorn once (never on the C2). They're both perfectly fast enough that the skill on board will be 98% of the win factor.

That said, after having to do some major structural repairs caused by poor build quality on my 3 year old Infusion, sailing a couple of Capricorns, seeing the Capricorn go through an Alter Cup (as well as the sailing the AHPC Viper in one), I can say that the AHPC brand gets a big thumbs up from me in build and fitment quality.

I've owned Nacras since I started sailing but, if I was in the market again, I would need to go back through my photos of all the work I had to do to fix the poorly mounted daggerboard trunk in my Infusion before I decided what to buy again.

Neat pictures, Rolf. As my budget will likely never afford a trip to

yonder parts

, if you have a photo blog or something showing life, landscape, etc. in your area, be sure to post it...

Our biggest

mountain

in Florida is about 30 meters high (Bock tower?)

Sounds like you've been on the A-cat too long <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

So I guess a question I have would be; has there ever been talk about setting up “Old School Class” for F-18 racing.

From this discussion; it appears that with the advancement in design many of you feel that a Hobie Tiger, NACRA F-18, etc… are not competitive platforms against the newer generation boats, but are still great boats…

Seems this would be a great way to keep the casual racer involved with out the needed expense of having to have to keep up with the latest and greatest.

Thoughts?

No photoblogs that I am aware of, but here is one which gives a good representation of the coastal landscape. For the mountains I need to find someplace else. This place is a narrow slip of land to live on between steep mountains up to 1900meters and the ocean.

http://elisetheoline.blogspot.com/search/label/vakre%20Fr%C3%A6na (Do NOT fall in love with the girl, she is spoken for)

nice pictures.

I notice in some of the photos your apparel includes something I haven't seen in decades. I believe the English term is

Sweater

or possibly

Jacket

.

<img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />