This one is for the kids.

In this rendering you see the boat in the beginners configuration.
Here it has spade rudders & skegs. These allow the boat to be sailed in water the kids can
easily stand up in to help aid their confidence and keep them out of trouble.

With the skegs, rudders and mainsheet remaining on the boat all you need to do is slip
the mast into the sail pocket, stand the mast and then thread the boom through 4 webbing loops,
(Tack, front mainsheet block, rear mainsheet block and clew) and you are ready to go sailing.

As the youngster gain more confidence and is looking for more performance the skegs come
off and the deeper rudders go on.
From my past experience with this hull shape in the conditions most likely to be used it will
tack nearly as well as a mono and lose hardly any speed as it does.

When I build a prototype I will build it with removable skegs and test it thoroughly with
skegs and c/bs both with deep rudders. The purpose of this testing will be to quantify the
difference in performance and handling between the two. I will then decide if the difference
in performance is worth the additional cost of manufacturing hulls with centrecases and then
manufacturing centre boards. As the finished craft would be much cheaper with skegs.
There is little point in making this decisions without first getting the data to ensure it
is an informed one.

I am confident in every aspect of this design. The only area that will benefit from
testing apart from the skeg/cb issue is the most appropriate mast tubing selection.
There are several criteria that must be met in order for the mast to meet all the perceived
needs.
Finally I have to thank Florin for offerring to help turn my computer models into something more presentable.
He has done a brilliant job.

Enough talking, it's time to put down the keyboard and pick up some tools and make it happen.
I will start January 1 and post updates on my web site from time to time.

wow! great pics, as you say a thousand words

how would it compare to the old hobie 12 and current bravo in terms of performance?

Wow!! That's too good for kids. I want one. Ed

You can't be serious. <img src=

alt=

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Phil, that looks spectacular!

Beautiful boat, my 8 yo is learning the H14 right now, and races Opti green fleet, but he is a die hard cat fan(Im so proud!), maybe this type of craft(High performing easy to use boat)will be the ticket for all of our kids. Sully's Hobie 14

Oh my Phil,
This is absolutely FANTASTIC!! Honestly, I think if you can find a permanent builder for the boat, this class may take off. You should offer options as to home building or buying from a builder. Also, I know this may be a bit off topic, but I was looking through a Harken catalogue, and noticed they had a diagram of a beachcat that showed parts used. It was odd however that in this diagram, the cat's mainsheet system was behind the tiller crossbar. It appeared as though the tiller arms were longer, and the tiller crossbar simply was in front of the traveler tack with the tiller extension attached. This appears to be much more simpler rather than passing the tiller behind the mainsheet blocks every tack/jibe. Perhaps this could be a feature on the F12 due to its ease of use?

Well, anyways, I am very excited to see that you are going forward with this great idea and I can't wait to follow your progress. What is the website this will be posted on by the way?

That is a beautiful design.

If you really want to compete with Optis, think MUCH smaller mast and sail. You could offer options (like the Laser) that scale up as the sailor grows.

Mike

Vinny,
I don't know if you noticed but the tiller cross arm is in front of the mainsheet so the kids will not have to pass the tiller behind the mainsheet to tack.
The Blade 12 is a bit smaller in beam and sail area than what the F12 guys are doing. I wanted to be able to stack it under the Blade F16 on a trailer.

Regards,
Phill

Phill, that is really sweet and its parentage is unmistakable.

I guess one important question in terms of promoting junior sailing is how to view the relationship between the different designs currently being discussed. There appear to be some significant differences in philosophy and design parameters. My assumption is that the Blade is intended to be OD rather than part of a formula class and so would compete with the other proposals directly. Of course even in a formula class different designs compete with each other, but with the expectation that all can coexist quite peacefully.

One view is that different OD 12' classes initially coexist in the market with the likelihood that one will ultimately dominate. Another is that the different designs may represent slightly different box rule proposals, and that ultimately one rule will dominate and spawn additional designs. However I think it is generally believed that a OD may be more appropriate for this segment of the market.

Interested to know if you have any thoughts on this.

Mark.

Are you saying that that this much sail area isn't safe enough or that the boat will be so fast it will scare the kids away?

I would have thought that the point of a multihull is to go faster. It's true that a certain amount of speed may be intimidating to a youngster, even if it is quite safe, but of course you can fix that problem by just buying an Optimist. I'm not sure that making a multihull more like the Optimist is the right solution.

please make it strict one design, that seems to be the

Fad

that the monosluggers are wanting. No parent wants thier child beaten because of someone having a

better

boat.

Certainly agree, but with multiple designs around one thing is certain is that there will be winners and losers.

Mark,
From my perspective I'm finishing a project that I started 4 years ago. It was always intended to be an OD.

Regards,
Phill

yeah, I see a better OD market on this one. That's one cool looking little boat and although I keep coming back to the feature to go stay-less and wonder about that one, it sure would be quick to setup and reduce the chance for damaged rigging during transport.

By going OD it enables a manufacturer and designer more options to reduce cost - such as the stayless mast setup. This probably doesn't enhance the performance of the boat but probably provides some cost savings, setup time, and service liability...which is a good thing from all aspects of ownership. This boat is undoubtedly going to pack in a good deal of performance but to compete with an F12 would keep it from offering things that might be marketable to a particular audience (like the stay-less mast, skeg keels, etc.)

WOW Phill. Very very nice. Maybe this has been covered, and if so I apologies, I just can’t take my eyes of the pictures to read for very long. It would be very good to be able to stack these for limited storage reasons. Like a laser rack.

Todd, screw building me boy the opti, build this.

Correct, but that's why I said IF you want to compete with Optis. There has been a lot of discussion recently that we should have a soup-to-nuts training/development program for kids on cats. To do that, you can't scare away the six-year-olds (or more importantly, their parents).

There's nothing wrong with the design as proposed, so long as you're not trying to win over six-year-olds (and their parents' money and time). However, if we don't get them young, we may continue (forever) to lose them to the monoslug world.

Mike

While I am a big fan and proponent of developing a catamaran to catch the attention of kids sailing today and to create a class that they can race. The concept is daunting. Just looking at the boat drawn here, several concerns come to mind. How many impacts are these boats going to be able to take t-boning each other at full speed. Remember, it's kids sailing these boats, it's going to happen. Is the construction used going to be able to handle years of being carelessly dragged up and down beaches, and launch sites? Can a child right the boat unassisted? I spent this past weekend watching a large opti regatta, between the RWB fleets, and the green fleet, there were probably 100 opti's on the water. Some of these kids are good, real good, but are they ready for this boat? Most kids don't graduate from an opti, to a 420 or laser (4.7 or Radial for that matter), until they are 12 or so. The opti provides a safe, reliable introduction to sailing for kids under that age. Putting them on a cat with the performance potential of this boat is scary to say the least. Instead of trying to find a boat to compete with the opti, we need to find a boat to compete with the laser and 420. This may be it, but we are fooling ourselves if we think it's wise to have kids sail and race this boat instead of an opti. Just my 2 cents, flame away.

I've re-read Phill's original post and still see no reference to Opti's, only the Laser.

You're right, but opti's were mentioned in other posts and threads of this subject.

Beautiful boat Phil. Ksurfer2 I'm not too worried about speed and power as that just comes down to the size of sail you put on it to match the conditions to the kid. The pain is having multiple sails.
Lots of different design 12ft cats out there with piles of screaming young houligans on them yeah lets do it <img src=

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regards

You're right John, Optis aren't specifically mentioned, I may have read into this too much

very young kids.

A very young kid (to me) is a six-year-old. As mentioned by others here, Optis have all sorts of advantages that we need to overcome (they are slow, crash-resistant, and

self-righting

).

True, we don't HAVE to overcome this, or target six-year-olds. But, it would take a very blind person not to see that in most areas (and there are some good exceptions), the Optis feed directly into the next mono class, and not into cats.

That's why I think it's critical to have a cat that a six-year-old can sail, to bypass the Opti completely. It needs to be WAY slower than we would want to sail as adults, yet still be exciting enough to entice kids to sail.

Mike

We have 12 year old kids drive landyachts at 50mph speeds overhere. You'll be surprised how

brave

they are when they are allowed to start in easy winds and build themselves up to more challenging conditions.

Wouter

You should see some of the crazy stuff 10 year old kids can do on a motocross track.

Very cool looking boat. What does an opti cost? Price would be a factor as well if it were to be more than a home-built boat.

You guys are just SOOOOO not listening...

It really doesn't matter what a 10 or 12 year old is willing to do, it's arguably just too late by then.

Mike

Opti's are 2500-3500 US dollars, upgrade to the black spar package and its more. Lots of used boats(Opti's)and lots of fleets. Youre just not hoing to take away the market or the fleets with any cat...BUT...
You can capture the 10-12 year old market, the

graduating class

of Optis sailors, and thats where we should focus.
The Opti is THE boat to learn on, not a cat in any form. Let them get the basics, racing/starting down, then let them mature, then hand them the keys to a cat.
I have just started with my 8 yr old, and now Im getting my 5 yr old ready to sail an Opti next year. I plan on doing 10 or so regattas with my kids this coming year, mostly watching them, but maybe a H16 ride with the oldest kid in a race or 2. But in a few years, I want my sons sailing Phils 12 footer, and I promise not to let the bigotry of the monohull world influence them negatively : )

Brucat, on a light wind day maybe an 8 yr old can handle a cat(mine does quite well), but when it blows, they are not strong enough yet(IMHO) get them on YOUR boat when they are young, thats all they need to see, they will be hooked on the speed, I promise.

Depends on the kid. My 7 year old grand daughter went out with me on my Hobie 17 in 20 knots and LOVED it. We were like a ping pong ball in a washing machine with 3 foot chop on the bay. Downwind was a roller coaster ride and she was grinning from ear to ear. No two kids are alike, I think it is a GREAT design. Phil when you get a builder lined up let me know. Think you will have another hit like your F-16

Doug