Unwelcome.... re Waves

I confess I had hoped the show of good faith displayed by clubs like ABYC in inviting Hobie points events would be met with corresponding Hobie regattas that would invite other classes to their events. The San Diego Classic, for example, would be a fun event for the F18s to race. There aren't very many Hobie-only regattas in SoCal, but that is one I have heard is a good time.

At the same time, it would be folly to ignore the passionate feelings on this issue. The debate stressed our club (Fleet 35/The Key Team) to the breaking point. Similarly, I watched a Fleet 3 meeting disintegrate when x-class was mentioned as a possibility by someone typically viewed as one of the Hobie faithful. As a result, I generally clam up on the topic. If Pat can get away with the post above without getting his head taken off, though, I think the conversation might be at a point where it might advance rather than melt down.

[/tangential hijack]

Okey dokey, I postulate this to all of you:

If it were so very important to us all, a majority of us all, or even just the hardcore racers for that matter... that we onedesign race, then this debate wouldn't even be happening.

Why, you all should be asking, don't the dedicated racers all go out and buy the same damn boat?

N 42

Did she call me a hypocrite? I don't remember saying anything but 'I promote Hobie sailing'. Catamarans in general, or open class events or whatever else is going on everywhere else: I'll leave that up to someone else to promote. They got people to do that. The hypocritical thing (if you ask me) in my most humble opinion: is that there are people out there, that act as if they hate our organization, and continually throw up as many road blocks as humanly possible, make hurtful statements, make negative remarks ( and you know all the rest) and expect HCA to change to be the way they think we should be, THEN tell me that if we were to work to build our ranks in said areas of the country that WE would be having a negative impact on the sport. Hhmmmmm. I, as you can imagine, have gotten Private Emails about this thread from MANY differnt people from MANY different parts of the globe (yes, everyones sarcasm is read in differnt hemespheres) and its not very flattering for any of us to be doing this fire/volley crap back and forth. I shouldn't even say that, because I have YET to make or even see an 'anti-catamaran event' statement come out of me or any of the Hobie People that have been involved in this thread. I HAVE seen enough Anti Hobie **** to choke a donkey. Tami, please don't call me a hypocrite. I have not minced words and I am not trying to be part of some grand scheme to undermine the existing racing scene anywhere. I am just trying to establish a few Hobie events here and there so all us Hobie-people north of the Mason Dixon line have a nice place to come spend our vacation money.
Don't you live around Biloxi? We are hopefully bringing some people down there for a pretty sizeable event next spring. Does that mean nothing to you? I was co-host of the Area K qualifier a few years ago, had 30ish boats, so don't go telling anyone I am anti Open Class racing. I got my butt kicked by N-20s all day long at that event. My H20 was great up wind then bye bye.....
Next?

You guys are always welcome at our events, even if you have a Northern drawl. We'll even roll the carpet out to you for travelling so far. Are you saying that you'll only travel to race in a Hobie-only event?

Pat B wrote

Really!... these are the results you are proud of?

Madcatter 2006 vs Madcatter 2009
H16 60 boats down to 50 boats.
H17 9 boats down to 0 boats.
TheMightyHobie18 2 boats down to 0 boats
Tiger 20 boats down to 7 boats.

You are right... I can't argue that you are not getting what you wanted...

What happened to the other sailors?

Mike wrote

Most people would call a regatta that has three classes (H16, 17 and 18) a mixed bag!

Why do you forget that its an ASSOCIATION OF SEVERAL CLASSES (real classes like Hobie 18's or just on paper class like Hobie Waves) The conflict of interest is enormous!

Right!... now you send poor Wessels out there to put humpty dumpty back together again ....But... Humpty Dumpty looks like a Hobie Only event which failed in the first place!

If it actually happened it would pull boats away from another regatta trying to break even and attract boats and it will certainly piss of the volunteers working at running events already.

Note added. re Pat's last post.
Consider what the world would look like if the Class association represented ONE CLASS of boats and just supported one design racing of 5 or more of those single class legal boats in any event in the country.

The yacht clubs aka hobie fleets would then be free to support all their local sailors and make money running races for classes that agree to come. BEFORE the Hobie EDICT... Hobie Fleet 54 ran races for the International Canoes at Gunpowder. (basically a half catamaran) They have also run races for International 14's. Mystere 6.0's, A class and god forbid... Open class

IMO... separate supporting the OD class business from the individuals who form a club and host a regatta.

Wessels, your words:

Yes, we'll race, but it is all about the party, and hangin' out with the whole catamaran community.

(italics mine)

I'm pretty damned sure that the WHOLE catamaran community includes boats which are NOT Hobie. So yes, you did say something other than 'i promote hobie sailing.'

I am just trying to establish a few Hobie events here and there so all us Hobie-people north of the Mason Dixon line have a nice place to come spend our vacation money.

You

hobie-people

(your words, is that like 'white people?') already have very good events down here which are established for many MANY years to come vacation to. You can support those, THEY ARE ESTABLISHED. Do you not understand? PRECEDENT. PREVIOUSLY ESTABLISHED. GETTING ALONG. UNIFIED. JUST FINE. WELCOME TO ALL AND SUNDRY, INCLUDING HOBIES. SO BRING YOUR butt ON DOWN AND DON'T FUK WITH US.

Here. Let me explain. It would be one thing if a: there were no previously established groups at all; or b: there were established SMOD groups which you would be building on. But the game is very much changed when you and your ilk seek to barge in to a situation well established and smoothly running and impress exclusivity and divisiveness upon it. Therein lies the anger, and apparently it's not unique to my area.

Hobie let Pandora open the box, and now with the edict seeks to close it. Live with the consequences.

Where is Sylvester McMonkey McBean when you need him?

This has really turned into the

Sneetches on the Beaches

!

Fleets are dying left and right from all classes and categories of boats. It's not Hobie's fault there are 20 abandoned H16's at my club, anymore than it's their fault there are 20 abandoned Highlanders, or 12 abandoned Interlakes. But if Hobie wants to promote a Hobie regatta, why is that any different than Customflex promoting an Interlake regatta?

I'm out of popcorn, and just lost my appetite...

Here. Let me explain. It would be one thing if a: there were no previously established groups at all; or b: there were established SMOD groups which you would be building on. But the game is very much changed when you and your ilk seek to barge in to a situation well established and smoothly running and impress exclusivity and divisiveness upon it. Therein lies the anger, and apparently it's not unique to my area.

Hobie let Pandora open the box, and now with the edict seeks to close it. Live with the consequences.

I said that? I don't remember. I am pretty sure, hanging out with a few of you would entail me sitting there trying to suck down a Heineken and being yelled at because you're pissed about something I have no control over.
Tell you what: I can call the guys at Ocean Spring Yacht Club and tell them Tami said we shouldnt have an event there because we're bringing our exclusivity and FUKing with all of you. 'Hobie-People'/'White people" are you ****ing kidding me? Digging pretty deep now.
Look, if my Board of Directors (Div chairs/womens rep) tell me that we're going to do open regattas, then fine. But until then, we're gonna go the way we're going. You seem to hate, because we're not doing things the way you want us to. What the hell is all that about? You don't do things the way I want, but I don't throw sh#t at you. And just because we have a full sailing schedule of Hobie Events that the bulk of the 'hobiepeople' like to go to, why are you getting bent at the fact they don't drive 600 miles to go to a multihull regatta somewhere in the south? Is that their fault for not wanting to go or yours, for not making is more attractive to them? You can toss your negativity around all you want. I am charged with maintaining and trying to build my group. That's what I am doing and if you don't like it, I don't know what to tell you. According to Trey, I WILL fail.

Really!... these are the results you are proud of?

Madcatter 2006 vs Madcatter 2009
H16 60 boats down to 50 boats.
H17 9 boats down to 0 boats.
TheMightyHobie18 2 boats down to 0 boats
Tiger 20 boats down to 7 boats.

Almost successful Mark
Rest assured, measures are being taken to eliminate those last 7 boats.
Thanks for the input.

Good one pat!

G.Zeus, man, YOU used the term 'hobie people,' how nice is that? Do you think those sort of expressions make X-brand boat owners feel like joining your cause? It smacks of snobbery, but hey, I'm sure that's good for the sport... and you wonder why the bitterness.

Why is it so difficult to understand that the situation is dire enough that telling ANYONE they can't come play in the sandbox is a bad idea, ESPECIALLY when the sandbox has been previously accessible to all?

Allow me to tell you a story:
Years ago, the only game in town was Hobie catamarans. There were lots of fleets and an established points system. And then, for whatever reason, people within these fleets began to leave, either to other types of boats or to leave altogether. Which was ok, 'cause the Brand X guys had their own stuff going on, and so did the Hobie guys.

And then, one day, the Hobie fleets, for whatever reason, didn't have enough numbers to fill out their regattas, so they opened up their regattas to all and sundry. The Brand X guys even stepped up and ran the races and they were certainly there to keep things going, I think the term 'delayed' was used, but it kept these groups from dying out immediately altogether. I know, I was one of those people keeping it going.

Now, the HCA has decided, not in the interest of beachcat sailing in and of itself, but for brand promotion and market share, that they will bar those who KEPT THE FLEETS ALIVE for all those years from participating.

Call that negativity all you like, but it's just plain obvious that I'm just voicing the cries of my sport when I say to you that EXCLUSIVITY WILL KILL THE SPORT. I've been watching it die, which process was accelerated by the Edict, and I'm damned if I'll let it go quietly. If the Edict had worked, Wessels, you wouldn't have to be out there beating the bushes.

You answer me one question, which I asked earlier, and you'll likely solve the problem:
If it were so very important to us all, a majority of us all, or even just the hardcore racers for that matter... that we onedesign race, then this debate wouldn't even be happening. Why, you ALL should be asking, don't the dedicated racers all go out and buy the same damn boat?

I would suggest to you that just about without exception we ALL, even those who are 'negative,' used to sail Hobie. WHY DID WE LEAVE? Maybe you ought to solve THAT problem and not go cutting folks out of the sandbox.

I guess that sums up the mentality of the mythical

Way of life

BS. That remark and the following cheer is attitude loud and clear, you just don't get it.

Have A Hobie Day!

I'll get to work on it right now.
I am heading to a regatta up on the Mississippi River at Lake City Minnesota, so I won't have computer access and will miss the next 33 pages of this thread. Please feel free to text me paragraph after paragraph on WHY the HCA has ruined the world and why I should go against everyone in my groups wishes so that you will finally be happy. Oh yea, Lee? He was joking. So was I. Sarcasm only goes from Open class TO Hobie I guess. Hobie to anyone else doesn't work I see.

Before you go... could you find the results of the vote of the rank and file Hobie sailors approving/disproving the hobie edict and publish them here?

Someone doesn't get it.

Well Pat,

you make an interesting point here. That is, I've often found it analogous between the Harley and the Hobie mentality. I'm just not sure that the marketing strategy which works for Harley riders will work for multihull sailors.

Phew, OK Tami, I'm just glad your not yelling at me <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Bisesi, you voiced exactly what I had in mind. Invite everyone to the party and then you can sell 'em on the goods. What is so complicated about that?

Word.

I thought that was serious since Hobie Tigers aren't made by Hobie US. Seemed to fit after what Hobie US did about stopping the Hobie Wildcat from being raced in the Tybee, then sold as a USED boat.

Have a nice regatta ... and abuse Karl ... just alittle please

I'll take my

Hot Chocolate w/ a splash of

Irish Cream

Please ....

Harry
TheMightyHobie18(mag)/ Fleet54, Div11
P19MX/ CRAC,

Open" Class

See! Tami does get it.

I have stayed out of this one, cause I have some different and strong opinions on some of theses things. But I would like to hold out that one one the biggest reasons for the lack of growth is the

Dude

boats. You know what I mean, the boat that is mostly sailed 2 Dudes.

What our success is based upon is a boat that can be raced ,sailed and rigged (trailered, etc) by couples or teens or 2 chicks....you get what I mean) I have owned and raced Dude boats (I20 & F18's) and they were fun, once they are on the water. But I am mostly an amateur racer, and even tho it may not be the slickest sailing boat, there is no better bang for the buck than the Venerable 16. Most places you can run into good size fleets with a great cross section of folks.

Until we get to a critical mass with F18 in this country we will not see any fleets with the size and the depth the 16 provides. A Cat is approaching the size, The depth is crazy, but the boat is a techie & a VERY expensive rig to run. you can get 2 NEW H16;s maybe more for what a new Acat costs) I have race other cat class Nationals, and frankly while there are great sailors there, a 15-20 boat NA's is no big thrill. (maybe Im spoiled)

I sail in the Southeast quite a bit and see very little in the way of youth promotion. Virtually no female skippers. All dude boats.

End of that rant.

OK, how bout monohull type view. Someone said why don;t the hardcore racers buy the same boat. Well, the mono peeps DO!@!! They search out the tough classes and whether or not it is the sexiest boat, they buy, learn and race it. The deffinition of the hardcore racer.

Racing is not who has the fastest boat, its who makes their boat go the fastest.

Gimme a NacrcornprindleAQUACATwaveBLADEtornado at a decent price point , with a good RC and a place to race and I'm IN.

Flame suit on.

Your milage may vary

Take someone new sailing!!!

Point High and Foot Fast!!!

Yep Tami, Why would a dedicated racer run away from a good class cuz da boat ain't sexy <img src="<>/crazy.gif" alt="crazy" title="crazy" height="15" width="15" />

The 'dude boat' killed the Hobie fleets?

Did the H16 cease production? Did it become only regionally available? Have we all not heard of the H16? Did it get more expensive?

come on now, people freely CHOSE another boat, when the H16 was there for the choosing. As promoters, you should find out WHY. Don't force your agenda, this is causing resentment.

Ask the right questions, offer better alternatives. Better alternative offerings are working well for Hobie in Europe... Hell even Volkswagen will tell you, 'give the people vhat they vant.'

Oh... and something else... from Brownsville to Key West, I'm pretty damn sure that there isn't a

good sized

fleet, and on the Louisiana coast, there isn't a fleet AT ALL. Really. I promise. I'm here. I'm da Mama, I know everyone. I'm not repeating someone else's marketing spiel.

Not any 16 class racing going on here. I only see a sprinkling of em around.

Tami,

I think you missed the Whole gist of my post. The dude boat didn't kill Hobie fleets, they just kill their own fleets. A great class just keeps going. i.e LAser, Lightning..H16...) There is always a bigger faster Dude boat (boy, it really reminds me of the Offshore powerboat guys)

I am just trying to give my own experiences, which are positive. No agenda, just having fun sailing with my kid and wanting to increase participation.

I'm just coming from a place that is growing and want to share what has worked for us.

Anyone can pick what boat they want to sail (I like my H16 & F/c31 wink)

No angst here, just alot of great racing and sailing.

Just remember It's just my choice, I can handle the repercussions.