US Olympic Pathway Solns.... thoughts?

Have the yacht club build a rack system in their boatyard. While not mast-up storage, you could pretty much leave the boat ready to step the mast (shrouds on, etc)

Then you could go three high, which is more boats/sf than dingys

That's actually how the Royal Varuna Yacht Club in Thailand stored many of their boats, it was a great system.

Originally Posted by John Williams

HORY COW, HERP US, GODZIRRA!

Jeff,

You make a lot of valid points, but implementing them may be tough. As is often the case everyone gets hung up on specific classes and boats, rather than looking at the culture surrounding sailing in the U.S. I am fortunate to live in a hotbed of sailing (Annapolis area), am sitting 20 minutes away from one of the premier Olympic sailing training sites in the country (St. Marys College), and can still count the number of high performance boats in the area without a calculator (surprising since I'm not that great at math). Besides Mark's count of 6 i420's at AYC that I have yet to see (CBYRA still uses C420's during the summer regatta circuit), and the club A-Cat at West River, no yacht club owns what I would consider a moderate performance boat. Both West River and SSA are great supporters of existing fleets (SSA has a bunch of 505's, West River has ~ the largest F16 fleet in the country and one of the few N20 fleets left), but how do you transition that to Olympic results? All the clubs mentioned above support the Opti->Club 420->College program, with no pathway to high performance sailing (some summer with a trap wire and spinnaker in a C420 counts a little). AFAIK, only 1 yacht club in the country introduces ANY high performance sailing at the high school level, and we've seen the results of that program with a top 15 finish at F18 worlds.

How do we break the current cycle? Exposing more kids to fast boats at a young age is a great start, but exposing the parents is also critical. The reality is few have the means to own a quick boat and few still can make it work on the regional regatta circuit. Youth will need help period. Looking at my travel budget+insurance+running costs for next year is making me cringe, I guarantee it is north of 75% of the price of the boat. How do you sustain this at the Olympic level?? Training 3+ days a week, paying for private coaching on weekends and traveling thousands of miles to regattas makes this unsustainable for all but the 1%, or those like JC that beg, borrow and steal to make it happen (aka a lifestyle choice).

The unfortunate reality is the high performance multihull talent pool in my backyard is bigger than most yet still slim enough that traveling is a necessity of getting better. Bringing in a regional coach would be great but how do you pay for it? How do you convince the typical yacht club member to fork over a few bucks for a coach instead of drinking beer one night? This goes for any boat or Olympic campaign. We need grassroots answers to a problem created by the 1%, and unfortunately it may be too late for the 2016 Olympic cycle.

Yep, implementing them is definitely tough. What we need is a cultural shift, and that doesn't happen overnight. Where I grew up on Lake Erie, the cool Jr. boat is the Thistle... a boat designed in 1945. One of the reasons the boat is popular is the strong open regatta circuit for the boat, and all the additional social aspects of adult regattas that are not available at jr. events. I know I'm working to get more older sailors to switch to HP boats, but I think it is a much harder sell than to young sailors. Unfortunately, there is a whole lot of inertia in the sailing world, and changing the course away from flying sidewalks is hard!

The price of a performance boat is high, but when you start looking at Olympic pathways, the cost of the boat becomes less significant when compared to campaign costs. That is why I really think we need to develop strong regional training teams. If we can keep travel to within a few hours most weekends, the pool of sailors willing to commit to that path increases.

How do you implement regional teams? You leverage some of the awesome programs and facilities already available, and I think US Sailing should fund regional high performance coaches. I think that would be something that could really make a difference to our sailing culture, and I would be happy to see some of my dues money go towards that. If not US Sailing funding, then maybe we need to work with regional yachting associations. For sure hiring a respected HP coach could be tough for an individual club or family, but if a group of clubs commits to hiring a coach for their combined top talent, it becomes more possible. It is a cultural shift, but possible.

Possible training centers:
New England: Sail Newport
South East: USSC Miami
South West: USSC Long Beach
North West: Sail Sand Point
Midwest: USSC Sheboygan, or maybe Chicago (or my hometown Cleveland!)
Gulf Coast: Somewhere in Texas maybe?

The infrastructure exists... now we need motivated and skilled HP coaches!

Jeff,

I know I am much more inclined to travel under 4 hours each way on a weekend, mostly from a time standpoint but fuel costs aren't getting cheaper.

The other unfortunate reality is the existing USSC infrastructure that you listed excludes large swaths of the country. It is 1,000 miles to Miami from Annapolis and 400 miles to Newport (the later close to frozen now). There are sizable active fleets of HP boats in Georgia, SC, NC, MD and NJ that would have a tough time making it to regional coaching on a given weekend. Yes the top talent will find a way to make the drive but the U.S Sailing/yacht club members that are paying for the regional coaches might have a tough time justifying the expense if they too can't reap the benefit. I'm sure a similar thing can be said for other areas of the country. A related solution is to build community sailing centers that can operate outside the yacht club infrastructure and basically exist solely to support coaching sailors from never been on a boat to Olympic level (the later bringing USSC status and associated funding). These may be off the beaten path a little bit but bring new sailing venues and much lower membership fees than a typical yacht club infrastructure.

Another minor concern is the availability of high performance coaches, at least in the Florida area 3 out of 4 that I am aware of live on the Gulf Coast, quite a drive from Miami. I'm not sure other areas of the country even have 1 performance coach.

-Sam

Sam,

I accidentally omitted a mid-atlantic venue- my apologies. I would love more community sailing centers around the country! In Boston, we are fortunate enough to have several... unfortunately the

high performance

boat at these centers are lasers and 420s (plus windsurfers at Community Boating Boston). For a community sailing center, a premium has to be put on boats that can sustain constant use (abuse) for an entire summer with minimal maintenance. If you have ever watched the MIT rec sailors and community boating sailors run boats into the esplanade, into the bridges, into each other... you'll know what I mean!

Unfortunately, for high performance boats, private ownership seems much more likely. The Canadian 49er class started a boat grant this year which is great- I have tried to figure out a way to do that for the F18s with little success. My hope is that if you make coaching and training more accessible and reduce the campaign burden, maybe more people would be willing to investment slightly more in the equipment up front.

As far as coach availability, if you create actual paid positions, I think you would see people move to those areas- it already happens for collegiate coaching positions. I am confident we have an adequate number of individuals who could coach performance boats in the US, but if not, I am not against hiring foreign coaches... it works for nations like Singapore!

You guys have done a good job of describing the hurdles.

I think you have to break things down to two divisions.

Olympic Pathway are the 5 to 6 mixed teams actively out raising money for their own campaigns, training with the team multi coach and making the ISAF grade I events as needed. They will need their home Yacht clubs to host Olympic training camps and a handful of international regattas. These guys will take care of themselves.

The real issue is how to get talent into the development team on mixed multihull. Growing your own.... ie coaching up your kids won't work... We need a program that
1) attracts the attention of the top junior racers 15 to 21.
2) provides an opportunity to compete for and participate in at least 2 regional training camps against the top regional racers in open multi... with a huge effort to recruit woman.
4) a mechanism to be invited to an elite training camp with members of the olympic team who are also training.
5) a clear domestic competition pathway to the ISAF youth champs and the later on... the Olympic team and Olympic ISAF events.

Leadership for the youth develpment MUST come from the top.... BUT the job is to get key regional clubs to support the Olympic development effort.. Figure out what resources are needed and then raise the money to make it happen.

This program sits on top of any yacht club programs that are using mulit's (eg Sarostoa YC or Hobie Div 11 and the JO's)

Individual parents will also be supporting their sailor with coaching and boats and they would be taking advantage of this kind of program as well.

Once this is in place... the racing multihull clubs can then piece in events locally that give these junior sailors more opportunity to race. Move boats, etc etc. If we can get these racers three experiences on a racing cat... they will be hooked.

My proposal is for a two boat trailers with F16's for charter that move from one regional high performance training camp to the next. Add two teams with their own boats and two teams trying it out from the local Yacht clubs and a olympic branded coach and you might get some good results. repeat this model a few times around the country and you might get something going.

Whoa... That could be interesting. Two trailers of (presumably sponsored) boats... I hear Alter Cup solution as a bonus!!! <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Lots of good ideas here, keep them coming.

BTW, there are far more good girl sailors than you are giving credit here. It shouldn't be too hard to find them.

I would argue that we need to focus on transitioning college sailors. Going after the youth probably won't work, as they are all focused on getting to college, where monohulls rule the water (if they have time to sail at all). Full-time Olympic paths really start after college anyway.

Mike

Guys,

All these ideas are great! But, WHO is going to pay for it?

My proposal is for a two boat trailers with F16's for charter that move from one regional high performance training camp to the next. Add two teams with their own boats and two teams trying it out from the local Yacht clubs and a olympic branded coach and you might get some good results. repeat this model a few times around the country and you might get something going.

This takes a LOT of MONEY and a lot of volunteer effort(money costs again!). This is the biggest hurdle and only the 1% have it. It helps to be a professional sailor too!

You are asking these kids to sacrifice their educations for what, a piece of metal that doesn't buy them groceries at the end of the day?! The days of glory are long gone.

I think someone else said it but 2016 is already past you. This is the reality whether you like it or not. I wish the current teams good luck!

BC

I agree that full time Olympic paths often start after college, but if the US is going to be competitive internationally, the Olympic path must start younger.... it definitely does elsewhere in the world! To accomplish this, the strength of our domestic program must get better. It is unrealistic to think that a high school or early college sailor can commit to a summer racing in Europe... even if they have extraordinary drive and commitment. Unfortunately, that is where the competition is, and our European counterparts benefit greatly from the harsh realities of geography.

So what can we do? Well in Europe they have the EUROSAF sailing cup, we need to work with Canada, Mexico, and the Islands to create a similar circuit. The regattas already exist- CORK, ABYC OCR, Miami OCR, etc., but quality and participation is lower than in Europe. Maybe we need to start incentivizing these events. Make competition in your regional OCR a mandatory requirement to qualifying for a regional development team. Having national ranking points that count towards funding tiers from US Sailing. Have quality clinics included as part of the events. We don't need huge fleets, but we need close the gap between youth sailing and college sailing, and a full time, euro-centric Olympic campaign.

As far as college sailing, I love the game- it is perhaps the simplest, most fun sailing you can possibly have. The important thing to remember, however, is that college sailing is just a very, very small part of the overall sailing world. It is really good at teaching some skills, but the realities of the venues and format mean some skills are neglected- and that is ok! I don't think an Olympic campaign and college sailing are mutually exclusive, but success in both requires clear communication of goals between coach and sailor, and flexibility from both sides.

Fran (MIT Sailing Master) is all for running a college event in multihulls, but the same question arises... where do you get the boats?

These issues are fresh in my mind currently... lots of discussion of my brother-in-law's campaign during Thanksgiving!

I don't think anyone is asking a kid to give up an education- in fact I think that would be the last thing anyone would say.

I'm not going to apologize for still believing in the awesome honor that sailing in the Olympics represents. Sure you can say an Olympic medal is a

piece of metal,

but you can say that about anything in life! If you take that attitude, why bother to even sail at all, let alone race?

For me, I'm going to keep going to the gym, working on my boat, and supporting, those who dream of Olympic glory.

IIRC, don't other nations sponsor their Olympic teams, reducing the need for the competitors to seek private support? Seems our Olympic hopefuls spend more time soliciting than they do practicing/competing.

Why not partner with the Collegiate Sailing system for Olympic development?

And explain again why my USS membership wouldn't support Olympic sailing program or team costs?

Jay, US Sailing dues are not used for Olympics, but they do run completely separate fundraising for Olympics. I can't recall the specific reason, it's probably buried on the website somewhere. You can always write a check and send in a donation.

I agree, and didn’t like what I was typing as it came out. The roots need to start earlier, but this will be a huge hurdle to set up in the short term. A long-term plan needs to be devised and implemented ASAP so we aren’t having this same discussion again down the road. There is lots of interest and potential right now at US Sailing, this is our chance to make a big impact.

I agree with a lot of this as well, but there are real travel costs here with those locations being so spread out. We need a plan to address that.

This may be the most encouraging thing I have ever seen on this site! Let’s figure out how to solve the boat problem.
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I do know that there is some interest at NYYC and St. Francis in multihulls, and it’s not all due to the America’s Cup. Sail Newport has been a long-time supporter (Hobie 14 frostbiting, F18s, etc.), and has outstanding fundraising capabilities for projects that they buy into. NYYC and SN have established ties to Olympic sailing. I think we can leverage these (and other) avenues for everyone’s benefit.

Mike

Jay,

I think the level of support is country dependent. Some countries are putting tons of money into their national sailing programs- Singapore is a great example. Team GBR relies on national lottery funding to help support its sailors.

I think the US got caught behind the curve when it came to national team funding and a very professionalized program. For a long time we dominated Olympic sailing using a very individualistic model... so we didn't change that model until all of a sudden we were playing catch up (at least IMHO). The good news is the US Sailing Team funding to athletes is increasing, hopefully reducing the individual burden slightly.

The simplest answer to the collegiate question is that the current college system works really well by some measures, and is difficult to change.

Not sure why USS membership doesn't go towards Olympic sailing, although I know many wouldn't support it.

Well, we are a

what's in it for me

society now, aren't we? I guess perhaps the only reason I feel somewhat benevolent now is I actually know the Olympic hopefuls...?

Hey, can we continue to bring international level events here to the US? Would that help bring the teams up to Olympic caliber faster?

I'm torn. I personally have no interest in Olympic sailing but having the team supported by USS dues is appealing to me. I know, a little contradictory...

I guess I feel that private efforts are doomed to fail for lack of funding. A true National team with appropriate funding levels is a whole different matter.

Bringing international events to the US is great, but hard to sustain in my opinion. The only annual international Olympic class event in the US is the Miami OCR, and I think it will be a struggle just to make sure we keep that one. Raising the profile of existing events like CORK would be very beneficial (and sailing there is awesome!).

As far as individual class events, you are restricted by class politics. For the F18s, getting a Worlds outside Europe is VERY hard. The current tentative plan is:
2013: Grosseto, Italy (confirmed)
2014: Ireland or Argentina (bids)
2015: Argentina or Oman (bids)

I believe there is another European bid in there as well, but I forget where. Argentina has a chance because it is Souther Hemisphere and the Europeans wouldn't lose part of their season to ship boats.

The A-Cats will likely be back, but it could be a few years. The 2013 F16 Worlds is Germany, maybe a US venue can put together a bid for F16s in the coming years.

The Nacra 17s will also have a worlds, but that will be subject to the ISAF Combined Worlds planning, so hard to say!

College Sailing is NOT a stepping stone to the Olympics...We have conclusively demonstrated this at Weymouth.... College Sailing is great for what it is... and we should leave it alone... no reason to put boards, cats and skiffs into the college game..
The proper model is basketball. Elite players go to Kentucky for a year and then to the NBA...School and sailing are seperate activities.

Why should US Sailing not directly fund Olympic Sailing... because Olympic Sailing gets the bulk of it's money from the USOC by way of the IOC.... by way of NBC TV by way of advertising. It would be greedy of them to take from the rest of the sport admin.

Money... Yes.. it would be expensive.... that is why we need a partnership... of several partners... US Olympic, Key Yacht Clubs who want to host Olympic Camps for their top sailors, Multihull clubs and classes, and parents and Junior sailors and some funding partners who brand the program and boats. These camps are not going to be free.... the goal is to cross train top regional sailors and plan to grow their performance in what ever boat they race or pathway they take. You hope to find a Smyth or Lovell as well as crews.

We need a vision for all of the partners and leadership from US Olympic and full support from the partners and multihull sailors.

I haven’t read any of the posts in this thread but a quick scan shows that it’s just like any other thread on the topic. Everyone is mapping out their own particular if-I-ruled-the-world scenario. Unfortunately it’s all just talk and just about no one is going to actually do anything. Here’s something you can do, give some money to your favorite aspiring Olympians, that’s what keeps real Olympic programs going.

+1

I agree but I think a few good ideas have come out of this thread that are actually implementable:

1) Hiring regional coaches-certainly doable if groups of F16/F18 sailors get together and make it happen. These coaches may be Olympic hopefuls and you're helping fund their campaign.

2) Getting a double stack F16 setup available for use. Its viable if there is manufacturer support behind the effort

3) Showing up at high school/college regattas and practices with your F16/F18/N20 and taking the kids for a spin after racing or the parents during the day. More exposure to high performance sailing=more interest in the classes=a few more Olympic hopefuls.

All of this takes at the minimum time, and in reality money by the class organizations to make it happen. Perhaps it would be better to spend this money directly on individual campaigns but some change needs to happen for 2020 before the U.S stops supporting sailing at the Olympics all together after another 0 medal count event.

More to the point...
Target is the 15 to 21 year old junior RACER... Not learn to sail... not recreational sail.. NOT OLD FARTS like us...
(now a partner program of coaching for the weekend warior set adds a huge amount of financial power and velocity to a program )

Credentials and authority matter...(as much as cat sailors reject authority)... FACT OF LIFE... no parent will spend the coin unless the program is real and supported by US Sailing AND your local establishment Yacht Club and it leads to International Championships.

Big time Yacht clubs already hire full time coaches/program directors (AYC just hired a recent ex Olympic coach) ... for their core group of sailors... We need to augment this expertise with a regional coach that comes in to support the high performance boats (skiffs and cats).

We need to change the attitude of college coaches... When THEY assert that juniors who cross train in high performance boat classes are the prize recruits and College admissions accomodates this change... Parents will be insisting that their kids have cross training opportunities.

This is a partnership between US Sailing (program) and your regional YRA, and the sponsors (boat builder and benefactors). A couple of YRA's could get together and buy into the package of training opportunities. The leadership starts at the top... but the people who make this run are at the YRA level (working with the key Yacht Clubs)

No... NO ... NO... Taking the kids for a spin is a proven waste of time...

Sailing is sailing.. racers decide on what class is more fun and meets their goals (regional champs, NA's, ISAF qualifier, College Admission, Olympics) ... it's not a novel new experience... So... they want to see the opportunities available and how doable is the class.

Ultimately... a kid needs to buy a boat... so parents are going to want to see a real commitment... a training camp of a couple of days will cost some money... when the US high performance program delivers.... the parents and kids have real information to move forward.

Final point... Kids don't want to look bad to their peers or anyone... So, they don't just jump into something where they will look foolish... Programs are a work-around for that psychology. (Tried for years to get kids to take a free boat to a race... does not happen! .... THEY love to just sail it tho)

What you propose is best left to the boat builder... it's called marketing. Or a Yacht Club... it's called membership drive.

Yes, it's about the money. To live on, train on and compete on. I've met 2 Olympic aspirants over the years. Robbie Daniel when he was racing a Hobie 18 in Fort Myers and a high school friend of my wife who was a track athlete. Jill Nickerson did great promo work with Robbie so I was able to follow his trials and tribulations through her articles for Multihulls Magazine. Robbie was in a program with Home Depot where he worked for the company and they allowed him time to train and compete. The track star has a similar situation with Mobil Oil.

Are there stilll programs such as these?

The last quad was very different for US Sailors compared to Robbie, your track buddies experience... or Bob M's experience... These sailors did not have financial or coaching support that was remotely adequate from US Olympic.

US Olympic provided 60 days of on the water coaching and other financial support after a succesful fund raising push... The problem was coaching, competition,experience, and pipeline... (assuming the sailors had equal talent)

I never mentioned US Olympic. Are corporations still providing this support?

On point 3, is it? How many of those AYC sailors have been on a double trapeze boat? I can count on one hand the number of those boats parked in downtown Annapolis, so I'm guessing the percentage isn't very high.

The fundamental issue is a culture switch. When speaking directly to the high school sailor, they would love to be on a double trapeze boat, but they aren't going to do it if their friends are off campaigning C420's. The solution is to take some of that 420 funding and buy 6x F16's/29er's etc. and build a viable fleet with paid coaching. You won't see people break out of the college sailing mode until the yacht clubs change their base program. Its too easy for the parents to drop the kids off at the club, coaches take care of transportation, no need to move boats, and they're hanging out with 18+ of their like-minded friends.

Probably the best suggestions will come from our Olympic sailors that have won a metal. Looks like it takes a lot of dedication, time and money. In addition to Bob's comments, we should hear from John Lovell and Charlie Ogletree.

In the past, I have donated to the Olympic Committee Fund. With the return of Multihulls to the 2016 Games, I plan on shifting support directly to our Teams working to earn the position to represent USA. As Bob Suggests, you may want to do the same.

Caleb Tarleton
www.sailsandpoint.org

I agree with you Caleb, but what if I was an old senile monohull dude who wanted to support whatever Olympic program was out there developing the teams to represent us? Should I just give to the USOC? Or would that also allocate my funds to the Curling team?

If the USOC is the primary means to get people to the Olympics, where would USS fit in that picture? Is it an adjunct organization for

the rest of us

?

US Sailing collects donations specifically for Olympic sailors. Go to the website, and you will see several options.

It's not obvious if you can make a donation to specifically help multihull sailors, but I'm sure if you called and made that a condition of your donation, they wouldn't turn you away.

As Bob mentioned, you can always donate to a specific team of your choice if you prefer.

We may mock curling all day long, but they get a TON of air time...

Mike