Hi all,
in a different discussion some sailors expressed that they did not see much value of being class members.
I think one of the big reasons for not being satisfied with any organization or service you have purchased is the difference in expectations compared to what is delivered.
After considering for a while, I became uncertain if what I expect from a catamaran class is the same as
everybody else
expects..
I also believe that the class have a right to expect a number of things from the class members.
E.g. I expect the following from a class officers
* Taking initative to organizing an annual event
* Representing the class interests in communication with government on all levels
* Organizing and AGM and ballots
* Running class business and collecting membership dues etc.
* Taking initiative to improving the class (racing, equipment, playing field) where seen neccesary
Nice to have from a class is in my opinion:
* A newsletter for ideas and to connect with people. Stay current with developments
* a place to discuss with like minded people
I feel obligated to deliver this to the class
* Membership dues
* Be engaged in discussions and deliver insights I feel might be overlooked.
* Represent the class in a positive manner.
* Network with officers and members
* Take part in needed work and improvements for the class.
What do you others expect from a catamaran class organisation, and what do you feel obliged to do/deliver/give to support the class you are members of?
Is there a disconnect between what you think a class should deliver and what you expect from a class?
Do you feel that you are contributing to the class?
PS: Please, lets try to not mention names or specific classes. The idea here is to chart out expectations, deliverables and what the gap is.
in a different discussion some sailors expressed that they did not see much value of being class members.
I think one of the big reasons for not being satisfied with any organization or service you have purchased is the difference in expectations compared to what is delivered.
After considering for a while, I became uncertain if what I expect from a catamaran class is the same as
everybody else
expects..
I also believe that the class have a right to expect a number of things from the class members.
E.g. I expect the following from a class officers
* Taking initative to organizing an annual event
* Representing the class interests in communication with government on all levels
* Organizing and AGM and ballots
* Running class business and collecting membership dues etc.
* Taking initiative to improving the class (racing, equipment, playing field) where seen neccesary
You have built a class that is focused on the top down and is entirely transactional.
The national event cost XXX... the purpose or goal of the class is to crown a champion.
The class you described arranges with some Yacht Club to run the event and the YC will be the Organizing authority and follow your championship conditions (or wing it)
Most sailors will simply add the cost of Class Dues to the cost of the event and be done with it. They don't care if the class purchased a keg of beer for the event with the dues.... it is just a buisness deal... dollars for event.
You may actually collect your dues if the OA makes arrangements to cut you a check for any dues they collect ... but usually, they say that is the class's job to enforce membership..
The alternative is for the class to assume that the NA's will be paid for by the sailors who attend them. The goal of the class could be to use the class dues and focus on the bottom of the class and worry about the last class member and how to retain them....
The goal is to grow the class participation.... not to crown a NA champion.
Some times I dont get you at all Mark. I have not built or described any class. Just outlined my thoughts on the mutual relationship between class organization and members.
It seems like you are touching the purpose of a class, not expectations. A bit of a different topic in my opinion.
First you need agreement on the purpose of the class... You assume that that this agreement exits and then you detail your list of expectations.
If we don't agree on the class purpose... we will never agree on expectations and deliverable's.
Multihulls have a large number of Manufacturer controlled classes.. The builder sets the goals and the class rules and then sells the sailors something.. Nacra organized most of the NA's for their boats in the US and the owners rarely demanded or took control of their own fate...
Builders like Melges have perfected this model and have sold LOTS of OD class sport boats AND a Regatta Racing Circuit. If you like the deal... you buy it.
The culture is.... you buy a regatta service.... The class dues are an annoyance.
I feel that there is some history/animosity flowing here and am reluctant to step into it!
Not from my side, and it is a general question.
The reason for the question is that there seems to be a disconnect or gap between expectations and deliverables. I wanted to hear others opinions on this.
File this under
what have you done for sailing today
..
If we don't agree on the class purpose... we will never agree on expectations and deliverable's.
Multihulls have a large number of Manufacturer controlled classes.. The builder sets the goals and the class rules and then sells the sailors something.. Nacra organized most of the NA's for their boats in the US and the owners rarely demanded or took control of their own fate...
Builders like Melges have perfected this model and have sold LOTS of OD class sport boats AND a Regatta Racing Circuit. If you like the deal... you buy it.
The culture is.... you buy a regatta service.... The class dues are an annoyance.
I am not out here designing a class or inventing something new. I just want to know about what people expect and believe today.
Thanks for your opinion on One Design manufacturer controlled classes.
Mark is one of the major trolls on this site who feel they have proprietary control of it and of all sailing for that matter. I often think of it as Troll Valley High School, complete with small minded social clique.
I disagree Pete. I think Mark means well and shares his opinions readily. A troll is just an attention seeker and I dont believe that about Mark.
I dont agree with Mark or understand him all the time though <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
Pretty simple to me.
Class provides.
1. Class Rules. Whatever they might be they have to be written down.
2. Nationals regatta where all members of the class can come together once a year to race (and drink beer).
Bonuses some not needed for smaller classes.
1. A way to qualify for Worlds.
2. Regional regattas
3. Point systems to win a Region
4. Group buys for items that are not easily obtained individually such as Masts.
5. Youth grants / Ways to get Youth into class /
6. Seminars / Classes / Tuning guides.
7. A website to obtain information
I'm sure I'm missing things.
Class provides.
1. Class Rules. Whatever they might be they have to be written down.
2. Nationals regatta where all members of the class can come together once a year to race (and drink beer).
Bonuses some not needed for smaller classes.
1. A way to qualify for Worlds.
2. Regional regattas
3. Point systems to win a Region
4. Group buys for items that are not easily obtained individually such as Masts.
5. Youth grants / Ways to get Youth into class /
6. Seminars / Classes / Tuning guides.
7. A website to obtain information
I'm sure I'm missing things.
Great input Mike!
What do you think the class expects from you?
Class provides.
1. Class Rules. Whatever they might be they have to be written down.
2. Nationals regatta where all members of the class can come together once a year to race (and drink beer).
Bonuses some not needed for smaller classes.
1. A way to qualify for Worlds.
2. Regional regattas
3. Point systems to win a Region
4. Group buys for items that are not easily obtained individually such as Masts.
5. Youth grants / Ways to get Youth into class /
6. Seminars / Classes / Tuning guides.
7. A website to obtain information
I'm sure I'm missing things.
A few others
Purchase and maintenance of scales and other measurement related equipment
Shipping of this equipment to race venues that it is required at
Maintenance of class website
Scales can be simple, relatively inexpensive or elaborate and quite costly.
Opinions about accuracy and suitability are varied and, as always, a point of dissension.
Opinions about accuracy and suitability are varied and, as always, a point of dissension.
Scales have not been a point of dissension in the F18 class.
Opinions about accuracy and suitability are varied and, as always, a point of dissension.
Scales have not been a point of dissension in the F18 class.
Nor in the F16 class, apparently most boats needn't worry about being under weight ... I'll go back in my hole now ... sorry.
Actually there was a little head scratching and cogitatin' as to the best way to go about it. But that was way back when.
These people didn't happen to be Nacra 20 sailors - were they?
No.
No, not Nacra 20 sailors.
Who/what class is not important. What I find important is what sailors expect and think about the question.
From the lack of opinions voiced here the topic seems to be without interest, the expectations are very clear, sailors here expect nothing from classes (and vice versa) or perhaps the topic is very sensitive. I dont know..
My thoughts are when I join something I feel obligated, when I join a club I fully support it, but I don't have enough time to support my class so if I can get away without another obligation, I'm happy.
There are those that
do
and those that
don't
in any club. The more I get older, there seems less of the
doers
and more of the
don'ters
Mind you we could be like everyone else and simply blame the government and request more money to solve all the problems when they eventually arrive.
OK getting off thread here. Rolf you are wasting your time on this one, perhaps you may wish to restrict responses to those that actually put time and energy into running a club or class rather than any internet wannabee, we may get some relative answers then.
Hi Wayne,
with the underwhelming response to the question I dont see any opportunity to restrict responses <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />
Will have to chase the different classes and beat the bushes to get feedback I think.
Thanks to those who flagged their expectations!
I feel like I'm part of the reason that this thread was started, so I'll jump in.
At minimum I knew there were private forums available only to class members, so I figured I would at least have access to them. Also, I saw names of members on a website and I saw where members could reserve sail numbers (Again there was a list on a website,) so I figured I would get that much as well. I guess in summary I expected recognition as a member and not much more.
What I got was nothing. My name wasn't put on the list, my sail number wasn't put on the other list. I didn't get access to the private forum until I badgered people for months, and then when I did get access, I found that the forum was largely inactive.
If the only point in being a member is so I can race in the very few sanctioned events, then membership just isn't for me.
So they haven't taught you the secret handshake and the club where all the really good looking folk hang out?
Oops, probably said too much already....
They didn't even acknowledge the fact that I paid. Not even a receipt. If my bank account hadn't been deleted, I wouldn't have known anything happened.