i searched and found a couple of threads talking about big guys and beach cats. however, i am asking for some specific expert advice to point me towards the right boat or two to search for and help me narrow my search.
i am 41 and an old blue water sailor who has been away from sailing for years. i took my family sailing on a hobie getaway while on vacation and they really liked it. however, i didn't like the performance of the getaway. the hulls were buoyant enough for the family, but the boat was fairly slow and not very exciting to sail solo.
i am going to sail 50% with my family and 50% alone. i weigh 260lbs and am not in the best shape of my life. with the family we will be 4 persons and 500+lbs. i will more than likely have to rig it each time from a boat ramp (unless i can find a very inexpensive place to leave the boat rigged) with minimal help from my wife. my daughters are both too young to help much at this point. we sail on the tennessee river and two large lakes (guntersville,wheeler) outside of huntsville alabama. there is a constant current of 3kts on the river and some areas are shallower than 3'. i am not however scared of daggerboards as the bulk of sailing will be done on the lake rather than river portion. i'd like to keep my budget under 4k if possible and reasonable. i'm looking for a boat that will be fun to sail, carry my family when i'm not solo, not be an absolute nightmare to rig, and not be impossible to find parts for when things break!!!
i really enjoyed sailing a supercat 19 many years ago, but i have no experience on beach cats other than one day on the getaway and many sails on hobie 16s. i could really use advice on which cats would most suit our needs. i recognize that there are many variables and that everything is give and take. however, i'd like to narrow it down to just a couple of boats that fit our criteria. thanks for the help.
edited by: 2out2sea, Aug 08, 2010 - 12:46 PM
the prindle 16/18 is a great family, "big boy", first cat. no boards, simple set up, large payload capacity, adequate performance. a 4k budget gets a real nice boat, parts readily available, easy solo sail, solo mast step on my p-16. sell it for what you paid when/if upgrade. one of my crew is 260 ish and i am 230ish, no problems, even in rough conditions. mine goes from trailor to rigged and loaded for sail in under 30 mins with minimal hep, a little longer solo.
coastrat,
thanks for the quick reply. are the 16/18 hulls bouyant enough not to submerge when flying a hull? i haven't even bothered looking at an h16 for the simple fact that i could easily submarine the lee hull even back when i was "only" 215-220lbs.
do you know how the p18 compares to the p19? thanks again for the advice.
I agree with coastrat. I have owned two hobies and 1 prindle. The p16/18 are great boats. Hobie 18's after 1986 is a fun boat. (too heavy prior) Prindle 19 I have never sailed but I would love to have one
i have had 3 big guys(680lbs) on my p-16 in 20-25kt winds and still couldn't bury a hull. the p-18 is the old design(like p-16, no boards). the p-18-2 and 19 are modern designs(center boards). the old designs are easier to handle all around(family friendly) whereas the newer ones are total high performance. i would definitely recommend the old school for a first cat, learn how to get every bit of speed out of it before you upgrade. good luck
Nacra or Prindle ...Can't go wrong.
the prindle 18-2 and 19 have kick up center boards so solo is no problem. tramp does get a little crowded with 4 way jib system so performance or comfort it is your call. either way, these 2 can easily handle the load. some 18-2 parts are harder to find as they are a little rarer then 19's
thanks everyone. i like the idea of the p16 being easier to set-up and sail. it will keep the family interested if it's not too complicated. can anyone recommend a nacra? are they too high performance oriented? i do want a decent sailing cat. a large part of the reason i wasn't interested in the getaway was that i felt it to be a poor performer. sure it was simple to sail and family friendly, but was downright boring solo. i appreciate everyones input. it's tough being a big guy and trying to find the right combination.
brad
Don't rule out a H18 either. It does have daggerboards but you said that wasn't a problem. I personally like my H18 Magnum with wings. Could also find an H18SX that has wings also. It could handle your weight requirements and basically has bench seats which makes my wife (and me) much happier then sitting on the hulls.
You are right the H16 is to small for you. H17 would also be to small.
Lake Guntersville can be a nice lake to sail on if you can get the wind to cooperate. Never sailed Wheeler.
~~ Scotts right..... I have a 17 & 18 Mag. so I know how both of them sail.... I weigh 185... An 18 would be good for you
2out2sea wrote: can anyone recommend a nacra?
Brad, I don't know if you have heard but, chicks dig Nacras!
mummp wrote: [quote=2out2sea] can anyone recommend a nacra?
Brad, I don't know if you have heard but, chicks dig Nacras!
Chicks like this!
Of course that is Andrew's wife after he showed her the trap hraness.
I agree the p18 can handle the weight no problem but putting 4 people can be tricky in space to move around for tacking/gybing. It's hard to put 4 people on most of the boats and still have great performace. As far as Family Comfort the Getaway is probably the best.
I had 3 adults. That's me and my brother and his wife on last weekend and I am easily 2 adults worth myself and we didn't fly a hull but we had it going pretty good and did have the windward hull higher in the water than the leeward. I don't really know how much wind we had, It was decent for us but not really ripping by any means.
golfdad75 wrote: Of course that is Andrew's wife after he showed her the trap hraness.
My wife (future) is pissed off at that comment
Quarath wrote: I agree the p18 can handle the weight no problem but putting 4 people can be tricky in space to move around for tacking/gybing. It's hard to put 4 people on most of the boats and still have great performace. As far as Family Comfort the Getaway is probably the best.
I had 3 adults. That's me and my brother and his wife on last weekend and I am easily 2 adults worth myself and we didn't fly a hull but we had it going pretty good and did have the windward hull higher in the water than the leeward. I don't really know how much wind we had, It was decent for us but not really ripping by any means.
the only thing that i like better about the nacra at this point is the boomless main. other than that it sounds like the p18 is a good choice for my family with enough bouyancy to have both of andrew's ladies tag along.
Quarath
I agree the p18 can handle the weight no problem but putting 4 people can be tricky in space to move around for tacking/gybing. It's hard to put 4 people on most of the boats and still have great performace. As far as Family Comfort the Getaway is probably the best.
This is a big advantage of the wings on a H18M or SX when taking spectators out. You can get people up off the tramp and out of the way. Plus they get to enjoy the ride and view without worrying about all that stuff going on to make the boat turn around. Similar comfort result as the Getaway, but a bigger more performance oriented boat.
BTW wings are also a lot of fun when you are solo and on the wire also since you are that much higher in the air.
smfinley wrote: This is a big advantage of the wings on a H18M or SX when taking spectators out. You can get people up off the tramp and out of the way.
This is the big reason I've stuck with a winged H18 all these years. I've taken four adults out through surf when I was the only one on board who sailed "everyone on the wings!".
Last summer took my "mid 70's" parents out with one on each wing and they never had to move, crawl across the tramp, or worry about getting hit with the boom.
Last summer took my "mid 70's" parents out with one on each wing and they never had to move, crawl across the tramp, or worry about getting hit with the boom.
and you can always remove the wings if you WANT someone to get hit with a boom.
ok, so the hobie 18 is in the running. question is how hard to rig on the trailer? fwiw my wife is gently nudging towards getting a getaway (groan). "we had so much fun...i don't know if we'll like one that's more complicated..." etc.
2out2sea wrote: ok, so the hobie 18 is in the running. question is how hard to rig on the trailer? fwiw my wife is gently nudging towards getting a getaway (groan). "we had so much fun...i don't know if we'll like one that's more complicated..." etc.
Nothing wrong with the Getaway, get the front tramp and wings and you can carry a baseball team.
Not much difference in rigging a Hobie 18 and Getaway, or any other sloop-rigged beachcat. They get a lot more complicated with spinnaker, and a lot simpler if they don't have a jib. Other than that it's all up to how well you know the boat and if you have any help that knows the boat.
When people quote "time to rig" it's almost a random number because of so many variables and peoples different definitions of "rigging" a boat.
What makes much more difference than the boat type is when you have skipper and crew who regularly rig the boat together, both know their jobs and what the other is doing, don't have to talk about it, don't have to figure out how something is supposed to be rigged, don't have to hunt down the parts needed, and don't make mistakes that have to be undone and redone.
That skipper and crew will have a short rigging time regardless of boat.
Unfortunately ALL NEWBIES MUST STRUGGLE 👿 to get to that point, it's just the way it works with anything new you are learning.
andrewscott wrote: [quote=golfdad75]Of course that is Andrew's wife after he showed her the trap hraness.
My wife (future) is pissed off at that comment
I am impressed Andrew, Jeeny Craig does wonders
damonAdmin wrote: When people quote "time to rig" it's almost a random number because of so many variables and peoples different definitions of "rigging" a boat.
What makes much more difference than the boat type is when you have skipper and crew who regularly rig the boat together, both know their jobs and what the other is doing, don't have to talk about it, don't have to figure out how something is supposed to be rigged, don't have to hunt down the parts needed, and don't make mistakes that have to be undone and redone.
That skipper and crew will have a short rigging time regardless of boat.
Unfortunately ALL NEWBIES MUST STRUGGLE 👿 to get to that point, it's just the way it works with anything new you are learning.
unless my daughters are replaced by aliens, i have little hope of assistance from either of them. mechanical intuition isn't a character trait that i was able to pass on to them. i'm just glad that they and their mother enjoy being on the water. i am going to be doing the rigging. unfortunately i'm wondering if the getaway might not be the best choice after all simply b/c of the front tramp. i had forgotten about that feature. guess where everyone spent their time when we were sailing. oh well. we'll see if i can convince everyone of the benenfits of going faster!!!
Hi there, I'm kinda in the same boat as you.... I have two daughters 9 and 11, the four of us go sailing on our SuperCat 17 with no troubles. Some things that I like about the SC 17 now that I've had it for a while are that it's boardless and boomless, it doesn't have any poles or ropes holding the tramp up, just one big unobstructed tramp. The tops of the hulls are rounded which makes it nice on the kids when they are out on the wire. I've enjoyed the support from Aquarius Sail, the manufacturer. Seems to point well but this is the only Cat I've had. Some cautions about the SC17 would be, when you are going fast enough to be flying a hull you really have to be on top of your fore/aft weight distribution.
Having said all that if I knew then what I know now I would have also looked at a Nacra 5.7 or 570 but I am very happy with my SC17 for all that I've asked of it.
front tramps are great for storage (i added one to my cat) but for most sailing situations.. the front tramp is the wrong place to have a person.
that being said the ability to get the cooler, bar, tv, pool table and jacuzzi off the main tramp will free up area for the crew to have more room
andrewscott wrote: front tramps are great for storage (i added one to my cat) but for most sailing situations.. the front tramp is the wrong place to have a person.
that being said the ability to get the cooler, bar, tv, pool table and jacuzzi off the main tramp will free up area for the crew to have more room
when sailing slow with the family they loved sitting up there on the front tramp and getting wet. i just sat back at the helm and steered. it was slow going, but they had a ball. wondering now if it's possible to add a tramp to say a prindle 16 or hobie 18 that would be sturdy enough for people to lay on? i really don't want to buy a getaway if possible. for one it's beyond my proposed budget, and two it's just downright dull to sail. yeah sure it's simple and family friendly, but i'd really like to have at least a little performance out of my investment. if i wanted to go slow i'd buy a 25' monohull.
vintagemilano wrote: Hi there, I'm kinda in the same boat as you.... I have two daughters 9 and 11, the four of us go sailing on our SuperCat 17 with no troubles. Some things that I like about the SC 17 now that I've had it for a while are that it's boardless and boomless, it doesn't have any poles or ropes holding the tramp up, just one big unobstructed tramp. The tops of the hulls are rounded which makes it nice on the kids when they are out on the wire. I've enjoyed the support from Aquarius Sail, the manufacturer. Seems to point well but this is the only Cat I've had. Some cautions about the SC17 would be, when you are going fast enough to be flying a hull you really have to be on top of your fore/aft weight distribution.
Having said all that if I knew then what I know now I would have also looked at a Nacra 5.7 or 570 but I am very happy with my SC17 for all that I've asked of it.
i will look into a supercat 19. i loved that boat years ago, but didn't realize that they were still available. i'll call aquarius. thanks for the heads-up.
If you want wet .. supercats are the way to go..
but i am sure you recall the mast is about 5999999 lbs
wondering now if it's possible to add a tramp to say a prindle 16 or hobie 18 that would be sturdy enough for people to lay on?
can it be done? yes. will the boat sail well... no (maybe downwind, but i wouldn't put weight that far forward ... up, down or sidewind)
I agree with Damon on the keys to rigging time. It really comes down to practice and organization. I have setup my H18 by myself faster then the two people rigging a H16 at the same time. I got a hand to raise the mast, but can do everything else myself. There is incrementally more work the more complex a boat you have, but it also depends on what you take off for trailering and how you store things. Everyone does it differently and you need to learn what works best for you.
Look at the adds for another boat Dart Stampede-20: Boomless, clean deck, 4 trapeses, furling jib. Mast does not have diamond wires. Boat is trailored backwards making it easier to raise the mast. The mast is light. I can sail the boat singlehanded up to 20mph wind, I weigh 190, after that I need crew. Wife's weight is classified.[email][/email] I have sailed in over 40mph with 2 other adults on board, that is a little harry, Andrew can attest to that. A couple of weeks ago I took my brother, his daughter & her 3 friends out for a a cruise (ages 5-12). All had a blast. G-cat, Supercat 17 or 19, H-18, P-18, Nacra 570 would all be good choices.