Big Guys and Wave Racing

I put a tiller extension on mine, but I remove it when racing with IWCA. Locals don't know the difference.

A class-legal manueuver is to tie the bitter end of the mainsheet to a corner of the tiller crossbar, and tug to steer.

What most folks do when racing downwind is to simply lie face-down on the tramp (head foreward) and steer with your toes. There are lots of photos on this site of IWCA racers employing this technique.

I don't know if this is class legal but here is what I've been doing.

I have a long bungie hooked in my center lacing for storage. I hook it on the lacing forward of the tiller crossbar and take a full turn or two around the bar, then stretch it as far forward as it can go and hook it again to the lacing. Now I can lie WAY forward and steer either way by pressing sideways on the bungie with my foot. This works in light air only, of course. It is really nice downwind as the extra turn hold it quite steady and I only need occasional tweaks to hold a steady course. Gives me time to find and open a beer!

I like this idea!

Class-legal or not, I'll have a bungee on mine tonight.

Just don't fall off! <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Tiller extensions are not allowed and for a very good reason. Nor are any lines, bungees, or the like. You have to steer with your hands, feet or whatever other body part you feel will work. Hummm, that leaves a lot to the imagination.
After 14 years of racing them we have all concluded that lighter sailors are faster off the wind. But, once we found that the taller, heavier people could get further forward than the little people, they did not gain as much distance. If they had extensions, you would automatically lose all bigger sailors in the class.
There may be many other factors to your problems. Several of us tried Whirlwind and made suggestions to Chip to get them faster, but he didn’t particularly want to work with to get them faster. For your weight you will need a fuller sail than your smaller competitors. At this point the best sailmakers are Calvert (sold on this site) and Bossset North Sails (NJ somewhere). I am playing with a Dacron Calvert that is very full – I was 235, but now down to 192.
Next there is the rigging. The hot setup is to use a 10 hole adjuster on the forestay and have slack sidestays. Mine were so slack I took the adjusters off and just use shackles.
As you found out weight distribution is paramount.

Thanks, Rick. I read somewhere, a back issue of the print edition I think, about techniques for us bigger guys to keep up. I was hoping for a magic bullet. It was up to 25 knots last night and it was a hoot! What a great boat! But, unfortunately for me, I still have a similar speed disadvantage. 50 yards at A, 300 or 400 at the finish. I'm using the 10 hole adjuster and really sloppy, hand can turn at least 45 degrees, stays. I don't believe that a $1000 sail is going to be 400 yards faster.

Discouraged.

Except for the fun of sailing the boat in that much breeze.

The Dacron Calvert sail is priced pretty fairly at $588 and is definitely faster than Whirlwind. Here is the link:
https://store.catsailor.com/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=30719&idcategory=257

As I said the one I have is full, so I max out the downhaul and sheet really hard, hooking up the sheet as far forward as I can go, and that flattens it out pretty well. In light air, just ease it off.
Rick

Buy the best sail you can get and then learn how to use it, never cut back on the sail.

So that's it ... steer with your toes? Hard on my creaky old neck or hard on my creaky old knees. But I guess that's the price you pay for having fun. And I do enjoy sailing and racing this boat.

Thanks

Make sure the mast takes the slack out of the sidestays. I can't get my boat going with too much rake like the other sailor do. Get the boat to go on all points of sail if you have to give up somewhere.
Good Luck

I didn't understand about the sidestays. However I've started trying moving the mast forward as you suggested. When I raced a 17 I had to have a lot less rake than the guys who were down to minimum weight. That was quicker downwind, and alas, slower upwind.

Appreciate the good luck. Thanks.

PS Most importantly my granddaughter loves the boat! The water splashes up through the centre of the trampoline.

The reason for raking the mast aft is to put the center of sail effort more toward the rudders, thus making them the daggerboards.
Rick

Well, Rick, I've cleverly arranged for my boat to be deeper in the water, by a 1/2

or so, to provide more resistance to leeway. So I should need to rely less on the rudders, right?

You know I could do some math, each hull is about 10.25 sq. ft. in area. Mine displaces about 100 pounds more water than yours, or 1.5 cubic feet, so I push the boat .14 inches deeper in the water. Call it an 1/8

. Wait ... there's two hulls. So now we'll call it 1/16". Crap. It's hard for me to imagine that little bit of extra wetted surface makes any difference at all. Unless there's something I'm missing. I should quit whining and learn to sail.

Crap. Nut on the end of the tiller again.

BW,

It sounds like you have a fleet. Y'all ought to come down to the Put-In-Bay Bay Week Regatta. We will have nearly 30 Waves.

August 5-8.

We can argue with Rick about tiller extensions.

I think we should have a minimum crew weight of 150# and anyone over 180# can have a tiller extension. That is just my opinion.

Check out the F18 YouTube on boat balance at the top of the page. Jack has a good idea. Come down to PIB and try out some other sails and see if your better. I'm sure you can If you get there a day or so early.

The chance to race against 30 Waves and argue with Rick in the same place? Well that sounds like fun.

When other classes want to make rule changes they sometimes allow an

experimental

use of ... whatever. Then everybody gets some experience with how well it works or doesn't. Then they can implement the rule or not, and the guys that went ahead and took the risk have to take it off. At lesat they know up front what might happen.

Google maps says Put-In-Bay is on an island. Is that where the regatta is?

First, do as Rick has suggested. Second, you can transfer your weight forward off the wind and still steer with your hands - you can lie down with your feet forward as easily as the other way around. Third, if you can get to P-I-B this summer, you will definitely learn a lot. Fourth, weight always makes a difference - pushing more than an extra cubic foot of water out of the way every boat length simply requires more energy. Laws of physics don't change for sailboat races. Finally, consider doing yourself a favor by losing some weight. Google your height/weight combo to see where the recommendation lies. It could be the best result that your sailboat racing ever produces! I would always welcome luck but more important is knowledge and preparation. Ever notice how lucky the best prepared people are? You can do it!!

Your a tough-love coach, Mike!

Right on, Put in Bay is located on South Bass Island, probably the most fun island in North America. We have a strong fleet of racing sailors, including two world champs, 3 National Champs, and two North Americans. Plus for that regatta my son and daughter-in-law (she is two time national and one time NA)and he has been runner up to her most of those times.
SO, there will be a lot of talent and all are willing to share their knowledge

No doubt; but I stand by what I wrote. As you know, Rick, I live with a Registered Dietition, so after 35 years of marriage I have become a disciple! It is no accident that at age 57 I am within a few pounds of the recommended weight at my height. I have way too many friends and relatives with serious health issues due directly to obesity so I am no longer shy about recomendations on the topic. It is THE NUMBER ONE thing that people can do as a present to themselves! I used my Boyer Mark IV A cat as incentive to get down to its weight of 165 pounds to be able to sail it. Whatever it takes! In the meantime, BigWhoop can get a fuller sail and do the other things you advised. I hope he keeps pressing to improve and can shed some pounds in the process. As you know, the Wave is a great boat to find racers who will challenge you all the way around the course!

I am relatively new to sailing, have owned my Wave now for 6 weeks, and been having a blast sailing it on the weekends in Texas at Lake Buchanan and the Texas City Dike. I have seen the postings with the helpful performance recommendations on mast rake and keeping your weight forward. Obviously I am a recreational sailor gaining experience at this point, and don’t want to do anything to preclude racing in the future.

I would like to know what I should add next to my Wave to get more performance. Many of the postings from 2008 recommend improving sail shape by adding a traveller and later postings from 2011 recommend adding one of the new, fuller, high-tech sails. However, it seems to me that those already using a high-tech sail report neglible performance gains from a traveller. If so, then perhaps I should just go ahead and get a fuller high-tech sail and not waste money on a traveller.

So my question is: which option provides the highest raw performance on a Wave for a 200 lb. sailor?
a) adding a traveller to a standard Hobie sail (~$200)
b) adding a fuller high-tech sail without a traveller (e.g., Calvert dacron
sail costs ~$600)

Is it worth adding both a traveller and a fuller high-tech sail to a Wave at a later point?

Thanks for any help.

The best thing you can do is save your money and go sailing!

Time on the water, getting the feel of response to changing conditions, practice tacking and mark-rounding, practice starts, etc... All those will have more dramatic effects on performance than a traveller or new sail.

Actually,

high tech

sails are legal under IWCA rules, but are not allowed in HCANA races; and travellers are not allowed in racing by either class association. So it depends on whom you plan to race against.

Good advice. And a traveler will offer nothing. You would not notice any significant speed increase with a high tech sail. It would only show up when racing othere boats.
If you want a lot more speed, try the Hooter.
http://www.catsailor.com/waves/superwave_overall.html
I was able to beat most H16s and some H18s in a distance race.
Rick

Hi everyone. I'm one of the people Big Whoop races with. I'm can vouch for the fact that no-one on the Ottawa River has more cat sailing experience or knowledge of local (Voodoo) wind conditions than Big Whoop. He is dangerous man to be near at the start line. I sail with a standard Hobie mainsail and easy-lock rudders. I use a 30" tiller extension and am sure it is one of the reasons I seem to finish ahead. I (along with Big Whoop) attended Madcatter this year and managed to finish 4th (my first experience racing a Wave). My thoughts on the tiller extension are that since all future Waves will come with easy-lock rudders, if it is truly the desire to grow the number of Wave racers, something must be done to close the competitive advantage of those using the older rudder system. If nothing is done, eventually I suspect, Wave racing will become the domain of lightweight sailors with enough cash to buy competitive rudder systems and go-fast sails. So....I have a couple of of suggestions:

1) Allow easy-lock rudder users to have tiller extensions

2) Allow the use the bungee cord system I read about on this forum for easy-lock rudder users

3) Set up a handicap system for easy-lock rudder systems (I really hate this idea)

BTW Mimi, we had an *awesome* time at Madcatter and I suspect there will be at least 3 Waves from LDSC at next year's regatta.

NorthernWave

This is in response to the following quote:

Wave racing will become the domain of lightweight sailors with enough cash to buy competitive rudder systems and go-fast sails

.

The sail has to be replaced sooner or later - sooner if you sail and practice often. So buying a new sail to race with really does not add to the cost - it may only accelerate what you would spend eventually anyway. Buying a new sail that can be made to your specifications (fuller for heavier; flatter for lighter sailor weights) also helps to even the competition and provides more owner satisfaction. The sail still has to measure in so that it is even in that regard but shaping the sail to individual needs can be a big help and is money much better spent than being forced to buy whatever sail that Hobie happens to have this year (yes, it changes a lot from year to year, based on their desires, not yours). Having a couple sails, in any case, is always a good plan since it is expensive to travel and being out of a regatta after a sail is damaged is no fun. It also allows you to use one just for racing so that it stays in good shape and having one just for fun and not worrying about kids or newbies (or even you) being rough on it.

As for the rudders, it just highlights why the IWCA exists. Hobie just made that change when and as it suited them (no owner involvement). The other reason, btw, is that it is THE ONLY Hobie Wave class association, something that seems to get easily overlooked.

I appreciate what you have to say about the sails, and I will no doubt be needing a new one in the future. Calvert or North seems like the way to go.

Nevertheless, the main point I was trying to raise is that compared to the easy-lock system, older rudder systems have a substantial built-in

tiller extension

. My experience is that the difference is not so important going downwind, but it is significant going upwind. Since it seems unlikely that Hobie will be going back to older rudders, I would like to see consideration given to leveling the competitive advantage enjoyed by those who use the older rudder systems. I haven't priced out a new

older system

from Hobie, but I suspect it would be prohibitively expensive for me.

Taking the long view, how likely is it that new Wave sailors will want to race in regattas if they feel their factory equipped boat puts them at a significant disadvantage?

Without IWCA Wave racing would probably not exist in any meaningful way. Is the organization flexible enough to deal with unexpected challenges provided by Hobie in order to keep growing the class?

I think it is. I suggest you write the rule addition / change that you want and submit it to this forum for comment. That should start the necessary conversation.

Thanks Mike. I'll have something up within a week. My objective is not to upset the established racing community. I just want to make regatta racing more competitive for those of us with newer Waves and limited resources.

What does any of this mean?

As for the rudders, it just highlights why the IWCA exists. Hobie just made that change when and as it suited them (no owner involvement). The other reason, btw, is that it is THE ONLY Hobie Wave class association, something that seems to get easily overlooked

What are you talking about? And how the hell would you know anything about how/why HCA changed their rudder policy?? No owner involvement? You know this for sure? Really?
And what does this mean:

Without IWCA Wave racing would probably not exist in any meaningful way. Is the organization flexible enough to deal with unexpected challenges provided by Hobie in order to keep growing the class?

Unexpected challenges provided by Hobie? What?
No meaningful way.......define that.

I think these sideways remarks are inappropriate and devisive and am surprised that there is still ill feeling toward HCA and Hobie Cat from old guard IWCA folks.

The Wave is what it is and Hobie Cat has every right to make it any way they want to.

It is up to us, the racers to manange our class fairly, whether it be HCA or HCA-NA.

We all agree that the two different rudder systems create a problem. It makes sense to me to permit a compensating device; either an extended tiller arm or tiller extension.

In fact, Rick did give me verbal permission to extend my arms when I first got my boat, but I just bit the bullet and got the whole older system.

I think a minimum crew weight is also needed and I don't buy the reasoning that no tiller extension helps the fat guys.