I have been sailing all my life, though mostly recreationally - very little racing. I grew up sailing sunfish and lasers. I raced Albacores and also sailed a Flying Junior as a teenager. In my twenties I windsurfed alot. And when then kids came along, we bought a laser which has given us years of enjoyment. Along the way I had a chance to briefly sail a few catamarans - a Super 17, and older Dart, and a strange little thing called an Aquacat. But in total, my catamaran sailing experience might total 3 hours. I am a bit of a speed freak, and the Laser has never quite satisfied my appetite for speed the way that my windsurfer did.
Apart from speed, the real draw of the F-16 for me is its light weight, its flexibility (1-up or 2-up), and its moderate cost (compared to an A-class). My ususal sailing partner would likely be my wife or one of my kids, so total weight would be 260-340 lbs.
My questions are as follows:
1) Would my background make me a reasonable candidate for an F-16 sailor, or is this too much boat for me.
2) My patience for a boat that requires endless setup time is limited. If you have a place to keep the boat close to the water with the mast up, how long would it take to rig an F-16 (mostly likely looking at the Blade), with or without the Spn. What if you were starting from scratch, rigging the boat from a trailer.
3) Some places I sail have shoals. How durable is are the hulls on the F-16, what would likely happen if you ran aground at a reasonable speed.
4) Which options - Pentex sails, Kevlar hulls, carbon mast, etc. are most worthwhile.
5) Safety and Pitchpoling. In my one experience on a Super 17, a near pitchpole sent me (out on the trapeze) flying forward. I ended up underneath the tramp (still on the wire) after whacking my head on the forward beam. Strikes me as it could have been a bad situation. This was in the late 1980s. Have trapezes evolved since that time to stop this kind of thing from happening?
6) Are there any F-16s in Canada or in Toronto. I realize the class is still new and I dont mind being the first, but company would be nice.
7) Finally, it is a short season up here and Lake Ontario never really warms up. Compared to a laser, or other beach cats, how wet a ride is the F-16.
Thanks for your help. Hope to be an owner within 6 months.
#1 - no problem really.
#2 - from trailer to sailing will take 30 to 40 mins. Some may say less, and this is possible. But you will find that there are a few adjustments to be made, conversations to be had etc so this time frame is more reasonable to expect.
#3 - not a good idea. The high aspect boards, ie long narrow centreboards on some of the F16s, don't like this and would be likely to break if hit at speed.
#4 - kevlar hulls if you have a problem with shoals. Aluminium mast also as that is more durable and less likely to break compared to carbon (and a lot cheaper)
#5 - still happens as user error still exists. That is part and parcel of sailing high-performance trapeze boats (ie both monos and cats).
#6 - others on the forum should be able to fill you in, got no idea.
#7 - at times it can be like standing in front of a fire hose. Maybe bit extreme an example, but expect to get wet.
I am sure you will get more responses as well.
Apart from speed, the real draw of the F-16 for me is its light weight, its flexibility (1-up or 2-up), and its moderate cost (compared to an A-class). My ususal sailing partner would likely be my wife or one of my kids, so total weight would be 260-340 lbs.
My questions are as follows:
1) Would my background make me a reasonable candidate for an F-16 sailor, or is this too much boat for me.
I also spent lots of time sailboarding, I find sailing under spinnaker a similar experience, so I think you will like it, a big challenge like learning sailboarding. I sold my previous F16
Altered
to a guy with similar experience, he is enjoying it and doesn't mind crashing and burning to learn.
2) My patience for a boat that requires endless setup time is limited. If you have a place to keep the boat close to the water with the mast up, how long would it take to rig an F-16 (mostly likely looking at the Blade), with or without the Spn. What if you were starting from scratch, rigging the boat from a trailer.
Hard stand 10mins. From trailer 60 mins with yack time.
3) Some places I sail have shoals. How durable is are the hulls on the F-16, what would likely happen if you ran aground at a reasonable speed.
Don't run aground! Damage to centreboards and centreboard cases is likely if you do.
4) Which options - Pentex sails, Kevlar hulls, carbon mast, etc. are most worthwhile.
If sailing one up I would go with all options mentioned. make sure mast is above minimum weight and it is strong enough.
5) Safety and Pitchpoling. In my one experience on a Super 17, a near pitchpole sent me (out on the trapeze) flying forward. I ended up underneath the tramp (still on the wire) after whacking my head on the forward beam. Strikes me as it could have been a bad situation. This was in the late 1980s. Have trapezes evolved since that time to stop this kind of thing from happening?
There are quick release trapeze harnesses available, but in my 40 years of sailing I have only seen one person caught in the situation you describe. After a while you become expert at crashing?
6) Are there any F-16s in Canada or in Toronto. I realize the class is still new and I dont mind being the first, but company would be nice.
Don't know, but if you have any other cats with spinnaker or A's around you have company at the front of the fleet.
7) Finally, it is a short season up here and Lake Ontario never really warms up. Compared to a laser, or other beach cats, how wet a ride is the F-16.
I have found the F16 Blade dryer than other cats I have sailed.
Thanks for your help. Hope to be an owner within 6 months.
If sailing one up I would go with all options mentioned. make sure mast is above minimum weight and it is strong enough.
The alu mast die is widening a little due to frequent use and the newer batches of masts are slightly heavier, stronger and stiffer as a result. Basically, you won't have to worry about this aspect at all. The lighest masts held up great and it is impossible to expect the slightly heavier masts to be less durable.
Wouter
The kevlar is definitely worthwhile. I've handled my boat clumsily, dropping it off the trailer for instance, without serious damage. The internal downhaul is a clean and efficient add on.
Just one point about Alloy masts and I don't want to steal this thread but Alu hasn't changed for basically the last forty years but Carbon has come on leaps and bounds in the last twenty so to say the Alu is more robust isn't quite true!! and as for costs if by any chance my Carbon mast did fail it would be a hell of a lot CHEAPER for me living in the UK to purchase a JP Carbon mast than to import an Alloy Superwing from Australia. There we go I've said my bit about Masts as for the rest of a F16 I can guarantee you would not have any second thoughts after sailing one.
I've been sailing a Nacra 5.0 for quite a while before changing to a Blade last year.
The F16 is a lot faster, but as easy or even easier to control. I don't think you get a lot wetter on the Blade then an other cat.
My dad is 60 and has been sailing for 10 years on the 5.0 (mostly with me as skipper) and he didn't have any difficulties changing to the Blade also.
Just be careful hitting something (with every kind of cat).
Regards,
Gill
Regards,
Gill
60 - and he's still sailing cats <img src=
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Hmmm, I know people in their late 60's and early 70's who are still sailing cats. <img src=
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Hmmm, I know people in their late 60's and early 70's who are still sailing cats. <img src=
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That was quick Mary <img src=
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Seeing that I'm in that group now, I'm trying to get others over 60 to comment <img src=
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Wow Dermot, I would never have guessed! Keep at it!
Here in Toronto there is one former F18 sailor who races a Blade. Nice boat. Races us F18's and Acat.
I really don't want to talk about myself, but maybe this is relevant to this thread and will encourage new sailors to cat sailing.
In my opinion <img src=
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When I say Spitfire here, I really do not differentiate between it and a Formula 16.
A few. The guy in Toronto as mentioned, and I know of Bruce Barrs in Edmonton Alberts (a bit far away) and a couple in up-state New York.
Check here for locations : http:/
This frappr map is not up to date anymore, but everybody that is on there still has a boat, basically the new additions haven't registered yet.
My advice would be to find a Blade owner and beg for a test ride. Then you know what to expect in stead of believe us on our world. But the old addagio still holds (it orginated with the Taipans).
Don't test sail a F16 if your are not prepared to want one !
Wouter
How does he do in comparison. I mean relative to before and after the switch ?
Wouter
Come on now Dermot, I know you have deep roots in the Swell ethos but a true F16 is what you're really craving!! Have a GREAT day and don't open too many bottles whilst watching the other sport <img src=
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/> What are you doing between the 9th-12th Aug. I'm sure we'd all like you to join us at our Welsh World's in body if not on the water.
Dermot is lying, probably trying to get some
senior Citizen discount
or something. <img src=
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I've seen him up close, I tell you he isn't a day over 50! And Dermot, could you please send me one of those
sisters
for the Gulfport regatta? Wouldn't it be great to have an authentic Irish Lasse on St. Patty's day over here! <img src=
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Hey Canuck! As soon as the water warms, the Blade F16 #722 will be back out on Lake Ontario out of EYC. Track me down if you want to go for a blast! Apparently there is also a Taipan sailing out one of the outer harbour clubs, but I have yet to see it. It would be nice to get another F16 out to race with.
I think I'm doing better thanks!
So I can mark you down as a happy customer ?! <img src=
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Wouter
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Going to the Scotland game today - And the Wales game on the 8th March - Are you coming over <img src=
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I'll be at a wedding in Palo Alto at the end of July - and, like the Queen, If I'm not in Kerry for the first 2 weeks in August, the world, as we know it, will end <img src=
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Tim, One of the sisters has been working in New York for the past year, but I think that she will be home soon.
Dermot, I'm in Bombay right now but in 5 hours we depart for New York (I heard it's snowing??), JFK airport. Tell her my flight arrives about 0705 Sunday morning, if she meets me then I can probably give her a lift to Orlando, then we can get the boat rigged up and start practicing!
She might have to quit that job, working is highly over-rated anyway! Oh, and there are jobs in Florida too, and it never snows! <img src=
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So I can mark you down as a happy customer ?! <img src=
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Wouter
I love my Blade! It's amazing having boats on the water comment (keel and even a motor boat) about how sharp the Blade looks! And its a great ride too, nothing like being singlehanded with the chute up and blasting by other boats.
Put me down for a yes to that one.
Hey Rick-Are you going to come down to Spring Fever again this year?? We have 6 F16's signed up so far!!! Great meeting you last year. The Blade IS a SWEEEEEEEEEEET boat!
So how many F16's are we looking at for Gulfport?
I count 10, if Tback can get a kithcen pass.
WOW ! 10 F16's crews at Gulfport invitational, with Belgian visitors ?
This is shaping up to be a really great event.
Have we made any progres on designating it the US F16 nationals for 2008 ?
Also, who are these ladies on the Taipan F16, doing some practising ?
![[Linked Image]](http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/134825-120120074.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://www.catsailor.com/bb_files/134825-120120075.jpg)
Wouter
I'll be at:
March 7- 9 - Performance MidWinters, Pensacola Beach
March 21-23 - SpringFever, Lake Hartwell, GA
Can't make F16 Invitational...Mom's 75th and someone didn't check with my sailing calendar! I might make it over to check out the action on Sunday <img src=
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Hmmm, I know people in their late 60's and early 70's who are still sailing cats. <img src=
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Dr Michael Chia at Changi just upgraded to a Viper (from the Taipan) and he is 76 from what I last heard. And he is one of the most active sailors at the club!
I'd like to thank all of you for your comments and advice.
Looks like I was presumptious in thinking that I might be the first F-16 owner in Canada, perhaps I should have chosen Canuck004 as my name.
I think I am 99% there on this decision. It is just a matter of deciding where to sail it, (i.e. which club on Lake Ontario) and when to place the order - looks like I will be travelling for much of June/July, so an Aug 1 delivery date looks about right.
The enthusiasm and spirit on this forum is infectious. It is really hard to find F-16 owners (not visiting trolls) who have anything negative to say about these boats. Reading past threads is great marketing for the class and a terrific resource for anyone considering buying an F-16.
It is funny then, as a newcomer, that I feel a sense a degree of insecurity among some F-16 owners here on this forum. It is as though you fear that somehow the class could fail to reach critical mass despite all its unique and very positive attributes. Am I missing something here? Is this fear typical among owners of emerging boat classes? As an outsider my reaction is that time is on your (soon to be our)side. The F-16 seems like a clearly superior product that fills a specific need in the market(as do the F-18 and the A-class). It should continue to build momentum. Like everything, it may just take longer than it
should
.
If there is any insecurity (I don't think there is) it may be due to the fact that Hobie and Nacra do not produce an F16 boat...yet.
People who are new to cat racing usually want a big brand name product to feel secure in their purchase. And the F18 class has been around for 10 years (or more) so there is some competition for new customers between the F16 and F18 class. Hobie and Nacra both produce F18's, and are they ever heavy!