If you are an F18 Fleet Measurer you will want to take a look at the new drawings they are considerably more helpful than the old set.
Thanks for that Dave,
I thought this was interesting:
(b) The cross section of each centreboard/daggerboard shall be symmetrical about its fore and aft centre line.
so that means we can have curved boards as long as we use symmetrical shapes like nacra's f20.
I also note we are allowed to use dyform diamonds, does anyone actually use them?
It doesn't look like dyform is permitted to me. What are you seeing that indicates dyform diamonds are allowed?
F.6 STANDING RIGGING
F.6.1 MATERIALS
(a) The standing rigging shall be of stainless steel.
(b) Fittings may be made from or include carbon fibre in their construction.
20 International Formula 18 Class Rules 2010
F.6.2 CONSTRUCTION
(a) MANDATORY
(1) A forestay and bridles of 1 x19 or 1 x 7 stranded wire of minimum
diameter of 3mm.
(2) Shrouds of 1 x 19 or 1 x 7 stranded wire of minimum diameter of
3mm.
(3) Trapeze wires of stranded wire and minimum diameter of 2.5mm.
(4) Dyform® or similar construction is prohibited.
(b) OPTIONAL
(1) A pair of diamond wires
C.5 PORTABLE EQUIPMENT
C.5.1 FOR USE
(b) OPTIONAL
(3) Electronic devices that provide timing, heading, and heading
memory but which do not transmit or receive data.
Does a GPS fall under this category?
I guess this rules out Velocitek and similar devices? (At least while racing anyway).
Was thinking of getting one so that would be to bad.
Yes a GPS receives data the same way the velocitek device does so it's out, please notice item (4) in the same section that allows an NOR to permit the devices for long distance races.
4) When required by the Notice of Race for long distance courses,
organisers may require further equipment, such as VHF, mobile
phone, GPS or tracking devices, Emergency Positioning Indicating
radio beacons (EPIRB) devices, knife, mirror, whistle, flares,
flashlights, first aid set.
(b) OPTIONAL
(1) A pair of diamond wires
Diamond wires are not compulsory, and there fore not part of the standing rigging. is that not fair?
But if they are on the mast wouldn't they then be considered standing rigging?
rigging, the wires, ropes, and chains employed to support and operate the masts, yards, booms, and sails of a vessel. Standing rigging is semipermanent, consisting mainly of mast supports, the fore-and-aft stays, and the stays running from the masthead to each side of the vessel. Running rigging includes the ropes, blocks, and other apparatus needed to brace the yards, make or take in sails, and hoist cargo
Most definitions seem to say standing rigging is stays and shrouds.
The Australian slang dictionary says standing rigging = time wasting...
I've sent this question along with several others to the World Council for clarification. Things like this need to be crystal clear.
Additionally since diamond wires are specifically referenced in the standing rigging section of the rules I would interpret the intent of the rule to say if diamonds are on the boat they are considered standing rigging and therefore not permitted to be Dyform. My 2 cents.
good work Dave!
I think if they wanted to ban dyform then they need a (2) Dyform® or similar construction is prohibited. in the diamond wire section. Because it is outside the mandatory section.
I agree, wiggle room always leads to issues down the road.
Does a GPS actually recieve a signal telling the unit where it is? I thought it worked kinda like a VOR and triangulated its self off of radians from a whole mess of satellites.
Grey area I know, but....
Global Positioning System satellites transmit signals to equipment on the ground. GPS receivers passively receive satellite signals; they do not transmit. GPS receivers require an unobstructed view of the sky, so they are used only outdoors and they often do not perform well within forested areas or near tall buildings. GPS operations depend on a very accurate time reference, which is provided by atomic clocks at the U.S. Naval Observatory. Each GPS satellite has atomic clocks on board.
There you go Karl, you learn something every day!
Does a GPS actually recieve a signal telling the unit where it is? I thought it worked kinda like a VOR and triangulated its self off of radians from a whole mess of satellites.
Grey area I know, but....
It receives data and uses it, that alone makes it pretty clear to me. You just have to ask yourself does the device work without the
data
it receives?
The rules also call the GPS out as something that 'could be' allowed on distance races if it was so stated in the NOR. Again, this one isn't grey.
But a sextant would be ok right? <img src="<>/grin.gif" alt="grin" title="grin" height="15" width="15" />
on the subject of sending and receiving data it seems as though a VHF is out for racing. I did not think about it until the attachment regarding long distance races equipment when it spelled that device out.
After that I realized that per David's definition. If it did not receive data would it work. I think the answer is no.
Could we also include this in some of the questions to F18 Org Authority?
Later,
Dan
I just had a chat with the International Class President.
The intent of the 2010 rules was to get them into into SCR format and not to change any of the rules contained within.
Dyform is still out, the idea to try and control costs. Yes I know this the line in the sand and can be debated.
You can change rig tension while NOT racing. I have to send a request through the ISAF process to get the wording made more precise.
VHF for buoy racing is still out, reason being outside assistance could be had and cannot be regulated, same goes for iphones and other similar devices.
1 steering compass is required, this rule is unchanged.
1 tow line 15m long 6mm diameter is required, this rule is unchanged. I still don't know if the main sheet or other similar sheet can double as tow line, that answer is still pending. Can someone tell me if this is something that is checked at Worlds, has anyone ever been tossed for not having a tow line?
At the Worlds in France they were going to toss you for any rule that you did not meet. There was a run on paddles and compasses at all the sailing related stores, and they ran critically low on lead weights at the dive store. At that time they were able to use the main halyard as a tow line providing it was 5mm. I do not think that is allowed anymore, as they were going to discuss that at the follow up meeting. I would place money that the tow line is needed this year. I remember it was required to be 5mm then. It is 6mm now, but still the same 15 meters. There were teams tossed that came in 1 kg light after racing all day. I would not tempt them.
Later,
Dan
Does a GPS actually recieve a signal telling the unit where it is? I thought it worked kinda like a VOR and triangulated its self off of radians from a whole mess of satellites.
Grey area I know, but....
Get (your viper lovin butt) back to the F16 forum~!
just kiddin, but you had it comin since you kicked me out of the hobie forum!
Only for night races
If we are going to argue semantics.
Doesn't a Compass recieve a magnetic signal? So if a compass recieves a signal and is required no-one can legally race.
Magnetism is not a
signal.
It is a closed dipole of electric current.
signal.
It is a closed dipole of electric current.
Radio signals are also electro magnetic. They both transmit data (which is what the rule says).
When I read the rule, I assumed it allowed GPS too. Really, a GPS is just a very accurate timing device. The satellites are just guiding beacons like stars. Furthermore the next rule says that a GPS may even be required without says that it is an exception. Which suggests that they are not against the rules.
This is one rule that I object to because it outlaws a device that can be used for safety and promotional purposes. The rule should at least allow a GPS, EPIRB, and VHF radio so that you can be rescued in the case of an emergency. GPS's that log information for future playback can be very useful for coaching and showing people what happened at an event that they didn't attend (think about what they did with the America's Cup).
I don't think it saves much either. The RRS already outlaw outside assistance. So, no one is getting an advantage. A GPS or VHF radio are far from cost prohibitive. Plus, for a lot of $$, it is possible to make an electronic device that measures speed and position with inertial guidance technology that does not receive or transmit anything.
I guess it will have to be settled in the room.
I agree with F18 VB, the GPS technology costs about the same as a digital compass anyway. I know the spirit of the rules is to keep costs down, but in this case i do believe the technology over the last 10 year years has reduced in cost to a point where it is now not an issue.
The other rule I have issue with is the ban on synthetic trapeze lines. It was fair enough when stainless wire was a fraction of the price of dyneema, but now in many areas the dyneema is actually cheaper. By the time you don't have to pay some one to swage up a set of lines it is now significantly cheaper to use synthetic.
How do we get these rules updated to reflect what is actually going on in the real world?
Easy, simply write to the class (in French) and request them to be reasonable.... Good luck!
With the rules as they are you cant sail with a €300 GPS but are allowed to have a RIB with paid coaches, etc.
If they really want to keep a level playing field it might be an idea to limit the amount spent on professional coaching as well.
A representative of the german class association told me the other day that the reason to ban signal receiving items is to avoid help from third parties. Imagine somebody on a hill or tower close to the regatta aera who can overlook the whole field, can watch out for wind changes, etc, ...
Isn't outside assistance already illegal under the RRS?
Does having two rules against it help make the protest easier?
Macca,
Bit confused here; why would anyone want to write to the international F18 class in French when the official langiage of the class us English?