35th America's Cup

Cammas was SMOKING across that finish line! I'm surprised Ainsle kept it within a minute at the end, certainly looked slower than that.

SWE and NZL, this ought to be interesting!

Mike

Wow, Artemis just completely screwed themselves. Over early at the start after clearly winning it. NZL was completely screwed until SWE gave it away. Wow...

Mike

Wow, what an awesome race. NZL nearly crossed SWE at the weather mark, but ducked and split. Unbelievable pass on the run, followed by a split at the leeward gate, this is anyone's race to lose!

Mike

Basically tied going into the final run, this is NUTS!!!!!

Mike

LOTS of drama at the last gate. SWE smoked in on STBD, looked like they had it won, but got penalized for a P/S incident at the mark! NZL wins it!

I don't know if redress is an option, it certainly looked clean. Burling is saying that they needed more room, and had to make a crash gybe at 40 knots.

NZL really had no chance to win, coming in on PORT, had to gybe to get around for the reaching leg to finish. SWE just needed to go wide and give NZL room.

Mike

Other than the start, I missed the last race. Dalton had an awesome start (made it look too easy), but how did he beat Cammas by over two and a half minutes???

Mike

No, coming into the final rounding mark NZ was on starboard tack, and SWE was on port. They were nearly even but NZ needed to gybe to round the mark.

It wasn't a matter of enough room - simply a starboard/port situation. Apparently, the umpires felt that if NZ had not crash-gybed (or rounded up), she would have hit SWE.

I thought that SWE needed to go a bit further before their last gybe, so they'd have room to take NZ's transom at the mark and roll NZ with speed. They didn't, and lost the protest.

Dean Barker (JP) had a great start at the windward end and simply blew by FR. Cammas didn't even try to shut Barker out. JP finished so far ahead by flying for 97.5% of the race. Cammas (FR) splashed a lot.

Here's the whole downwind gate sequence, looks to me like ETNZ tried to hunt Artemis but when they realized they where clear ahead they tried the protest.

Wow, I really typed that wrong. Thanks for correcting that, Eric.

But, I still say SWE had it won, even on port. All they had to do was go wide and win. I don't think NZL could have gybed fast enough around that mark to get ahead for the final reach leg.

Besides, looking at those photos, could NZL really have continued to go past the layline to the mark to attack SWE at that point? I know they use different rules than the standard RRS. Under standard RRS, going beyond that layline would have been sailing above proper course, as they were outside the zone.

Mike

it did look like a weak attempt at hunting, but it appears the ref gave it to them?

Not sure if they have a formal protest room or not?

Anyway, that was the best race yet with lots of speed and multiple lead changes.

The race after that was almost like watching the 12 meter cup races... Except at 30 knots <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Suprised Cammas just followed Barker around the racecourse...

The point made earlier (I only saw the TV version) might have merit: force the other team into maneuvers and maybe their hydro pressure will run out....

And I do think the pedal power is the way to go.... Now let's see if their foil designs and overall boathandling can keep pace...

The judges just admitted they dorked up the call and Artemis should not have been penalized. There's no recourse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LqC65h-hI5k

it's important for them to admit this because teams may use or not use the outcome in the future.

Mike,

I've skimmed the rules and it looks like, had NZL been able to force Artemis to avoid, they could have ignored the gate and done so. However, the boundary zone was really close to that gate and it would have come into play very very quickly and I'm not even sure Artemis would have had time for two gybes without breaching the boundary.

I'm convinced that this three boat length circle is FAR too small for these boats. They enter and are out of that zone in about 3 seconds during normal roundings. There's no way any decisions and relevant maneuvers are going to be made in that zone like we're accustomed to. If that zone were twice as large (6 boat lengths), now the actual rounding rules might come into play - or the rules need to be different somehow...Regardless, there is a screwy rule thing in the AC rule 18 and the course descriptions where that looks like that rounding at the bottom just before the finish would still considered a gate and not a single mark to be rounded even though they need to turn left to get to the finish. They have a course option for the finish to follow a single mark in the middle of the course but the finish after those two marks still call them a gate and there are specific rule differences between marks and gates.

https://docs.google.com/a/acracemgt... b3RpY2Vib2FyZHxneDo3MWQ1ZjgxYThhNjY2NDRh

All the mark/gate stuff is all mute, though - because, as you said, this was a simple port starboard situation. I think NZ couldn't make up their mind to try and push Artemis but when they realized they couldn't get there, they were unprepared for the gybe and basically pulled off a bit of a soccer style flop and got the penalty call. It's really hard to tell from the moving helicopter footage whether or not NZL could actually get to Artemis or not. I saw a brief angle from Artemis' tail camera that was focused on NZ and it really didn't look like NZ could get there to force Artemis off their spot.

one thing for sure, though, Artemis could have rounded even wider and saved themselves from the call. They still needed to go through the gate (see my notes above) but they could have dropped even lower and made that much less close.

I was watching the Virtual Eye overhead view at the time and all I could really tell was that the crossing was very close. I didn't even see the penalty indicator until the boats were halfway down the reach leg. It's a pity that the umpires made what they now consider to be a bad call, and that there's no redress for Artemis.

It was my understanding that mark 6 is a rounding mark, not a gate, but I'll have to look into that.

Richard Gladwell sums it up nicely . . .

Umpires admit error in controversial win for Kiwis

Don't know if any of you saw it but NZ hit 46 knots in the pre-start. That's . . . like . . . 53 mph for us non metric rednecks.
<img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

I know that NO ONE is happy about this (except maybe NZL). TV or otherwise, I think it's inexcusable not to be able to correct such an error. Yes, this was close, but suppose the umpires mess up something even more obvious? May not seem possible, but we're all human.

This reminds me of the MLB umpire that screwed a pitcher out of a no-hitter a few years ago. He knew he blew the call, but no one could fix Humpty Dumpty at the time. I believe that the replay rules have fixed that, and rightly so.

No one (including umpires) wants their career to end over a mistake (which should be fixable).

Mike

PS/EDIT: I do fully agree that they should be using a zone of at least four lengths. Wouldn't work for us mere mortals, but they're doing everything with GPS, so it wouldn't be a problem for the boats or umps.

Brucat, it's different because the penalties are being assessed live on the water during racing. I know you know this following bit but to refresh, there's a difference in how match racers treat penalties. The match racing boats do not exonerate themselves in the case of an infraction. They only do so after a penalty is assessed by the judges/computers so the judges carry a lot more responsibility. While this was a clear case of a penalty right before an obvious outcome at the finish, imagine if the debatable penalty had occurred on the first downwind gate rounding? How would you correct a judging error at the end of that race? You would have no way to know how exactly that penalty affected the outcome. I don't think it's possible to universally be able to revisit a judging error when the calls are being made live unless you can stop the action while it's revisited.

Today's Live Racing: Qualifiers Round 1

12:00 Bermuda
NZL vs SWE

12:30 Bermuda
FRA vs USA

13:00 Bermuda
SWE vs GBR

First race is a rematch of yesterdays debacle. Would be sweet revenge for a SWE victory.

Sir Ben badly needs a win today.

I think this also drags in that other discussion about using the rules to your advantage as part of the winning strategy..

Like the pre-start hooking on several races, the hunting (upwind and downwind) on that particular race with NZL and SWE

first impression was that NZL threw that protest up just to see if it would stick. And when it actually did stick, I was taken aback a bit.

I only saw the TV episode, but with closing speeds at that last leeward turning mark approaching 40-50 knots it would be really hard for that tactician (or the on-water umpire) to be able to say that it didn't look like NZL would have to alter course...

It even looked like NZL was hunting right before they executed that horrible gybe, and it almost looked like SWE did drive around it.

But that was (in my opinion) the most exciting of the races so far. I'm off to check the Youtube replay....

I don't think I saw the protest light pushed from NZ and it was an afterthought when Burling completely blundered the jibe. Burling rambled on in the interview, and completely dance around the question about

hitting the button

. Sounded and looked like a deer in the headlights. Nathan's interview addressed his strategy, and intended execution. I call BS on NZ and Burling. He would have been better off just saying he was lucky to get the point and then STFU.

Post Race Interview

+1

Don't try to sell something that's already sold

Agreed about the interviews. As I posted in the other thread, they have a long way to go to earn my respect as sportsmen. Ainsle didn't once mention concern for the health of the guys he nearly killed. Burling basically admitted to calling for an umpire call out of desperation, and had the gall to say that in all pro sports, you play to the whistle. Yikes...

Jake, I hear you about needing final decisions in a match race, but this is the America's Cup. They should be able to resolve this in a jury afterwards, and let that be the final call. They could award/strip points, call for a re-sail, etc. Just my opinion, of course...

Anyway, today is a new day, and I'm rooting for Nathan!!!

Mike

Focking commercials. Really NBC???

I'm watching on the phone app for the first time today. Fewer ads than I'd expected so far, but I think I missed something near the end. Was SWE given a penalty after the last weather gate?

Very close race until they blew it in the approach to that last weather gate.

Mike

BT Sport is not running ads during the race. I'm viewing multiple feeds simultaneously. The time away during commercials with NBCSN there is good and valuable content on BT Sport.

Cammas just embarrassed himself twice. Totally hosed in the pre-start, then an unforced error, sailing out of bounds on the first run. Wow...

Mike

Someone remind me why Oracle is sailing in the challenger series again?
IMHO they have no business being there.

Basically, because they can. Also, there is no Defender series (no domestic challengers) as there were many years ago.

Mike