Alter Cup Notice from USS

lots of people (myself included) were against BYOB

But someone had to try it just to prove yea or nay, right?

There seem to be quite a lot of potentially good ideas listed by a variety of folk, and the novice would think an amalgam of them might turn out something grand.

Winning the Alter Cup means what?

Do they get to go on to something bigger?
Do they win some financial support for an Olympic or other campaign?
Does it give them

street cred

when talking to private sponsors?
Do they get a free spot in the next iteration of the event?
Is this award the Pinnacle of the Sport?

On the more nuts and bolts of the AC organizing, do the host sites (Yacht Clubs) bid on hosting the event? Does that bid include pro-forma?

Mike H - why would the spring be the best season for the Alter Cup? Isn't that the beginning of sailing season in most of the US (except southern, where it's near the end)?

Personally, I like the alternating Spin/Non-spin idea. It gives me two years to save up for the Cup (unless I sail both classes).

And if this Alter Cup is a service provided to the USS members, how much of my dues is contributed toward it? If another $10 per year was all it took to make the Alter Cup a cheap/free event for those top 10 qualifiers it would make a bit more sense to me (in terms of

what does USS do for my membership dollar?

), even knowing I'd probably never qualify myself.

Maybe it's my naieve

trickle down

theory, but if the Alter Cup (1) was an important award in a sailor's resume and (2) it wasn't financially prohibitive to seek this award, then the top guns would be out there sailing hard for it by attending regattas and feeder-events that I may actually be participating in. This might allow me to improve my skills a little more each of the few times I'm out...?

Personally, I can't say enough about how helpful and approachable most of the rock stars in the multihull universe are. Sure, they shouldn't tell me ALL of the secrets of speed (we all know it's TOTW anyway), but they're usually the first to help me troubleshoot a tactical situation, understand boat settings, etc.

To see them rewarded by a quality and affordable event like Alter Cup seems a worthy use of my membership dollar

Jay - boat builders want their product out in the Spring, and most competitors are tied up in their own nationals in the Fall. That was the reason the Alter Cup was scheduled in the Spring in the past.

There really was a lot of discussion about having an event this year and it was decided to be worthwhile. Once that was determined, it was a matter of deciding how to carry it out. There was no way to plug in provided boats with all the variables/conditions/timing so the only option was BYOB. It's a reasonable conclusion arrived in a reasonable manner given the circumstances.

Interesting point. That it could theoretically benefit southern sailors who have sailed all winter is all the better <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> But I guess it goes back to where the critical mass of likely participants are...

This is a spirited discussion that hopefully leads to a positive outcome and a bright future for the Alter Cup. Please though, be carefull not to trivialize the accomplishment of this year's champion. Sara and Kenny deserve the recognition of their accomplishment!

ABSOLUTELY! Karl, you're right and I apologize profusely for giving the impression that their accomplishment was anything less than remarkable.

+1, and I'd like to add how pleasing it was to see the point spread between the top 5 teams. That made it worth watching. Runaway events can be somewhat less significant (probably moreso to the competitors themselves, but...)

I would not trivialize their accomplishment. Both awesome sailors. Remarkable performance at the Alter Cup. Congrats to them. I've sailed against them both and have seen what they are capable of.

A bigger crowd would have just resulted in a bigger butt-whoopin', domination.

+1000

OK, this is a much better tone, and some interesting ideas.

To Jake's point, 50% of the respondents said they wouldn't attend an Alter Cup regardless of any changes that were made. I don't really know what to do with that; I don't think you throw away their feedback, because as others have mentioned, this is viewed as a benefit to all of our members, and they would like to have a say in what they want to see done.

Running it every two years has been brought up a few times, and could help offset the costs. However, it's been noted by US Sailing and from the survey responses that 10 boats on the water is not a significant event. So, if we tried to get 20 provided boats every two years, the dollars come out to be the same.

If we ran qualifiers every year, take the 20 teams from there only (10 per year from qualifiers, no petitions or invitations), that could make the qualifiers relevant once again. Of course, we'd need to come up with a plan to make people want to attend, or we'll go back to where we've just come from.

If we use the qualifiers as fundraisers, we might be able to make this work. $20,000 sounds like a lot until you break it down. Here's a random sampling:

$1,000 each times 20 provided boats = $20,000
$20,000 needed every 2 years = $10,000 per year
$10,000 per year to be raised at 10 qualifier events = $1,000 per qualifier event

That's it. We need $1,000 from each area, each year.

That's really not hard to do; it's a $50 donation per person for a 10-boat qualifier.

So, what realistic chance do we have of getting 10 area qualifiers run every year with at least 10 boats, with an entry fee of $200 per boat ($100 for the regatta, $100 towards the finals)? Yes, all other requirements will be unchanged (pay for your membership now and it won't be related to attending the event).

There are other ways to get there. We could have clinics, where we charge $50 per person to attend, all proceeds go to providing boats for the finals.

The more boats at the qualifier, the less money would need to be raised per person. We could augment with raffles, sail-a-thons, bake sales, etc. We all buy stuff (Girl Scout cookies, etc.) or donate towards walk-a-thons, etc. at the office, we could raise money that way.

Obviously, we have some areas without qualifiers, and would need to address that. Also, if the costs are more than $1,000 per boat, all of the pricing goes up; we'd just need to get more boats to the qualifiers.

Thoughts?

Mike

$200 for a weekend Portsmouth regatta is a big chunk of change for a lot of folks. Add to that the required US Sailing membership requirement (which many people purchase just to participate in this event) and your $200 regatta just became a $300 regatta. If travel is involved for out of towners, it would end up being a weekend costing upwards of $700 once hotels, food, and fuel is added in. I'm not sure your going to get the numbers you require for portsmouth event at that price.

(The following is just me thinking out loud.....)
How about implementing a $10 per boat surcharge to all regatta entries in their respective areas with the proceeds going to funding the Alter Cup? That's less than the cost of a round at the bar after racing!

how many US Sailing members are multihull sailors?

How many multihull sailors would join (again) if they knew the money offset the Alter Cup costs?

$200 per qualifier sounds a little steep for those who'd like to sail one, but have little chance of making the cut. Maybe $200 if it's a 3-4 day event... How does that stack up against the entry fees of other (class, region, etc) events?

And I'd second Karl's suggestion of a surcharge at local regattas (under certain circumstances) as long as it was guaranteed the money would go directly to Alter Cup and not

administrative expenses

or whatnot..

Sorry, my point really should have been clearer. $1,000 per area per year is what is needed, there are a million ways to raise that cash.

Mike

You must either (1) drink very cheap beer, or (2) don't have that many friends... or both? <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Malt liquor for my krew

Are you saying +$10 per boat at qualifiers or ALL regattas. If it's all regattas that's nuts. Everyone will pay more money and nothing will be gained for multihulls. Mark my words on that.

Please explain a bit more...? If we're dealing hypothetically that it isn't just graft, I'd think spreading out the costs to a larger base makes sense.

But the reality is probably true. How would USS keep track of regattas and their potential revenue?

Firstly why should every regatta attendee pay extra for a race they most likely, won't do.Kind of like socialism.Screw that.
Secondly, From this threads info it seems the money that is there gets split up to make it less effective already.But who's to know for sure, nobody will come right out and say how it works.
Thirdly, when have you ever seen money arbitrarily charged for a service that has worked fine before the charge, actually work.
I'd say raise the USS dues before jacking up regatta fees. At least then the people who want it are paying for it.

well, I can agree with the USS dues concept. As I said, knowing where the money is going makes me more likely to contribute.

Heck, I kept a membership even with no boat (lapsed this year because I wasn't paying attention). I'm such a Kool-aid drinker that I didn't even expect anything for that fee except maybe a course sticker and support for the Alter Cup...

So you won't toss in another $5 entry fee so the RC can buy a bottle of rum for the winner?

I'm not a socialist kind of guy, but I see this as more of a support the fleet kind of thing. Just wish the Alter Cup

meant

something like it used to.

I don't think rum would be what USS would spend the money on . More like

office fees

meaning general fund kinda stuff. Just my opinion, but that's the way it usually goes and no I'm definitely not willing to pay more for that.
In the past I've had rum arrangements that never worked out. You know who you are.

I agree that while some

administrative fees

probably need to be part of every budget, it shouldn't be the bulk of any potential revenue

+1. I agree with Dave on all his points. I used to love the Alter Cup. It was a real honor to just qualify and be there with the best sailors and I thought the format was great fun and unique.

Unfortunately my distaste for US Sailing currently exceeds my desire to fork out extra money for their events. That is just how it is. This is an association that will need to work harder to gain the trust and loyalty of the multihull community.

Hmmm, it really should tell you something about US Sailing. He is not alone in that thinking. Whether you think it is justified or not you should not ignore the fact that sentiment is quite wide spread currently indicating something is wrong.

I'm curious about something since my experiences with US Sailing are not so recent any more...
Back about seven years ago US Sailing's designated multihull coach told me that he had never sailed a cat and did not really have much interest in the class. Is that still the case? Because you can't expect much in terms of youth development when your national organization shows that much lack of interest.

Maybe it is not just bad attitude towards multihulls? Based on our [lack of] success in London are there other underlying issues within US Sailing that need to be addressed?

Regardless, it is a shame that the turnout was this low this year. Maybe the trophy should be retired.

Olli

$5 used to buy rum for the winner is quite a but different than paying $10 for a regatta that many of us do not care about.

Well, we WERE making progress in this thread...

Insert dead horse here. Whoops, too late.

What US Sailing wants are workable solutions, not a list of complaints and requests for special treatment.

Keelboats are out of the Olympics. They still join and attend their championships. You're not as special as you want us to think.

Mike

You are sounding like someone from US Sailing. I'm getting that old fuzzy warm feeling all over...

Unless I'm mistaken, everyone that went to London had to qualify by winning trials. So, they were the best of the USA. Again, not to kill your special feelings, but the USA is just one country represented at the Olympics. There are only three medal colors, and many, many teams. Of course, all of this will be reviewed and heads will roll. Feeling special isn't limited to cat sailors; every red blooded American demands gold across the board at every Olympics. But, their results at the Olympics were the fault of the coaches... How???

Just so I'm up to speed, let me see if I at least have the math worked out.

No one wants to join US Sailing unless they're going to the Alter Cup finals. The Alter Cup finals (old format) only allowed 20 teams. The boats for a 10-boat event (old format) currently cost $10,000 to $20,000. So, for $2,000 in dues ($50 MPP membership times 40 sailors), we demand a fully funded, provided boats Alter Cup, or we're going to ask for it to be retired or

returned

to

us.

I don't have to talk to anyone at US Sailing to realize what a complete joke this is.

Mike

I don't understand why you think 20 teams is not enough? At every Alter Cup I've been to, there were under 10 teams that really stood out from the rest of the fleet as the contenders.
This is supposed to be championship representing the top sailors from the US multihull community. 20 teams is more than plenty. Quantity \= quality.

I think your problem is that no one wants to join US Sailing unless... well no one wants to join US Sailing I suppose until people get enough in return of what they deem to be worth the expense. For everyone that is going to be different.

For me personally I would pay a much larger membership fee to a national organization that represents multihull sailing, has a development program, and a great championship.

Not only does US Sailing offer none of those for me, my personal experiences dealing with them as a multihull sailor (Miami OCR, Olympic trials and the World Sailing games) has been nothing but a complete disappointment.

But hey, I know the sailors aren't important. You just want them to join.

It's not just me, or just US Sailing. Sailors in the survey overwhelmingly indicated that 20 boats on the water were the minimum acceptable for a relevant championship.

There is a whole new leadership team at US Sailing. Again, make a workable proposal to solve any issues that you see and we will try to work with them. Just listing a bunch of old complaints and demands will not return the desired outcome.

I had a director tell me about another place he had previously worked. He stated that in employees that went to management with problems and no proposed solutions were fired. US Sailing doesn't operate that way, and it is a bit extreme; but certainly has some merit. Proposing an idea that isn't adopted, then sulking and complaining for years afterwards has never been accepted anywhere I've worked, either.

Mike

This is not workplace. I don't really give rat's a$$ about US Sailing at this point and I know I'm not alone. So your attitude towards the sailors is that - ok, so you got screwed in the past. Get over it and come help US Sailing to improve. Yeah good luck with that.

The point of my post(s) was that each sailor currently not willing to join are not getting their money's worth for whatever reason(s). And whether you think those reasons are valid or not makes no difference. Otherwise they would join. It's that simple. Like it or not you will need to address the majority of sailor complaints and concerns in order to make progress.

I gave you my 'demands'; development program (for multihull sailors) and a great championship. A complete lack of attention to cat sailors and a bring your own (midget :)) boat event sure doesn't cut it - and I live five miles from this year's regatta site.

Now go find out Dave's concerns, and then the next guy's and the next guy's and so on. You will need to address much more than just their concerns about the Alter Cup as long as it requires a US Sailing membership. That was my point.

You are trying to fix the Alter Cup and ignoring the fact that it requires people to join US Sailing.