Alter Cup Update

Thanks, Jake. Keep us updated. Nasty weather all day Sunday four hours north of you.

Is that a typo for race one or were two teams awarded 1st?

Any theatrics with the moderate breeze and the I20's?

Thay had an A & B Group races.
Read Oly,s blog at sailinternational.net

Matt

http://www.ussailing.org/championships/adult/usmhc/alter06/results06.htm

Sounds like Oli is having problems depowering the rig. Its too bad that they can't really set the diamond tension to their specific crew weights. They could really be sailing a powered up rig and you'd really need to be quick on the downhaul to depower.

I spoke w/Oly yesterday,
Thay said you can't mess with anything on these boats not even main sheet lenght(which I guess is very long).

yeah the factory mainsheet length is way too long and it gets in the way.

Pos Team Repr R1A R1B R2A R2B Total
1 John Casey/Kenny Pierce N20 2 1 3
2 Robbie Daniel/Hunter Stunzi Olympic 1 3 4
3 Bob Curry/Bret Moss D-S 1 4 5
4 Olli Jason/Kelly Jason Pet'n 5 2 7
5 Greg Thomas/Jacques Bernier Defend 3 5 8
6 Jeff Newsome/Peter Ney J 5 3 8
7 John Tomko/Ian Billings F 2 7 9
8 Alex Shafer/Nigel Pitt N18 3 6 9
9 Matt Keenan/Ed Nolen C 8 2 10
10 Peter Nelson/Tom Hall H 9 1 10
11 Bill Gillespie/Marc Kennedy E 3 9 12
12 Kurt Korte/Brad Winquist K 7 5 12
13 Mike Krantz/David Lennard D-N 5 8 13
14 James Zellmer/Joe Valante A/B 6 7 13
15 George Pedrick/Gene Harris H20 7 6 13
16 Adam Borcherding/Vince Armato G 9 4 13
17 Susan Korzeniewski/Kevin Smith NAF18 4 10 14
18 Kirk Newkirk/Glenn Holmes Pet'n 10 4 14
19 Jim Sohn/Kristen King TheMightyHobie18 8 9 17
20 Michael Siau/Sam Ingham Youth 11 8 19

Scoring adjustments due to protests:
R1A RDG #1009/Shafer awarded 3 pts
R1A RDG #1001/Newsome awarded 5 pts
R2B RDG #1005/Newkirk awarded 4 pts

I think this might be closer to the current standings than what is shown on the Alter Cup Results.

Les,

Those are way off....where did you get those? Positions after today are becoming public very soon.

Jake

here's the results after today. It got quite breezy today with 20+ recorded at times. Catsailor won't allow a word document attachment but the results will be up on the US sailing site soon...Top five is Casey, Daniel, Pitt, Curry, Thomas. With one more race, the throw out comes into effect which will benefit Pitt the most at the moment.

I got off the Alter Cup web page, but I deducted 10 points from everyone in the last race because the points ranged from 11 to 19.

I'm pretty sure thats what happens when you get put in B fleet.

B-Fleet the second race on Day 1? You surely jest!

What is the format? Two groups (not fleets) racing to see who ends up in a "final", like OCR? Doesn't like any B Fleet that I've ever seen.

I think this current format is kind of cool:

We drew names for boats and fleets (A & B). For your first race your score is your finish, regardless of which fleet you were in. After the first race in each fleet, the top five from each are in A and bottom five in B. So you want to be in top 5 in your first race, because after that if you're in B you are scored your position plus 10.

After the first race the bottom three in A in each race get 'flushed' to B and the top three from B move up to A. So if you're in A you try to finish 7 or better in each race to avoid a visit to B fleet. Although you will get 2 throwouts after 10 races so one trip to B will not kill you.

Some people might not understand that they have 10 brand new I20's and 20 teams. So they have to split the fleet somehow. They use to do a round robin format where everyone somewhat randomly sailed the races. They switched to this format because often toward the end of the regatta top teams were unable to compete against eachother heads up. This solves the heads up issue but causes other issues. Such as if a team has a hang up on a take down and ends up getting an 8 in a race they also have to eat an 11 on top of that. They do allow 2 throwouts after 10 races but you can't be flushed to B fleet more than once or you won't be in the top 5. I think the new system is better than the old system but I still have reservations.

Mike Hill
Area K rep.

For more than you want to know reading, the original intent was per hyperlink below but as written below the math will not work out using 10 boats for 20 skippers. The R/C modified the EORS the best they could to make it so the top teams could race against each other as many as possible vs the random Matrix system.
http://www.catsailor.com/forums/sho... 5135&page=&view=&sb=5&o=

Pensacola News Journal reports multiple capsizes at Alter Cup. This appeared in the sports section today. Their website is www.pensacolanewsjournal.com. There may be more coverage tomorrow and later in the week.

Winds put sailors in drink
Capsizes mark Day 2 of Multihull Championships

Julie B. Connerley
News Journal correspondent

If Monday's weather was any indicator, competitors in the 20th anniversary of U.S. Sailing's Multihull Championship for the Hobie Alter Cup proved they had earned the right to be called the nation's top 20 teams.

During Race 3, five of the 10 Nacra 20s -- considered the fastest catamarans on the market -- capsized into the waters of Santa Rosa Sound.

Later, in Race 4, four boats capsized.

"Sunday's races held steady with 14 to 16 knots of wind," said race committee volunteer Dave Mimlitch, of Dallas, whose job was to check and record wind readings from the race committee boat every five minutes all day long.

"Monday began the same, but the winds built to 20 knots, then backed down to around 16 and later climbed again to 20 knots," he said. "We actually had some gusts to 24, but these boats are designed to handle those types of conditions."

For the more seasoned teams, the conditions were manageable.

The 2005 Nacra 20 national champions, John Casey and Kenny Pierce, held onto first place with seven points after Monday's four races staged out of the Pensacola Beach Yacht Club. Robbie Daniel and Hunter Stunzi held their second-place standing with nine points. Stunzi is U.S. Sailing's first Youth Multihull Champion, having won the event in 2001.

"The competition is very tight for the top three places," said John Williams, national chair for the event. "Nigel Pitt and Alex Shafer had a rough first day and finished mid-fleet. But they collected themselves and made an excellent recovery."

Pitt is a former Nacra 20 champion. He didn't go into the water Monday, but his hat did, just before a race start. He recovered it, and the team went on to win both its races and move into third place with 11 points.

For some teams, higher winds combined with boats never previously sailed tested the upper limit of their capabilities and explained the many capsizes. One team chose not to race; another chose not to fly the spinnaker during its assigned race.

Kurt Korte, 41, or Roscoe, Ill., and Brad Winquist, 42 of Pewaukee, Wis., capsized in their first race while leading the pack. They righted themselves and managed to finish fifth. In their second round, they took first. Their total points earned them a place in the "A" heat with the leaders.

"And we plan to stay there," Korte said.

Tom Turlington
NACRA F17 #12

Racing done for the day 3 pm cst.

Too much wind!!!!

Crazy wind... I posted yesterday but it didn't show up. Yesterday, mult bent booms (people landing on them, etc) a broken tiller crossbar and today many broken rudders. I am on one of the chase boats and got many pics- I will post them if I figure out how/when. Also videoed a pitchpole today... and one amazing recovery.

no footstraps/chicken lines are killin em! 😛

Of all the boats I've sailed, the Nacra 20 has to be one of the least forgiving. It'll beat the hell outta ya I tell you what.

No freaking way!

You have got to be kidding!!!

Scoring is going to look freaky tonight, but don't get excited - remember that because we knocked off early due to 25 knots, the A teams have one more race than the B teams. Assuming we get one more heat (6B), scores will make more sense. As per the SIs, if we don't do anymore racing for some bizarre reason, heat 6A will be abandoned and we go back to the point where everyone had the same number of races.

Re; the format. I've been doing this for a while now - the modified version of what Chris Stater brought to the committee a couple of years ago is lightyears better than the way we did things before. It may seem confusing and is difficult to explain, but as soon as you see it in action, it becomes much more clear. I love it. Thanks Chris.

Ps - JC got flushed today. That's the big news. Shafer is the new leader assuming we get a heat 6B completed tomorrow. Forecast is much cooler temps and 6 to 8 knots from the North.

Of all the cats I've sailed, the Inter 20 was the MOST forgiving in those conditions! If they were pitch-poling with those big, fat bows and two extra feet of length, what do you think would happen on a F18 or Hobie 16? Of course footstraps would have helped and maybe then had no capsizes.

Post deleted by PTP

Tad, are you freakin kiddin' me? There's no way the Nacra 20 is an unforgiving boat. So smooth, so much power, it's hard not to make the boat perform. Why is it so unforgiving?

Sincerely,
Your skipper

I'm talking about the way I feel when I get back to the beach when my skipper's beaten me over the head with the tiller extension for not setting the kite fast enough, or not being quick enough on the downhaul!

He's mean to me, and its all because of the boat!

Actually, I meant physically unforgiving. I'm beat after a day on the water. And I'm MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT.

(PS. I need a hug)

pics here.. maybe?

http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLa... mp;Ux=0&UV=966935585676_855501744305
Just click on the picture, you don't have to sign in
I will post more if it works and anyone gives a crap
but my connection is dropping a lot