There are too many choices out there!! I have recently decided to get back into sailing and racing after a long absence. Previous experience was phrf monohull keel boats but would like something more exciting such as mutihull racing. I need advice as to what cats I should consider as I want plenty of racing opportunities. Also, I prefer singlehanded sailing, am in shape and weigh about 220 lbs.
I guess I am thinking Hobie 16s because the one design class is strong but how about Nacra and Prindles? What's all this Formula stuff? How does Open racing work? Handicaps? I am lost. Please help. Thanks in advance.
I guess I am thinking Hobie 16s because the one design class is strong but how about Nacra and Prindles? What's all this Formula stuff? How does Open racing work? Handicaps? I am lost. Please help. Thanks in advance.
Racing singlehanded on the boats you mentioned is out.
Prepare to be barraged!
I sail a Blade: http://www.formula16.org/
Pete, thanks for the warning. I looked up the link for F16 you posted. Are there more F16s in US than reflected on web site or does it mean you would race mainly open class? Thanks.
Yes, but not many. It is a small but growing class. This is not an easy boat to master. IMO, you should only buy one if you are looking for a challenge! Otherwise, a Hobie Getaway is a good choice.
I'll try and find the Frapper link. It has a map of F16 locations. In the mean time, give th F16 forum a look. It's here on Catsailor. Just go to the main index.
Hey Pete, thanks again. Yeah I think it was the Frappr I looked at. In southeast it looked like a couple in Atlanta and 6 or seven in Florida.
Bill,
If you want to race singlehanded often then your only options are pretty much A-cat, F16, Hobie 17, hobie 14 and nacra 17.
Other boats like the FX-one are too rare the achieve fleet racing and will therefor always put you in the open class fleet.
It also is strongly dependent on where your sail. Each type is strong in anoher part of the USA.
If you want PLENTY of racing opportunities that are also enjoyable then you should really look at a modern singlehander. H14 and H17 are not able to keep up with modern mixed racing fleets. The others will be derigged and at the bar drinking beer when you cross the finish line. Only the A-cat, F16's and Nacra 17's are capable to stay with the mixed fleets in the way of performance. All these are pretty much formula based. Nacra 17 only in name but none of these designs will remain exactly the same over any long period of time. That is what formula means.
Formula denotes a make-up of class rules that don't intend to make all boats identical but only to make all possible designs equal in performance. So in a formula fleet you can encounter different boats made by different builders that are all the same in overall performance. They still race first-in-wins. Formula classes are totally replacing the old one-design classes of the past. The biggest fleets with the best sailors are currently all formula fleets. This does include the olympic Tornado class as well.
I hope this clearifies things for now.
Wouter
Yeah Pete, F16 looks like a hell of a machine. Maybe I should think more about using a crew!
This feb 2006 there will be about 50 F16's in the USA. Most of them in the south-east of the USA. Internationally we are passed 150.
The class was invented 5 years ago, so indeed the F16's are a small but growing class. In the south-east of the US the F16 boats make class regulary at events. This fleet is actually quite active considering its current small size.
About halve the racing is open class, but that isn't any different with respect to any other make of singlehander. Probably the A-cat class makes class most often over the whole USA but even they often race open class. There is simply not a singlehanded class anymore that makes class often and everywhere. The catamaran scene is changing.
Wouter
Wouter,
Thanks man. That was really what I was looking for. Just to make sure, you are saying that F16 or Nacra17 would compete in the same fleets under a formula rule? Or would the Nacra 17 be put with Hobie 17s. How about crew weight/number regulations? Even though it might not be prudent,competitive or logisically possible to race a f16 singlehanded would it be allowed? Thanks.
F16's are raced both singlehandedly and doublehandedly. Nearly always an F16 fleet is a mix of both. The class was developped to do both with about the same performance.
Tikipete is a singlehanded F16 sailor.
I mostly raced the F16 doublehanded in the past, but I do sail it often singlehanded. Over the last year I race it singlehandedly increasingly more.
Wouter
Bill,
Not really. Think of formula racing as the way nascar or F1 automobiel racing is set up. All boats must satisfy the limits set in the class rule set otherwise they can't race in the class. But the rule set does still allow significant freedom in how a F16 design is made or fitted out. Currently the nacra 17 does not satisfy all the F16 class rules.
But it must be said that the nacra 17 is pretty close in performance to the F16's so it could directly race F16's on that aspect alone. But officially it can't. Most F16 sailors will welcome nacra 17 sailors however. The more souls the more fun. Obvious expection will be of course any nationals or similar events of equal importance.
In the US it all comes down to who makes class and who doesn't. Were I sail we don't do seperate classes very often and all classes start and finish together. In the US, class is however important. In my experience the nacra 17 doesn't make class at events outside of the great lakes region. Hobie 17 however is more spread out and does make class at events in more spacially seperated locations. F16's make class often in south-eastern USA, in other area's of the US the F16's are still building up minimum class size in order to make class. But that is progressing quite satisfactory. California is probably the next area to see F16's make class more often. There is talk of a F16 fleet forming in southern USA. Forida sees F16 make class often.
There are none. Only regulation is that you need to have a righting setup that allows you to right the boat unaided. At 220lbs you don't need anything other then a righting line. I'm 185 lbs and can right my F16 singlehanded with a righting line in all conditions.
Sailing a F16 singlehanded is actually encouraged in the class. In the past too many sailors thought of the F16 as mostly a doublehanded boat. It will actually do both equally well. The basic F16 design was designed to be safely sailed singlehandedly as well as doublehandedly, so there should not be any reason not to do so.
Being only 107 kg (236 lbs) fully rigged and ready to sail makes it is even logistically easy to singlehanded transport the F16.
But Bill, it is wise to first decide on what you really want. It is easy to spend alot of money on these modern boats relative to just buying a second hand H17 for example. I think the pleasure in sailing these modern boats is well worth the money, despite the fact that I'm not a particular well-off in the bucks department. But this is something each sailor must decide for himself.
It may well be wise to start cheap, give sailing a good try and only when you lust for more after a while by a modern rocket
I hope this helps,
Wouter
Wouter,
Thank you greatly for the time you have taken to help with my questions. You have just answered my next question on money/F16vs.H17. I looked around a little just now. Not too many F16s on the used market and I am not gonna buy new so the H17 might be the ticket since I have seen several for sale. What can you tell me about the H17? Thanks.
F16 is the solution <img src=
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Hey Scoob,
You have a F16 for sale perhaps?
Scoob, Never mind I just relized you are in UK. Thanks.
Bill,
Wouter will have nothing good to say about the Hobie 17 - so I will. They aren't the fastest boat around the cans - especially downwind, where they are horribly underpowered. Upwind in 15+ kts, though, they are a hoot! The wings give you the extra leverage to hold the boat down and power past almost everything. I've beaten A-cats and I-20's to the weather mark (that's about as long as it lasts, though).
There is a fairly active H-17 group in your area. However, you are a bit large for the H-17. Optimum racing crew weight is 160 - 180 lbs.
The H-16 is another active class in your area, but again, you're a bit large unless you have a 65 - 80 lb crew (Optimum racing crew weight is 285 - 300 lbs).
The H-14 is sparsely raced and you are way too heavy. Optimum for that boat is about 150 - 160 lbs.
The only singlehanders that would fit your weight is an A-cat or an F-16. Both are going to be expensive and more fragile than the Hobies.
If you can get past the single handing thing, a good alternative for your weight would be a Hobie 20. It's a very active class in that part of the country, used boats are realtively inexpensive, and it would be a good introduction to high-performance catamarans without the complications of the F-18's spinnaker. Once you get the hang of the 20, you can move on to an F-18, which is also fairly active in that part of the country.
Resources:
Hobie Class Association of North America
Hobie Community Forums
Hobie Class Assn. HOTLINE magazine
Rick's Taipan 4.9 is in the classifieds.
MBounds, thanks for the helpful reply. Would I be able to right a H20 solo?
What is the difference between the Blade and the Taipan?
The hull shapes are different, of course.
Also, I believe the original Taipan 4.9 is about 5 inches narrower than the Blade. But that would not be a problem with your weight. And you probably will be sailing in light air most of the time anyway in your area. So a slightly narrower boat might be more fun -- able to fly a hull in less wind. <img src=
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Taipan 4.9 catamaran
to find more information about the boat from various sources, including an owner who has an interesting web site about his boat that he named
Taipanic.
You have a F16 for sale perhaps?
No, I've just bought one <img src=
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Thanks, Mary, for the input. I hope to campaign the boat on East Coast and FL if that would make any difference in selection?
That's out of my realm. If you are going to be sailing your boat off beaches and out through surf, I don't know how the F-16's handle that. Maybe others have had experience.
Bill, give me a call or shoot me an email...
ddbrown (at) ncsu (dot) edu
There is an active Hobie 20 fleet in our area? Wow, I can count on 1 hand how many I've raced against this past year...
(919)-302-0880
Hi Bill,
Give me a shout at tbshannon[at]charter.net. I've been talking to some others from Chattanooga about the F16. Sent you a PM, as well. Might be a good time to arrange a trip to Birmingham for a sail.
Joanna - time to get LO down here, too.
Uh, no - not without shroud extenders, a righting pole, or a water bag. I've only righted a 20 once - and we had maybe 370 lbs on the boat.
I was thinking further west - Little Rock, Memphis, Tulsa, Dallas - but it's a lot further from Chattanooga than I thought.
Trey's going to try to sell you on an I-20 - which is probably a good call, given your location. (But you won't be able to right that one solo, either.)
I actually would push for a hobie 16 solo, and just take the portsmouth hit. So what if you're sailing in open class?
Is it just my imagination or is Nacra a dirty word in here? Just wondering. Anyway, I cannot tell you guys how much I appreciate your help here. I think the H16 might be what I should start with. The price sure is better. However, I am thinking about hitting the tradewinds regatta just to look around and ask questions.
Nacra is far from a dirty word. They make great boats, there just aren't as many of them out there as the Hobie 16's, 18's, etc. I have owned and raced several Nacras. For an entry-level race boat from Nacra, I'd get a Nacra 5.2, or maybe a 5.5 depending on budget. The 5.5 is going to be much more expensive, and more fragile than the 5.2, or a Hobie 16 for that matter...
Go here: http://www.1design.net./ and ask about
Frankenboat
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