It looks like I might have an opportunity to purchase a Capricorn here in the US soon so I'm wondering if there are any current Capricorn owners out there who would be willing to share their experiences with the boat.
I currently sail a Tiger and I'm curious about some of the differences between the boats:
1) How does the rudder feel? Is it light and sensitive like the Tornado for example or is it 'heavier' feel like the Tiger?
2) Are the hulls more prone to pitchpoling downwind?
3) How is the tramp attached to the hulls? Is it an overlapping design like on the Tiger or is it more like the Nacra for example?
Any information, positive or negative about your experience with the boat would be greatly appreciated. If you don't want to post it here you are welcome to PM me and I'll send you my email address.
Cheers,
Olli
I currently sail a Tiger and I'm curious about some of the differences between the boats:
1) How does the rudder feel? Is it light and sensitive like the Tornado for example or is it 'heavier' feel like the Tiger?
More like a Tigers, little bit lighter though...... Not even close to a good set T rudders but not hard to fit Marstrom rudders to it though.
The Capricorn will get up and semi plain down wind and gives you the false confidence that you can push it harder than you realy can. Push it to hard and you loose the nose up attitude of the boat..... It will crash down off the plain sort off like a foil moth crashing down off it's foils, and may lead to a nose dive. Once you learn this characteristic and learn the limits of it.... It is a sweet a$$ ride downwind.
Track at the front beam, rear beam it is lashed whilst the sides run through slots molded in the hulls..... Very stiff tramp. Not as stiff as a Marstrom tramp (but what other cat is) however makes the Hobie tramp look like a soggy hanky.
Final conclusion....... Not even close to a Marstrom T but as far as F-18s go, I rate it above the Tiger in both performance and quality of finish.
One negative I have though but this is also common with the NACRA and Tigers...... The boat is finished of with crap fittings and ropes. When you buy a Capricor, Tiger or Nacra...... Replace all fittings with Harken and replace all ropes with decent stuff.
Replace this stuff on a Capricorn and you will have a quality boat.
T - my Nacra F18 was completely fitted with Harken from the factory. Besides changing some rigging and replacing a couple of lines, the only hardware I replaced were the two idler spin sheet blocks at the shrouds with ratchematics to match the other two that were already supplied on the front beam.
Ollie:
Just get it and sail! The new Nacra Infusion is an answer to the Capricorn. You will not be able to get it in the US probably till about June though. That is if you did not deposit for an Alter Cup boat.
I think that the Infusion is fun to sail. A little weird to weather compared to the Tiger. The Tiger will track a bit better. Heavy rudders I had as well, until I did a lot of tweaking on the Tiger. The Infusion is a bit loosy goosy on the helm. This makes is so easy to turn that one may over steer it. Must keep your disipline.
Downwind it is really fun. The Tiger tracks a bit too much I think downwind making you really pay attention to keeping the boat going in the same direction and changing it very slowly. There is truely a planing feel to the Infusion downwind. It feels as though it is on a plane or wants to get there. It will also hold a lot more crew weight as the hulls are very bouyant.
I say go for the Capricorn and we will see how it works in Illinois.
Hope you sell your boat to someone really interested in performing in the Formula 18 Racing. Good Luck, and say hi to Kelly.
Later,
Dan
i agree jake, Performance don't use anything else but harken,I have never had to change any fitting.
The UK Nacra dealer used to count up the Harken fittings on the boat and add up their list price value and tell people at the boat shows how cheap the rest of the boat must be!
Paul
Dan
Did you sail the production version with the new mast & sails or the prototype Fusion using the old Nacra F18 mast?
My understanding is that the prototype was 25lbs heavy.
Ted
Did you sail the production version with the new mast & sails or the prototype Fusion using the old Nacra F18 mast?
My understanding is that the prototype was 25lbs heavy.
Ted
Ted: That is exactly right. I sailed the 25 lbs over boat. The first production boat was only sailed one day when they called it a success. It sailed better than the prototype and they had all the pieces where they wanted them. I was at the Yacht Club when they sailed out of there for that occasion. The pictures that I posted in the Formula 18 forum where from that day.
Later,
Dan
The fittings I had to change or plan to change on my boat are....
* Spinnaker halyard swivel cleat - cleat only from Ronstan to Harken.
* floating pully between spin halyard and tack line - currently Ronstan... Blew this pully up after modifing the system a bit. Fixed the problem and is now OK. We ran the same pully on the T for 4 years and had no trouble though.
* Spin sheet rachets from Holt which are crap..... both on the T and Capricorn we trie them and they blew up on the first outing each time. We now have Ronstan ones which did the job on the T and now the F-18. I believe Goodall supplies these now. Harken ones are better though.
* Spinnaker halyard and tack lines are absolute crap rope.... Replace these as soon as you get the new boat or ask Goodall to put some decent stuff on it. Likewise with the downhaul.
** All other ropes and fittings ar OK. Rudders are not too bad...... Just does not compare to a good Marstrom T. AHPC, I believe are using mostly Harken stuff on the boat now with some Ronstan here and there. Just let Goodall know you want your boat fitted out with Harken and you will have no problem.
Thanks T. That's great info. I don't mind changing fittings and lines as I'm used to doing that on the Tiger. My Tiger is currently setup more like a Tornado anyway. I did hear that they made some block and cleat changes for the 2006 models. I'll have to make sure I get those and I'll ask about better lines as well.
I really like the way the Tornado steers and feels. You get so much more feedback from the boat. That is what got me thinking about a better F18.
Dan, Sounds like sailing it could be a blast. I'm very tempted about going for it. There is an opportunity to get a great deal and I could have the boat in March. My thinking on the Nacra is that it is going to take them a couple of iterations to work the kinks out anyway. Plus why not go for the 'real thing'. 
You are obviously importing new...... Are you doing this privately or is somebody now importing them.
Also, AHPC has or soon will have a new rudder blade for the Capricorn to replace the old Taipan 5.7 blade that is currently used. I am not going to get them..... Looking at either a set of Marstrom T rudders or look into making some stocks up for a set of Marstrom 20 rudders.
I'm not importing them, but looks like there is going to be an importer/dealer bringing a few here to the US and they offered a great deal if I prebuy one to help them fill a container.
Yeah, I heard that about the rudders. I've been waiting to hear when the new ones will be available. Switching to Marstrom rudders sounds like a great idea. Let me know how that works for you.
A big portion of the Marstom Tornados steering feel is the STIFF Carbon tiller cross bar. On my boat:
The carbon tiller crossbar is steering with 2 fingers.
The Aluminum/Carbon tiller crossbar is steering with 3 fingers
The old Aluminum tiller crossbar is steering with 1 hand.
(I have all 3 and tried them).
Is the F18 restricted to aluminum for the tiller cross bar?
Why don't you just keep sailing a boat that steers nice
and goes very fast.
Matt
P.S.
Have a nice day sanding!
Hi,
New to this web forum would love some info about the Capricorn, sounds really kool.
Is there a dealer in the US yet?
What is the Capricorn Web page?
Thanks Matt
and goes very fast.
Probably because it is hard to find a big fleet to sail against and Ollie is really good in big fleet sailing. I know that he was able to sail the T in Florida recently with a lot of boats, but how often does that happen? Another concern is set up time (a couple of hours) and travelling (with the boat sideways).
Ollie, we are all interested in the "great deal" you got. If you do not want to mention the exact amount can you hint about the percent discount from say a $15,000 boat? Sly huh?
You may know by now that there are some manufacturing delays for the Infusion. The June time frame for the U.S. to finally get boats is kind of up in the air now, with that. Certainly the Capricorn is an interesting boat and has created a stir with its performance. I cannot imagine that it would lose any more value than any other Formula 18 in the States if you decided to sell it. Maybe with the scarcity it would be quicker to sell. In the end it is just the hulls you are buying because everything else can be replaced with equipment we already have available. What I mean to say is you will not be left in the learch because the manufacturer cannot get you parts quickly, just use whatever we use on the Hobies or Nacras for replacements.
Later,
Dan
The prices I heard were around 18,000 US dollars and I thought that there would not be too many sailors wanting to spend that much money. Maybe they are going to drop the price to get some Capricorns in the US.
Thanks Dan I will take a look.
Matt
Hi Dan. I'm not supposed to give out specifics yet because I don't thing the deal has been completely finalized, but let's just say that the price is well in the ballpark of a new Tiger.
Also, this is not some special deal just for me - I think it would be available to anyone interested in a Capricorn or the A-cat if they are willing to prebuy the boat (as long as there is room in the container).
Email me if you want more details about the deal.
and goes very fast.
Tornado699, I would love to keep sailing it, but I think the owner is getting anxious to get it back. Could you talk to him about letting me keep it for good?
Tornado Alive,
I confirm that Nacra is delivered fully Harken equipped.
JrMinardi
Swiss Nacra Dealer
and goes very fast.
Matt
P.S.
Have a nice day sanding!
After the 2007 Australian Worlds 
Ollie:
I would seriously consider getting a new Nacra if I am in the market for a boat this year. I am curious to see what Hobie will do if there is a real difference between the Infusion and the Tiger. I do not even mean a sailing difference. They have to consider the market perception difference as well. New boat sexy design vs. older boat. Tiger still doing well in the standings but I like the thinking in Pete's design. That is to level the playing field. He thinks it will be an all round easier boat to sail.
Later,
Dan
Dan,
Yeah, I'm very curious about what changes Hobie might do if the Nacra turns out to be noticeably faster.
I thought quite a bit about whether to go for the Infusion or the Capricorn and the reason I currently feel more comfortable about buying the Cap is because it is in it's third year. The Infusion is radically different from the previous Nacra so I consider it a first generation boat. I figure I'll let other sailors help work out the kinks out of the Infusion. I'm sure it is going to be a great boat though.
Not to mention, I can get a Cap next month. Sounds like I'd be looking at mid to end of summer for the Nacra.
My only hesitation currently is that I don't want to give up some of the Hobie events in the Northeast. We are going back up there for the summer and there are a few great regattas I 'd hate to miss.
I may have to hold on to the Tiger a while longer.
Thanks HCA!
Olli,
I think your true reasoning is that you know you will not be able to attend madcatter and you are worried that Bret and I may finally actually hold you off for a whole race. Like we almost did at tradewinds... we almost had you but yet even though kelly decided to inspect your spinnaker pole you still managed to get by us!
haha just kidding... but we will miss you at Madcatter if you decide to leave the tiger, on another note if you decide to sell your boat consider me in line.
Olli and others,
It is unfortunate that because of your desire to own a Capricorn, you won’t be able to attend or race in the Madcatter. I have in the past attended the Madcatter, and share your pain of what I have been missing. The C fleet informational meeting was very helpful since it was my first racing as a captain. Rob Jerry, Mimi Apple, and Pat Castor were extremely helpful. Certainly, the best parties at any Regatta I've ever been to including monohauls; rums squalls and Syracuse girls dancing on the bar top. Everyone should be able to experience Adam Zell’s expert operation of the beer truck and the great racing your Madcatter offers. As my family becomes old enough to race, hopefully, the Madcatter will become an open event. We could tie the Madcatter into visiting our family in the area as a family vacation. Looks like for the immediate future, maybe we should just help Adam keep the beer truck safe and functioning. For the foreseeable future, I don’t envision sailing a Hobie again. Notice, I am not saying never, but it close to that.
A note about a trend in our club, when I first joined our club there must have been four or five Hobies racing in it four years ago. This year I don’t think there will be any. Hobie owners are more than welcome and are encouraged to participate in our club and CRAC events.
I think your true reasoning is that you know you will not be able to attend madcatter and you are worried that Bret and I may finally actually hold you off for a whole race. Like we almost did at tradewinds... we almost had you but yet even though kelly decided to inspect your spinnaker pole you still managed to get by us!
haha just kidding... but we will miss you at Madcatter if you decide to leave the tiger, on another note if you decide to sell your boat consider me in line.
wildtsail, That was a good race - all the way to the end. You know, it is always a good idea to send your crew to check the block at the end of the spin pole before attempting a douse. 
We had full plans to attend Madcatter this year, but it looks like we are going to the World Sailing Games. Madcatter is the best event each year and we are sorry to miss it, especially the Madslapper hockey session Friday morning.
Sounds nasty!
I think my previous post shows that I am guilty of a little drunken catsailor forum posting. Goes to show you my dedication to the sport when I come back from the bar and read the catsailor forum.
-Todd