Cats for the AC it is... Alinghi must face BMW

Cool! Who builds such boats? Wonder if Smyth will get a ride?

AC racing in Catamarans, it won't be tactical then. <img src=

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It's definately happenig. I happen to know of a tornado sailor who has been hired by BMW to go teach them how to race cats.

Right at the same time they take catamarans out of the olympics! I love it....

Come on everyone, lets all take Alinghi to court....

Everyones doing it!

I am SURE my rights were infringed somehow.... and they stifled my competition...

I really believe that Alinghi was about to completely wreck the AC - are you saying that the case by Ellison wasn't justified?

not at all... i was just trying to be humorous and thought it was a sign of the times how many teams were in litigation.

hahaa..yeah, it was piling up - New Zealand never did say who was financially backing them in their case and although they denied it, I think through some back-channel Ellison financed them toward the court case to try and push the current case off-center (i.e., Cahn needs to come out with a ruling or more painful and time-consuming cases are going to come up). I bet the New Zealand case gets dropped soon.

So ok, we're going racing as soon as the legal debate over the date of the match is settled (this is going to be a bump in the road but a minor one). What kind of boats are we going to see? My early, early prediction are catamarans with center stiffening pods (that may or may not touch the water) and outer hulls with lifting foils (banana or other) and perhaps lifting foils with some sort of variable geometry. Based on what I know of current airborne foiling monsters, they really need to reach to be effective - otherwise, they're dragging a lot of hydraulics and underwater appendages.

As far as the rig goes, I think a full-on rigid wing sail is too risky...these things will have to go a long 20 miles downwind and the complication of adding downwind sails to a rigid wings are tough and risky for failure. I do think we'll see a very large chord mast with fabric sails and an array of screachers and smaller head sails working off a very solid central pod like the D35 catamarans. The big variable right now is the location of the match - will it be a light, flat, and shifty venue or a heavy, big seas, full-on venue? That part is up to Alinghi and could have considerable impact on the design parameters.

As far as the racing goes, I think someone is going to come out of the gates with an awesome machine and the other is going to be left breathing spray off the rudders and this is going to be a 3 race series decided in 2. I'm really rooting for GGYC.

I'm not. Nothing worth rooting for in Larry Ellisons team. It is all

lots of money

, no interesting engineering, new concepts or even out of the box thinking. And to top it off,

money

lost in no unsignificant way last time.

Alighni is LOTS more interesting. At least they try new stuff.

Wouter

At least I know were I will spend my holiday next year - will be great to see these 90 ft monsters

And you would have first hand knowledge of the Oracle multihull???

Don't judge it till you see it. I think you will be surprised.

That is just the thing isn't it ?

Nobody has any knowlegde about it.

And as long as it isn't here we just have to go on past

achievements

And Alighies achievements so far are alot more interesting.

A leopard doesn't change its spots.

Wouter

There are people with knowledge of the boat and I can tell you its a weapon.

I'm a bit lost as to why you think Alinghi try new stuff compared to BMWOR.. I think you will find that of the V5 boats that boat teams have built the US boats were more out there than the Swiss boats. Sure the Swiss boats proved to be quicker but in the

interesting

stakes BMWO has it won. A lot of the things tried were not in the public domain but they were quite innovative.

Also the BMWO team of today is markedly different in its makeup than that of old, so if you think the spots are the same I suggest you take a closer look.

He is not a bad A Class sailor also <img src=

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Sailing Anarchy keeps talking about a giant BMW/Oracle trimaran, is it gonna be tri vs cat?

No you can't because it has not been tested against its equal rivals yet.

We had the same amount of rumours about playstation back in the day but the Ollier cats made short work of that.

Lets face it Macca you don't know either (as no-one does) and are just guessing.

But I'm ready to be surprised !

With respect to the other points :

Sure the Swiss boats proved to be quicker ...

I rest my case.

Wouter

The reason most people are rooting for GGYC is because of Alinghi's [censored] tactics to try and commandeer the cup for the forseeable future. It has nothing to do (at least for me) with whose boat is the most innovative.

btw. macca ftw.

Me, too. <img src=

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Ok, you guys are going to have quit quoting this nonsense because I don't see it normally.

What a baseless piece of crap claim!

If we want to briefly talk about the last cup - BMW/Oracle did have the technology...they just got spanked on the water tactically and IMHO it was a result of loading up the skipper with too much team management responsibility outside of driving the boat. Their boat had plenty of speed and they proved it again and again but dug too deep a hole off the start line dig out of.

This is going to be really interesting. Ellison has pulled the plug on the financial bathtub and I guarantee you the boat coming out their shed is going to be a very well refined, thoroughly designed, monster. Likewise for Alinghi though on some level, I don't think Bertarelli cares enough anymore to plan on the same level.

I know I'm going to regret this, but can you list the

new stuff

Alinghi has used in the AC?

Yep, that was what I was told back in the days of Playstations participation in the race and Fossets

round the world but not Jules Verne certified

record. First failed to finish and the second was put back in his place by the French only months later. Almost to the letter of what I had predicted months earlier.

To me BMW-Oracle is just another obscenely rich syndicate that thinks that you can just outspend your competition and expect to come out on top. To me, that is not interesting.

Explains a large part of my disinterest in the AC as well but that is another topic.

I'll be routing for the least moneyed syndicate that has be creative and balanced in their approach to the event (and checkbook).

And I really don't care what you guys all think of that.

Wouter

HAWT!

I WANT ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But i think i need a bigger trailer too!

Call Marstrøm and order one, but you

might

need some sponsors and would probably be

branded

a pro as well. All well worth it <img src=

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nothing like flying a hull 20' in the air!

It has to be weird, using a dagger board 10' tall

Su*ks to be them huh <img src=

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I had dinner in December with a member of BMWO who is now living in the PNW and Franck C has been working with the team for months, the build has been going on for some period of time in Washington and the boat will be quite interesting.

I wonder how big their

righting

bag is? <img src=

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I don't care who you are rooting for - that's your own personal preference.

I fail to see how Playstation factors into this discussion - everyone, including Fossett, knew the boat wasn't ready for

The Race

and with regards to it not being ratified by the Jules Verne group; Fossett and his crew CHOOSE to not have it ratified because it was a couple of fat French dudes demanding he pay them $50,000 (if I remember correctly) just to apply

Jules Verne

name to his record. Technically they were supposed to pay the fee before the record attempt but the Jules Verne committee offered them another opportunity to pay up before they finished. Fossett held a vote on board the boat and it was nearly unanimous against paying the fee. Again though, what does this have to do with the current America's Cup?

How about that list of Alinghi innovations that exceeds the BMW/Oracle effort you claim was so superior?

Remember those air filled inflated battens that everyone started using? That was BMW airbag technology adapted to the boat...let's hear it.