Charleston RW

This is the first I've heard of it.

The only way that would work is if James Island YC hosted the F18s (I think there's another club on the opposite side that might have some water access)...there's not much water access to work from around there for a sizable fleet...and, well...that Harbor is not THAT big. I'm amazed they get as many boats in there as they do already. We've had serious commercial traffic concerns racing there with only two race courses in the past.

Only the Melges and Vuper fleets are in the harbor. The PHRF boats go out into the ocean.

From CRW, this has got to be the most painful gate rounding ever. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10152105553584895

The torquedo maneuver at 2:20 is priceless...

If the RC let that race finish, I would not want to be defending Torquedo against RRS 44.1(b).

I would also not want to be the PRO defending a decision not to abandon. Of course we don't have the full story of the entire race or regatta, but that looks like a great day to NOT be the PRO...

Mike

Aaaaaaa Charleston. It's a great place to sail (if you are OK with the commercial traffic) but when it doesn't blow, it sucks, literally. Lots of current.

There was some discussion about trying to do CRW because it fit well with our boats return from Florida. We decided entry fee was too steep to pursue beyond initial discussions.

Big plus 1 on that! It's a venue where an anchor is a secret weapon.

+1. Also never found out if they can make space for us....

The current in that video certainly was impressive. The only thing faster than the boats with the private glory puffs and chutes up were the boats going backwards...

Mike

Thanks, I thought I remembered some discussion.

What value do you guys see in showing up at the mega multiclass events? My experience is that nobody cares about what other classes are on their race course or in the regatta... until they have an issue... and then the SOB is an axxhole and A class should not share the course with Lightings (my favorite dick fleet).

I would love to believe that participation at Charlston or Newport or in my world...Annapolis to Oxford would be worth the PIA but..

Is it just the off chance that somebodies crew wanders over and starts up a conversation based on the cool hat and T shirt you are sporting?

I want to believe that it is worth it.. but I really have no evidence that it helps or works.

I don't know how many people directly

convert

at the sight of our boats (maybe Jeff or Todd can speak to this for Newport), but if nothing else, it gets to showcase the boats, and helps in lots of other ways (venues for future major events, etc.).

There can be negative consequences to this much attention. There were a few situations at Buzzards a few years back that we can talk about over a beer sometime.

For the most part, these events are festivals where you can party with lots of folks from many, many classes. None of the circle groupings, all the way up to the big boats, is ideal.

But, you get to show up, pay your money, and someone else does all the work (OA, RC, PC and parties).

Mike

We sail in a few multiclass events- Madcatter, Wickford, Newport, Hyannis, and HPDO. Part of the reason is exposure to other fleets, especially jr. sailors and college sailors. Does it help bring sailors to our fleet? I think so. I personally want our fleet to be viewed as a high performance one-design fleet with critical mass in New England. I want sailors looking to step into a competitive one-design fleet to see us having close racing with solid numbers and know we are an option. I know when I was looking to buy a boat I looked at what fleets had good turnout at local events- I could care less how many hulls.

We also like multi-class events because we don't have to worry about the logistics- you show and and race. We also like the social scene with friends from other fleets.

Also, Newport and Hyannis are just awesome venues.

One think that's important is that you get put on a course with appropriate boats. We typically share courses with Vipers, 505s, 49ers, and VXones, and that is ok. At Hyannis we share with the J22s and that is also fine because we just sail around them. At BBR we shared a course with the A and B phrf boats and that was a nightmare, especially because of the starting order.

The PHRF trimarans were invited this year for the first time. I am presuming they participated on the

Pursuit Course

since only five boats actually showed to Start, and they only got in two races. Reminded me of our way of dealing with a

cruising

class on Pensacola Bay during a buoy - style event. I hope the boys enjoyed the show, but at least they planted a seed, larger multihulls usually inspire smaller multihulls. That has been the case in NOOD events.

The 49ers and N 17s in Miami were a bit surprised to find that there appeared to be limited shore support at the Rowing Club except for the coaches.

I can just imagine what fitting into CRW would be like for beach cats.

I would opine that beachcats and the like might

fit

better with a small sportboat regatta rather than a larger mono/multi event (like boats over 30').

Smaller sportboats are in a similar pricerange and you might find more potential converts (fewer crew requirements, higher performance, etc) than the big boat teams?

That's because you're not a catsailor... <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />

Jeff, take us through your NE circuit, and list the events with the other classes on each circle, starting order, types of courses/number of laps vs. the other boats, pros/cons and any other details that might help us get an idea of what works well (and what doesn't).

Mike

CRW has M24s and J70s out the wazoo but I suppose you are talking about smaller sport boats like 49er, 29er, etc.?

I think it would be great to have an F18 fleet at CRW (and I have a free place to stay! ;-)) but I just don't know how they fit us in that bay without sending us up the river or off a beach (which would defeat the purpose to be so far away from everyone else).

I don't mind monohull crowding. I think it's still good to mix it up with them - otherwise, they don't notice we're there. There will be some tension at marks but, ehh, there's tension anyway. I think it would be interesting to use the Spring Fever style start line with separate start and finish lines below and above the course respectively. If you're careful with the starts, I think it could still work.

My favorite is while sailing on a mixed course, I was sailing my a-cat and approaching A-mark on the wire. An MC scow sailor was coming in at the mark wide (well overstood giving me plenty of overlap). He apparently never saw me and turned down hard into me driving me into the mark. Of course I gave him the protest hail. His reply?

Well if you weren't so f(*&#$ing fast this wouldn't have happened!

. He bought an a-cat a year later.

It's almost always better to sail around monohulls at marks, even if you have all the rights in the world. They don't typically anticipate how fast you'll get in there, so they don't plan ahead (or react fast enough) to give you the room.

Mike

I knew somebody was going to lecture me about that. <img src="<>/tired.gif" alt="tired" title="tired" height="15" width="15" /> I was in the lead and would have had to tack twice to get around him which wasn't going to do me any good.

Had there been damage, it could have been bad for you.

I feel for you though, sometimes it's really hard to anticipate their (lack of) reaction.

Mike

Jake
So... Midwinters in January were held in the Keys (Ilesmorada) including Miami OCRs and youth qualifiers . for all classes...

The March/April period saw three events each trying to draw from the national pool of racers. The results are mixed..
Spring Fever all classes (cratered)
Hobie Midwinters Hobie 16, 17, 18 an No F18s)
Davis Island, A class.
Charlston for F18s never flew
Outer Banks for A class never flew.

So, this is tough on Regatta organizers.. This time period is the beginning of your sailing season in Fla, the South and the Gulf coast... What are your thoughts about what needs to happen looking forward to next year?

Each event on your list probably has a unique reason why it fell short - but I think you hit on it earlier at some point in that long thread. I've thought a good bit about this and I think it boils down to two related words: Outreach and Conversation. If you look back 10 years at the events that are struggling now, key people were very engaged in the national conversation around sailing and they don't seem to be as involved as they used to be on that level. I'm not placing ANY fault here...life, time, money, (thanks Jay) all get in the way. I also think that some of it is cyclical as the organizational energy transfers from old to new and I see some new that is ready to pick up and run.

I see the future unfolding two ways. The first one is a controlled method, the second is letting human nature take it (but with some risk).

1) For the big events to pick back up, they need to have conversations with the classes and other organizations about what they can do to be more accommodating and/or attractive to the classes/organizations. Through that, we will likely reforge some relationships and realize a slight reduction in the overall number of events. More partnership and a little rejuvenated energy will result and we'll get things back on track.

2) The other way this goes, is that we keep plodding along until enough events die that some of the new blood gets bored with having nothing to do and injects some excitement with something new once enough event death has occurred. There's risk in this option, however, because the newer folks might not be excited enough (or have enough free time) to pick up that big torch.

when you do sail around them and blow their doors off it is quite rewarding, especially if they are trying to stall you or box you out.

My 5-6 regattas at Charleston have all lead to bleeding on one part of my body or another, that harbor can get rough real quick, not sure if it is the container ships, current, wind, or all of the above but I have had only a few pleasereable sails there on a cat. I did have the Laser out there and the Whaler and had a blast, I think the harbor knows when you show up on a cat and says this world belongs to the E-Scows, go away!

Actually, it's the E-scows that say that. 😉 The harbor is challenging to sail. The current can induce a big chop and it can get sporty.

The F18 class did not attempt to attend Charleston, so I wouldn't say that was a failure.

Earlier you asked about the benefits of attending big multi-class events, and the stability of those events is a huge draw. With an event like the Newport or Hyannis regatta, there is a very very small chance of cancellation. Large events tend to have an organized web presence, timely pre-registration, and consistent logistics. It is very easy to plan in advance for these events because they happen the same weekend every year. If I had booked travel for an event like Spring fever only to have it cancelled I would be very unhappy.

Jeff and all - Do not forget about CORK. There will likely be a N 17 circle because that is Canada's

Olympic Classes Regatta

for the year. They spread their events out in contrast to the Miami gig. I am sure Pat L would be glad to have members of the F 18 Class with him on the water. We tried this last year, if I recall. If you would care for a hook - up, let me know.

FWIW, it's noted on the USF18 website event list that the F18 Canadian Nationals will be at Kingston ON Aug 16-19.

BTW - for you guys north of the border, nearly every single one of your catamaran related websites are outdated and have inaccurate info. The only place I could find information on Can Nats was on the US F18 site. Time to step it up <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Please Explain how it could be bad for him if he had rights and wasn't doing anything wrong, unless you mean getting hit by a scow on an A. That would probably suck.
If you're on the same course and paid the same entry fee, giving everyone a pass because you are on a cat will do nothing to open their eyes and make them pay attention.

I was pretty ticked off at the time - but we laugh about it now. You just really have to watch your overlaps at the zone in that kind of mixed fleet and making some vocalizations doesn't hurt either. Running down a gaggle of J24s at C-mark while they're dorking around with a gybe drop of that ancient symmetrical spinnaker is P.A.I.N.F.U.L! 😉 Talk about a pinwheel!

Hey... the bowman union is going to take you out... try that maneuver in 15 knots... it is exciting. What is there to do for the bowman on a boat with an Asym?

Now... mixing it up on buoy course with Lightnings or bigger requires a LOT of trust... ie... the cat sailors knows the rules...and / or the mononohull sailor knows the rules and figures out time and distance quickly....