Just trying to get your attention, sort of like the National Enquirer headlines. Here's the situation. Carl Roberts says he is thinking about having a female crew again in the 2003 Worrell 1000. Here is part of what I wrote back to him about it by e-mail:
I guess I should clarify my feelings about women racing in events like that. I think it would be fine for two well-qualified women to race together on the same boat. But, in many cases, I do not think it is safe for a man and woman to race together. My reasoning is that this makes an already dangerous race even more dangerous for the man on the boat -- not necessarily for the woman. I think it is important for each of the people on the boat to have the strength to rescue the other person. When you have people of disparate weight and strength capabilities, it is more dangerous for the heavier and stronger of the two. I, for instance, would have a hard time hauling Rick back aboard the boat if he were injured or unconscious. Two women racing together would probably have more equal abilities to rescue each other, just as two men do.
I just wanted you to know that my opinion is not sexist -- just based upon common sense and safety concerns for the men. My opinion might be the same about you (Carl) sailing with a smaller, weaker male -- but a man usually has considerably more muscle and strength per body size than a woman does.
You men always seem to think in terms of being the rescuer and you don't think about having to be the rescuee.
I may take some heat for this but this reminds me of a situation a friend of mine is in. He skippers his boat at the local club races on Wednesday nights. He has two women for crew and it always seems that ...."He's always wrong"
Personally I don't have any gender preferences of who I crew for.
Robert
Mary, your just trying to stir things up aren't you?! I know some women who are more than capable of rescuing me, in fact it has happened in 15-20 mph winds when a trapeze wire broke. Remember it's not a class of people that should be banned, it is the qualification of each. I know quite a few men that I wouldn't sail that race with because I don't feel they would be qualified to save me if something happened.
Hi Mary
just joking as most always ,-people take things way too seriously on web sites ,
-Sailed the 2000 Worrell with an excellent female co-skipper ,-she broke her leg the following year with a different skipper along with another racer the same leg ,-leg of the race that is ,--,-different leg and place broken . --confusing but, Tom is an experienced professional excellent sailor which shows it can happen to anyone of any gender size strength .
Agree with both other posts ,some you would not want to attempt this type of race with due to inexperience and conditioning, you need some distance racing miles logged , and the experience that goes with it and good physical conditioning to attempt this type of racing ,--
[being a little crazy helps too }
Any potential crew mate needs to be able to rely on the other , some days you may be dehydrated ,-exhausted ,-you may have flipped numerous times swallowed sea water . You may have bruises cuts that easily get infected being on the ocean for 12 hour days sometimes -nights . So you have to take really good care of yourself each day and make sure your crewmate does the same and you watch out for each other realizing the accumulation of these aspects of this race take their toll.
If a smaller crew needs to get a larger one back aboard just as with big boats mechanical advantage is there to use .
On big boats a winch is sometimes used to retrieve a man overboard clipping a snap shackle on to their harness or life jacket rings then winching them up the high sides of a typical monohull. We are much lower in the water ,-particularly this year on the Jav , Any could easily use mainsheet blocks with a snap shackle with an 8 to one power purchase to pull any back up on a hull.
I generally go out ,practise the day before the race ,and go through the worst case scenarios , learn to hit a GPS cordinate if needed , and flip and right the boat .You spend two days tuning checking and testing gear before also .
I,m not good at every aspect and do really rely on the other with me ,-Many other more dedicated skippers are better at different aspects.
I,ll always remember David and I in 01 the first leg, We had never sailed together and did not get any time to go out the day before the race begane that year. -Of course it was blowing 20 to 25 on the nose that day .
To make a long story short , Dave was great on the boat ,we just dodged the P Yacht Gals at the start who were out of controll and we popped out near the front of the pack . One by one boats around us flipped or fell way back and we found ourselves leading much of that first day being nipped out at the line by 12 seconds by Brian and Jamie ,---reached a little too much and got closer to shore . --What a great day of racing for Dave and I , I'll always remember it ,and have a great areal photo of us leading that day as the screen saver , so see it each day . So many fantasic people and adventures over the years .
If I could wish a Holiday gift for each catsailor ,-whether a beginer or one of the very best in the sport , at any level . It would be to find the wondefull people ,great joy and adventure in sailing this sport can bring .
Happy Holidays
Carl
Has anybody ever actually done that -- winching somebody back aboard a cat using mainsheet blocks? I am trying to picture the scenario in big seas and wind, one person on the boat trying to hold onto the person in the water and at the same time trying to keep the boat headed into the wind and at the same time rigging this makeshift hoist and then getting the boat turned so that the boom is on the same side as the overboard person, and figuring out how to attach the hoist line to the person, while trying not to capsize, etc., etc.
And, of course, when one person falls off the boat, often this results in the boat capsizing right away, which creates a whole new set of problems.
Maybe some of the experienced Worrell sailors should start a whole thread devoted to worst-case scenarios and suggestions for dealing with them. Might save a life.
Mary,
Is there a primary assumption in these "what ifs" that the injured sailor is tethered?
It is my understanding that some Worrell sailors use tethers and some don't. A lot of people used to be afraid to use them. I don't know what the current trend is. I wasn't trying to give information, just trying to get more information from Carl about the winching idea.
You, Kevin, in fact, are the one who got me to thinking about relative weight and strength factors when attempting a rescue -- it was your story about your cold-water rescue of a guy with your kayak. How many women do you think could have accomplished that?
I realize it is not politically correct to say that women can't do everything men can do, and I know that men hesitate to talk about this. But being a woman myself, it doesn't bother me a bit to say women can't do everything. I have a lot of friends out there racing in the Worrell 1000, and they are all men, and I feel a lot better about their safety if both people on the boat have similar strength and endurance and skill. Women can easily have the same sailing skills as men, but you will never convince me that they have the same strength. (Obviously, there are exceptions, but very few.)
Hey Mary-
Easy for you to say!!!
thom
I brought up tethers mainly because I'm curious how many cat sailors actually use them. I've contemplated adding tethers but have resisted adding any more complication to the tramp of my N6.0. I'd be really interested to hear opinions on their use.
As for the strength differences between men and women, it is a simple reality that must be faced when considering the risk at hand. (When I was in the Air Force, there was an ongoing debate about women in combat situations. Many of the same issues.)
Among the things I do to earn a living is to teach sea kayaking. In addition to the basics, I teach reentry and rescue techniques. One of the key points that I try to emphasize is that each paddler must be well aware of his/her limitations. Part of developing that awareness is practicing the skills in the conditions you plan to paddle in. I encourage folks to pick a day when the water is warm and the wind is strong, but blowing onshore. Go out, turn the boat over and test your skills. We simulate injuries. (Shoulder dislocations are a common injury for paddlers in rough conditions.) We practice putting an incapacitated paddler back in their boat and getting them to help, etc, etc.
When Hurricane Floyd came up the coast a few years ago, it created a pretty good blow on Lake Champlain - sustained winds in excess of 50 knots and the highest waves ever recorded on the lake. My wife, myself, and some of my more experienced guides took the opportunity for practice and headed for the broad lake. We were on the water for a mere 45 minutes, but learned a lot. In particular, we learned that the rescue techniques that we practice do, in fact, work in survival situations.
As for cat sailors, I'm not sure what the level of rescue practice is in "combat" situations, but the bottom line is that we all need to be aware of our skills and physical limitations, then plan our sailing accordingly.
I would imagine that the traditional method of winching somebody aboard using the boom might not be practical on a beach cat.
However, if the person is incapacitated, the best way might be to "winch" him in directly over the side of the boat - a block and tackle hooked to the other side of the boat (opposite hiking strap or the such) with the length of the tackle NOT so long it that it extends over the rescue side, a tether from the end of the tackle over the side to a sling under the victims arms so he is facing away from the boat, then use the tackle to pull him up - the system would need enough mechanical advantage/purchase to compensate for the strength of the weakest crew member. You'll likely put a rope burn or two in the gel coat, but that's a small cost in a dire situation. A cleat on the block and tackle would be helpful or even necessary to hold the system in place while the crew prepares for the next pull.
If a person is not incapacitated, but can't easily get back on the boat, maybe something similar to the netting deployed in the side of ships could be used - add hand-hold loops to it maybe so you can get a hold where it is up against the hull. Made with the right line/construction, something like that could be stored easily onboard, deployed by one person, and give the victim valuable grips for hanging on to the boat (which would make it easier for the person on board to help) or getting back on.
Just some ideas...
Good input Keith and Kevin ,
All of us , any on the water in on any type of craft are at risk ,-if you don't understand this you should not go offshore on any body of water. Know your limitations as Kevin notes with kayak experiences . There is no way to be safe in every imaginable scenario. If any are hit by a sudden storm with 50 -60 mph winds or up you are surviving. Make it to the beach if possible ,-if not you're capsized so just let the boat go turtle , mast down ,stay with the boat--now very easy to get on being level with the water and hang on and ride it out . You should have a cell phone or radio ,-if not an emergency flare or 3 to set off for help . Most of us have been there in some way to some extent . Others experiences and how they survived sudden storms or difficult conditions and situations is very valuable for others to read .
Bill Wallace and Dave who will be gr crew again this year in the Worrell and are both past sailors in it have experience as part of rescue teams responding to EPIRB signals .
--People like this have the most interesting information and insights to share ,-fasinating to hear their stories. It's always the people on the front lines that really know and understand the different aspects of the sport. 
A good thing to have handy is a four-foot loop of webbing. It can be quickly slipped around a shroud with the loop extending down into the water. The sailor in the water slips his/her foot in it like a stirrup, taking the burden off the upper body and using the legs to get back on the boat.
Kevin,
In years past I remember experimenting with a loop and also with a rope ladder. In both cases, the devices actually made it more difficult -- if not impossible -- to get back onto the boat because, being flexible materials, as soon as you put your foot into the loop or onto the rope ladder rung, the whole thing curved under the hull, which radically changed your leverage.
It is very difficult to talk about all these things in mere words. Wouldn't it be great to have seminars to deal with subjects like this and have a marker board and be able to make diagrams and to experiment with things in the water on various types of boats; and to demonstrate various types of tethering techniques, how to attach restrainer foot loops; and to maybe take an old hull and experiment with flotation; and to take a mast and submerge it and show how to detect and seal leaks -- and also to experiment with different types of masthead flotation.
There are endless "what-if" scenarios that could be covered in a seminar like that. It would be fascinating! And it would be nice to find out what works and what doesn't.
Mary,
I've found that the webbing loop works best on boats with boards. By attaching to the shroud and putting a foot in at the boards, the board limits the inward rotation. The loop acts sort of like having a step on the side of the board.
[color]> Wouldn't it be great to have seminars to deal with subjects
> like this and have a marker board and be able to make
> diagrams and to experiment with things in the water on
> various types of boats;
Sounds like a great idea for a seminar. Seems like the demand for such a session will only grow as the popularity of distance races keeps increasing.
Kevin,
I knew you were going to say that about the boards. Tried that. I thought the same way you did. Still didn't work. The board is still back under the curve. I can tell that you are going to try this stuff yourself as soon as the water gets warm again.
Mary,
Hmmm. It worked when I tried it. The loop extends the minimal length necessary to get a foot in (as close to the surface as possible). You raise a good point, though. There is no universal answer. It's up to each of us to sort out what works best for our particular situation (boat type, body type, etc.). I've found in my kayak classes that reentry techniques that are impossible for some can be easy for others, and vice versa. I try to teach a variety of options and ask the students to find the one(s) that works best for them.
You're right, too, about the fact that once the ice and snow disappear in the spring, I'll be out there experimenting.
As for tethers, do you have a sense for how many cat sailors actually use one? I've seen the requirement for them in distance race NOR's, but, for instance, the NE100 requires only that, "this line should be utilized when underway in heavy seas or darkness".
Rick is home again, and I just asked him about tethers in the Worrell 1000. He says most of the sailors use them now except for a few "good old boys." I don't know what that means. Maybe the people who have visions of the boat cartwheeling across the water as they are being keelhauled.
Here's another follow-up question. How often do cat sailors practice MOB drills?
When you ask "how often," that assumes that catamaran sailors do practice man-overboard drills. Most catamaran sailors don't like to "practice" anything. And I don't know where any would even be taught how to do a man-overboard drill unless they had taken some sort of certification learn-to-sail course. Some fleets have fun events that simulate man-overboard retrieval, but it is not retrieval of anything similar to a human being. Some of the boat-handling drills in Rick's seminars would help with man-overboard retrieval. But no complete drills that include learning the various techniques. I have read about them in various magazines, but never actually seen them applied in real life except when I have fallen off the boat (trapeze breakage) going to weather, and Rick circled around, came up to me to leeward, grabbed me by the butt of my trapeze harness, threw me on the tramp and yelled, "Sheet in the jib."
The extent of my personal retrieval experience as skipper is recovering a grandchild's hat. Oh, yeah, and the other day my dog fell off over the main beam and I grabbed him as he was coming out the back and hauled him onto the boat over the rear beam.
As I said, somebody needs to organize a seminar to cover all kinds of safety stuff like that.
I raced the last 2 years in the worrell and we both wore teathers a good % of the time. They offer a great comfort level when offshore, nightime,and when the weather starts to get nasty like the kill devil hills to V.B. leg last year. The crew only need to remember to go in and out on the same side of the shrouds. A few months ago I had the harness hook break and I fell in with the teather on. The boat just comes to a stop fast. Depending on you point of sail determins what the boat does. In my case we had the kite up and went into a jibe and the boat stopped and flipped towards us.
As for womens strengths. If something that drastic happened we all get that blind adrenaline rush in desperate time which may take over limited physical ability. So I think it all breaks down to skill level and feeling comfortable that the people you sail with can perform any task at hand.
JIM TEAM LEXISNEXIS
Mary: the extent of my overboard drills on a catamaran also involve the family's golden retreivers 
Gabby is a bit spastic, and she likes to eat jellyfish so when she sees one go by the boat, she jumps in after it.
On mono's, where I was "raised" I've done quite a bit of man overboard drills. On a cat, its difficult to drop the main as quickly as a non-hook-and-ring, more traditional setup.
I also sail singlehanded most of the time, which means that if I go overboard, I have bigger problems than my crew pulling me over the transom.
Instead of the main sheet to raise a person, you might be able to use a adjustable trap to lift someone high enough to pull them on board. At least they would be attached to the boat.
The tethers may be needed at night, but I have visions of Peter Panning at good speed and having that tether pull up tight before I hit the water. We stuffed it one time and when I came up I was at the end of my trap wire above the mast. We flew about 50 feet thru the air. I'm not sure I want that tether stopping me at 25 feet. My harness has a spring clip on the hook that keeps the dog bone attached to me....At least so far.
The crew should at least be able to stop the boat by themselves.
Hey, Kevin,
I had a dream last night that someone designed a spinnaker snuffer that could double as a people retriever -- lower the pole-and-snuffer and pull the guy up the chute onto the tramp. Probably a few bugs to be worked out.....
Mary,
[color] > a spinnaker snuffer that could double as a people retriever
The best systems are those that are the most versatile
I had Rick (forum administrator) change the name on this thread, since the scope has been getting broader than the original heading, "Women should be banned from the Worrell."
Hi Mary -
Popped his up on the old forum too ,-but thought it might be a timely addition to the discussion from a real life perspective-
Not sure about night legs this year in 03 ,-will double check also and find out, --would hate to wake up early and shove off the beach by myself ,---{joking }
: : Talked to Davis M last evening in St Croi. where its 85 and sunny ,-If your in a Northern climate this may help get you through to spring and the return of sailing season.
most people when they ask questions about the Worrell 1000 ask about the night legs -
Night Sailing -Isle of Palms Leg
Team "Sail for Sight"--Written during the 2001 Worrell 1000
First, many thanks to our excellent ground crew -Bill Wallace and his son -Dave Wallace -from St. Simmons Island GA, THE Surf Sailors, and to David Lennard sailing a great Worrell 1000 race this year .We sailed in some fairly tough conditions during last evenings very fast night leg with gusts into the 20 s and very short steep irregular seas .
- We flew the chute off the beach, leaving Tybee Island GA. around 6 p m, to the sound of bagpipes, and arrived on the beach in Isle of Palms around 12-30, to the sounds of the local night spots blasting music over the waves, this leg was a fast run reaching speeds of up to 22 to 28 on the GPS.
- Through the daylight left we raced along with several good teams including Kirk and Glen, - Team Key Sailing, happy to be in good company going into the darkness and potential dangers of several hours racing ahead.
-Night sailing is unusual in that your sense of sight is largely eliminated, and use of your other senses have to take over, It was overcast, with storms and numerous lightening flashes hitting the water surface illuminating your surrounding area for brief seconds then leaving one temporarily unable to see until the pupils dilate back to the limited light of shore lights miles distant and overcast night. We had one boat close for about an hour during part of the leg to leeward who's silhouette would appear with each flash, --then disappear-We latter learned it was Brian and Jamie who flipped shortly after, but still managed their usual first place leg finish .
-We finished 4th after starting in 10th -we saw several other teams sail very well for the time we stayed close but generally sailing a higher course at higher speeds with a lesser vmg. -Several teams had damage - some loosing their spin halyards, some striking fish turtles or other objects and loosing their rudders, Team Outer Banks with John at the helm and Charles as excellent crew was one--but again not being able to see sea turtles or other objects to take avoiding action as also happened with other teams, -- luck is part of the Worrell race.
-On a humorous note, David caught a fish last evening, it flew up, bounced off Dave and landed on the trampoline nice foot and a half long fish flopping around for a minute before he could catch him and through him back in, seconds later another fish flew up, bounced off Dave’s life jacket and back in off the port side, though I don’t think it was the same fish trying to get back aboard. -Kind of startling when you’re flying along with the chute up at 20 plus at night.
The psychology of night sailing may be the most interesting aspect, the potential for collision plays on your mind, -an unlit channel marker, another boat, or competitor may appear in front of you with only seconds to react, it can be very intense for several hours at 20 plus, steep seas, spray flying, bows stuffing into waves, all while your trying to keep the boat moving at top speed and stay upright, which many teams including Jamie and Brian on Alexander's did not do last night. . -Team Castrol also sailed a great night leg following the lead boats moves finishing 2nd, 3rd was Brendon and Jim,team Lexus Nexus who in a gutsy navigational strategy went out some 12 miles offshore and one gibed to the finish, just as they did the previous year to an excellent leg finish. -Team Tommy Bahama -Alex and Nigel ,also sailed fast to a 5th place night leg finish .We headed for the room and warm dry clothes then back out to the balcony overlooking the beach on Isle of Palms with Brendon Jim and crewc sharing a pizza, and to watch the rest of the fleet finish shortly after , except for 3 with damage and a collision.
- All teams out here are very good and fast, as any that can sail 1000 miles in the open Atlantic have proven themselves to be.
The best advice to any contemplating the race to prepare would be to simply practice sailing at night,
-Set a destination, inform others and contact them by phone when back in safe. Night legs and night sailing are not all like last evening, some night legs are very beautiful with stars, the moon shinning, warm water and smooth seas.
-The night legs are potentially very dangerous , though strangely an element of the Worrell 1000 race I enjoy, high winds seas lightning storms and all.
As Dave can tell you while sailing the night legs keep an eye out for the flying fish and many other potential dangers of this very challenging aspect of distance racing in this crazy extreme race called the Worrell 1000!
-Wish us luck in tonight’s night leg through some big surf around the cape and up to Myrtle Beach, and a safe journey to all.
-All the best -
Carl Roberts
Hi carl..
I just finished reading your post and started to relive the nights. Boy does that get your blood pressure up.I decided to go back through our GPS tracks and found. In 2001 we jibed on layline at 40 miles offshore and 2002 it was 23 miles. The only reason we went that far offshore this year was the leg winds and direction were the same as 2001. In 2001 if you remember we had amazing phosphorescence in the water. they were so bright you could see the bottom of the leward board and read the logos on the boat. See you in Miami in may.
Have a great Christmas and new year...Jim Korkosz
jIM !!!
great to hear from you ,--Happy Holidays !!!
The spirit of the race and racers is the most fasinating aspect ,-overcomming the numerous challenges and dangers involved the experiences shared are something that is unique in this day and age.
We have fly overs in fighter jets by past Worrell partisipants ,-bagpipes playing ,-anthumes sung as we leave the beach ,thousands and thousands following the race worldwide ,--so much fun to be a part of.--Happy to see you in Miami again .
Recall your accounts of that night leg in a near miss with a large cruising yacht 20 miles out . You latter found and contacted the yacht and traded sailing stories ,-Team Lexus Nexus -amazing .Congrates on setting a new leg record last year also . Great racing.
Safety concerns ,--you wear a helmet , and take numerous other safety precausions, think we will see more and more wearing helmets as these boats continue to get more technical and achieve higher speeds and record times .
The new boat -the-Jav ,-is really well made ,-but shorter comparative length, taller mast ,-less buoyant hulls make for a much more physically demanding type of racing in higher wind and sea conditions. -Think we will see many more teams drop out ,-a weather determined factor ,--and much more spread between boats . Those that have been racing them the last year ,-have tuning -back up boats as always have a huge advantage.
With 36 teams and counting it will be a very interesting year for the race .
Hope the Tybee race is a great success also -
-this type of racing is grueling ,and dangerous at times ,
but what a fantastic sailing adventure.
A celebration of the human spirit with kindred souls..
Carl...
It must have been about 9:30 pm. We were ripping along in the 20's about 20 miles offshore. I saw a light in the distance. Brendan and I argued about wheather it was a bouy or boat. As you know the night thing plays with your mind a bit. As we got close enough we saw it was an old cruiser. We I then lit the main up with the flashlight so they knew we were there. We then crossed their stern within 3 feet and heard cheers. Two days later I got an e-mail from the editor of sail mag. He said he knew the race was going by and didn't think he was going to see any boats that far offshore. He thanked us for the fly by and letting them cheer like nascar fans 20 mile offshore.
As far as safety and the helmet... I have to thank sailsafety.com for the gear. they gave us the helmets in 2001 but we did some testing with the old ones and were not very happy with them.. This year they came out with a new style that is very comfortable. I wore it for at least 10 of the legs. There were 2 times this year when I found myself hitting the boat very hard and was glad to have it on.I find that as well as the safety factor it added a great deal of warmth during the night legs. Out of all the people who raced last year. I was surprised when Davis said to me he wished he had one. The racing was so close last year it made the nights even that much more dangerous. I would only hope safety is of greater concern......
I think this year won't be as close with the new boat and all the newbees to the race trying to figure out how to sail it. There are alot of big boat sailors going for it this year and without a great deal of time on a cat I think there will be alot of boat in need of serious repairs. I'm not saying they are not good sailors They have all proven their sailing skills in the big boat world. My advise to them is unless they know how to make a cat go full speed ALL THE TIME. They need to do ALOT of sailing between now and race day. I think there will only be about 18-20 boats come race day.... On another note we are having our "Worrell" baby boy in three weeks...Who ever said you get tired during that race.....
cheers JIM
Congratulations !! --a new little crew .
One of the best times of life , bringing another into this one.
Hope Christeen is doing well at 8 months plus , she will be a wonderfull mom.
So we will expect to see a father -son / daughter team in the 2020 Worrell race .
Really happy New Year . 
Carl