Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor

Awesome news! I have my crew lined up already, team manager is back on board. Now to get the boat ready.....

I think some people are referencing

the talk

that Chuck gave the group prior to the race this past year.

He said, In no uncertain terms, we need 15 or more boats this year to keep this awesome race going BEYOND 2009.

2009 is for sure happening!

(Disclaimer: 15 boats is what I *thought* he said at the meeting. It might actually be higher. Someone please confirm or correct me)

Does it make sense to run it every two years?

With the off year being say the Great Texas race.

Seems like there is a finite number of distance race fans and it's tough to get them to focus on one event a year.

15 boats is a very reasonable min to make for a good race and keep the costs reasonable.

I think a race like the Tybee 500 can work every year but it has to be made easy for people to compete...that will take a lot of effort on the organizer's part...tough bullet to bite when you're still holding down full time jobs.

I believe things like pre-packaged hotel rooms for a set $$, potluck dinners at each stop, planning for RV's, etc. would go a long way. The other thing too is to overcome the appearance that this race is ONLY for the serious-serious sailors. It's the same thing that we talked about our local regattas intimidating people...

The Tybee 500 is not a race to be taken lightly but you do not have to have some crazy level of sailing experience to do it. I did my first one with only three years of sailing experience. It's one of the most friendly stretches of coast you will find in the world and there is almost always a safe beach to your left if you need to bail. Even the last leg to Tybee, though pretty desolate (at worst you may be camping overnight), still has a friendly shoreline should you have a problem.

They had, what?, 28 or so boats the first year? I know where they came from but where did those guys go?

F18 is probably the class that could save this race - all you guys need to do is show up and you'll have your own class. We've had one F18 for the last two years try but neither of them finished? Who will be the first F18 to slide onto the Tybee Island beach in the Tybee500?

If you only let F18's race... do you think the numbers show up?

On the east coast.. you have the Syracuse Tiger Fleet... a growing but small new england fleet, no boats in the mid atlantic and you southern guys.

I am not sure a 500 mile distance race is what floats the 18 foot boat so to speak.

I know of two F18s from NE that are planning to do the race next year, and a third that is seriously talking about it. I certainly prefer the two extra feet of bow, but agree that especially with the international scene it would be beneficial to get a strong F18 class in this race.
(I will not be on an F18 next year, but certainly hope to return on a 20!)

Jake is right about getting the F18s in the race more. The Great Texas is now almost dominated by the F18's. The conditions for the GT do seem to be more favorable to the F18 over the N20 due to generaly higher winds and more reaching conditions but you never know what kind of conditions you're going to get. The N20 cant reach as high as the F18 with the chute up, so that's where the biggest advantage lies. We got rid of the Portsmouth scoring and ran classes for the first time this year and it worked GREAT! I think (from what I have noticed) there is a larger F18 fleet here than on the East Coast. And vice versa for the N20 over there. That may be a big factor. We will be doing the Tybee again in '09 as well as the Great Texas. It is a pretty big undertaking to do both but it is doable. Fuel cost has been the biggest factor. Each race has it's own appeal. Now, I'm taking aplications for a Team Manager and a Pusher. You get a free t-shirt out of the deal.

Lee Wicklund/Team Chums

www.teamchums.com
www.gt300.com

If you only let F-18s race the Tybee (no other boats) it would be the death knell for the race. They've been allowed to race for the last few years and the numbers don't show.So why negate a group that shows, to gamble on a very unsure thing?

Tad,
I talked to Chuck a couple weeks ago and I believe the number that stuck in my head was 18 boats was break even or whatever.
Todd

That's not what I said.

Lee/Team Chums

Who said it should be F18 only?

I have heard the argument that the F18's don't want to come because the I20 is the crowned king of this race...but I don't think that's really the resistance. I think the F18's just need to reach that critical mass class size to where they have a RACE and enjoy themselves.

I think it should be F18 only.

As much as I love the I20, I do not think the class has any growth potential. The race cannot grow if the class does not grow. So far the F18 class isn't exactly exploding, but I do think it has much more potential than the I20 class. IMO keeping the I20s in the race is holding back F18 particiaption, which is holding back the potential of the event.

I also think it should be non-stop with checkpoints, where you must reach each checkpoint within 8 hours of the leader.

In the the last two months I had the opportunity to film alongside two broadcast production teams at the Teva Mountain Games in Vail and the Gorge Games in Hood River OR. While talking about action sports coverage, sailing is not a favorite amongst those I talked with. Most people dont understand it, and dont find it exciting or entertaining to watch.

Throw in tougher sailing (F18s) and non-stop and it gets more interesting. Acutally, Id like to see a couple of kayak and mountain biking legs along the way.

How is it that the I-20 is keeping the F-18's from coming? The F-18's are already allowed. I am very excited about doing this race next year, in it's current format. If the race changed to non-stop with checkpoints, I would not participate.

Brian,

I know you've sailed this race before and know of your extreme sport video experience - so you have a great perspective, but I have to side with Karl on this one as far as our team is concerned. A non-stop race is completely different and becomes a contest of who can sleep less. I don't know if you've ever had the pleasure of a night leg, but I'm not a huge fan of it from a pure sailing perspective. I don't think it would be the same sailors that are participating in the Tybee 500 now that would do a race like that on their own nickel. Which brings up a good point;

1) Do you build a race that provides good viewability and is exciting to the general public?

2) Do you build a race for the racers that provides good racing at a physical and financial pace the average person can handle?

Clearly there are two distinct thoughts here - Almost all sailing has traditionally been very centric to the sailor's wishes (#2 above). However, looking at the success of the iShares cup that runs very unfriendly courses in tight quarters with crappy wind, one could argue that it may be time for us to worry less about what the sailors want but focus on an extreme event that would be appealing to the general public. It's easy to understand a non-stop race. Great to watch but certainly not what a sailing purist would prefer. Heck, NASCAR for that matter is very focused on the spectator trying to keep the race interesting to the general public with their rules (and they've been incredibly successful with this and work in other areas)

Maybe it is time for us to focus on #1...but I'm not sure how you get the sailors to go for it with their budgets and resources that the teams currently competing in the Tybee500 have.

I also don't believe the Tybee500 is strong enough at the moment to dictate a class shift and survive...or maybe that's the new (to us) 20 sitting in my backyard in preparation for 2009 talking.

Does the T500 have awards for each class, or is it

winner take all

? If it is the latter, I can see where the 18 fleet may stay home unless it's guaranteed 5 days of tight high wind reaching...

I have not done the T500, and don't consider it something I'd do without a lot of training/preparation. Yes, it is a

friendly

coast (if you consider 6 foot surf friendly), but conditions can and have gotten pretty extreme. I think I remember only one year that the whole race was a drifter. The rest had at least one leg of 25+ kt winds and crazy waves.

I think the GT and T500, whether deserved or not, fall into the

seasoned sailor/hard core

category.

My informal classification system for Florida distance races goes something like this:

Outright fun - simple preparation/logistics. Forgiving conditions/venue. Good introduction to distance racing:
Hiram's Haul
Mug Race
Delray Drag
Hagar's Run

Semi-Serious - Still mainly fun. Venue is somewhat forgiving. Logistics are a bit more complicated. Some experience helpful:
Macho Man
Miami-Key Largo
Melbourne-Vero run

Serious - Venue is variable. Competition is seasoned and moderately intense. Logistics can be mildly challenging. Some experience needed:
Hogsbreath
Key Largo Steeplechase
RTI Pensacola

Marquis - venue can be extreme. Logistics need specific planning. Competition is top level. Solid experience necessary. Multi-day experience required.
Tybee 500
Great Texas

Jake,

I think your Option #2 will prove the type with the most longevity.

Yes, the iShares cup is proving to be quite the spectator event, but I suspect is has more to do with the boat damage and overall spectacle of these freakish

hobie on steroids

boats in such tight quarters combined with the caliber of sailor onboard.

If it ain't fun for the sailors themselves, I doubt the event will survive unless there are paid staff on the boats.

Endurance races have their proponents. There are plenty of 24 hour car rallies (Sebring comes to mind) that have a devoted following, but not nearly as big as those boxcars that go around in left handed circles at various places. I think product marketing went a long way to move NASCAR into the forefront.

Besides, if a race fitting category #2 is fun enough, the sailors will come. I'd research the past 10 events that were hugely popular (in terms of sailor participation) and really dig in to what makes them successful year over year.

Hrm.

If the N20 class is pushed out of the T500... I'll have to seriously consider continuing to be a catamaran sailor....

for me, its THE reason to own a N20.

Someone brought this up today in a phone call to me...but what about an open 20 class and an open 18 class. No handicap.

It's a bit of a regression and I'm not entirely certain where my opinion lies on it but if we're simply talking about the survival of the Tybee 500 through 2009, I wonder if it doesn't make sense.

But on the other hand, at least for my team, we're becoming increasingly focused on finishing well in the event. I would view racing, for instance, against a Marstrom 20 heads-up (even) as a frustration from the get-go.

It seems to me (and, yes, I am a Tybee newbie), that the N20 is THE boat for the race. Why mess with that? Sure, add an F-18 class, someday, F-18 numbers may surpass the numbers of N20's in the race and that may result in fewer N20's coming, but unit that happens why clump the N20 in with other 20 foot boats? Won't that just piss off the N20 sailors who already have a fleet?

Keep in mind with iShares format they are at or close to there limit in the number of boats they can put on those courses.

Now if the sponsors are willing ot pony up a new boat after every race and the sailors are willing to get singificantly hurt then format will gain in popularity. Who doesn't like to watch good crash where someone tould die... like NASCAR, gawd I hate that analogy.

Don't dump the N20, and yes let the F18's make their presence known when they are ready. I think all it will take is for a top F18 team to start a grass routes movement.

Brain,
If you build it, market it, and make it happen I think you could have a great idea here. I don't see it replacing anything that currently exists, but rather a new entity of itself. It would definately be a much different group, but then again, the intention wouldn't be to replace anything. I personally would enjoy the intensity of an event like this, but there would certainly need to be some sort of significant draw beyond the experience. One thing that would disappear is the commeroderie between competitors that develops during an event like the Tybee. By having the off the water time together, I have made some great friends who are a huge part of the reason I come back year after year.
Chris

Theres no doubt that there would be some pain involved in F18 only. Jake just bought a new boat, Jay has three, but if your looking at a longer term strategy for building the race I still think its the right way to go even if its a pain in the short term.

A format change to non-stop may keep some people away too, sure, but the challenge may also attract others. As Jake said, you can currently try this race without some crazy level of experience, going non-stop would certainly up the crazy level which makes it more interested to non-sailors (ans sponsors). Sailing 60-100 miles a day, sounds pretty tough, doing it non-stop, thats crazy! Crazy factor = good.

I think this is a question of what we all want for/from the race. Sponsorship? I think Chuck wants more, I think the teams want more, I know I would like more from a media perspective to increase coverage.

I think the benefit of viewability for the public (and sponsors) as far as on the beach is minimal and not very attractive to sponsors. A few hundred or even thousand people on a beach is very little advertising.

I think you build a tough race that is extremely challenging. That means people quitting, hitting their breaking point, and some excelling. Great stories, and its not just about sailing.

I am absolutely not trying to pretend Im an expert here, and I appreciate everything Chuck B has done, Im just brainstorming on how to build the race.

Adventure Online TV last quarter averaged 60,000 video plays per month. Sailing is a small part of that stat. Many of our distribuion partners have asked for less sailing, more other stuff.

Between my normal job and Adventure Online TV, I wont be starting any new races. I not sure we have the base to have competing races anyway.

Okay, how about a non-stop (with checkpoint) race from Tybee BACK to Key Largo? Starting the day after T500.

Crews could opt to sail back or charter their boat to another crew willing to do that race. Then they wouldn't have to trailer the boats as much.

I would guess the race back would be slower, since there might be more upwind work...

WHat caused the demise of

Eco Challenge

? For a while, it was a hit on Discovery Channel - drama, injury, etc. Two or three seasons (excellent cinematography, too!) that (may have) sparked an adventure racing sub-culture that exists today.

I would think something like Eco-Challenge has the same difficulties sailing faces - hard to film, not spectator friendly (except for checkpoints), sponsorship ROI is hard to track, etc....

So people want more injuries & scantily clad subjects (male & female)?

There was a movie a while back (the name escapes me) with Alan Alda wherein the three secrets of great cinema were outlined:
- Defiance of authority
- Destruction of property
- People taking off their clothes

I think the movie was lame, but those points were well taken! <img src=

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You could count me out of a non-stop race of that length.

I like Crazy.

I don't like dying.

Also, how would you get video from racers who never stop?

Maybe it's just me, but I fail to see the logic in dumping the I-20 in favor of an all F-18 event. The F-18's have been invited for the past two years. Each year only 1 has shown up. I can see making that change when so many F-18's are on the line that the vastly outnumbered I-20's are in the way, but until that time comes, it makes no sense at all!

The only way they'd beat the 20's if there were none on the line!!!!!

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Karl, this is based on many comments from sailors who have done the race that above all, they want to be first to the beach. As long as the 20 footer is an option, it will be chosen.

My belief is that by taking away the choice, your investing in a class which has a greater chance at overall growth.

No, no, no. My drive to start the T500 is 14 hours. It's only a 4.5 hour drive back home from the finish. I don't want two 14 hour drives!