Dispelling a Tybee 500 Rumor

You would still have to have checkpoints, and video crews would need to be assigned to individual teams.

Jake, You could always just sail back to Tybee again. <img src=

alt=

/>

Or start at Tybee, go south, then go north.

I dunno...there's something silly about sailing 1000 miles and ending up at the same place you started.

Hi Lee,
That post wasn't directed at You, sorry if it came off like that. It was in reference to Mark's question.
Now back to the action
If the F-18s want to come and have their own class they can. They don't.(except for Moose/Burd, and Layline/Zhik) And as much as we want sailing cats in distance races to be a mainstream, sticker clad, loved by everybody game it ain't gonna happen.Your average Joe spectator isn't smart enough to get 1/3 of what's going on. If you do anything to make this less fun and more costly to the competitors , they're not gonna keep doin' it.Without competitors you've got nothing to sell and nothing to watch. As much as alot of my friends in this crowd hate the name Mike Worrell ,you still have to look at what he did and what Chuck has done and see what changes worked and what didn't. Chuck has offered to let in a few different classes of boats,(F-18, Tornado, Eagle?,etc.)to come and play, they don't bring the numbers.Mike tried to switch up boats in the W-1000 and it worked the first time, but not so much the second.
Brian you do a fabulous job, and as good as you do it ,there is no way you can cover it like you can mountain biking or kayaking.It's not physically possible. So to compare the popularity of racing cats to those is sort of apples and oranges.Making it non-stop would be even harder for coverage.
I'm not opposed to switching to another boat but I'm not gonna go backwards to a less capable boat. Everyone that I've talked to that has distance raced the F-18 and the I-20 said they liked the extra 2 feet.That is not a slam to the F-18s so don't get your panties in a wad, it's just not the boats strong point.Most all of the ideas tossed out there are not new, this stuff has been tried.
In my opinion the Tybee should have classes for the boats that bring sufficient numbers to have a class(like it's set up now), you can't force it.
In conclusion if you elect me president I'll make all your dreams come true , everybody will get to be a rockstar like JC, two catamarans in every garage and cold beer in every cooler.
Thank You, and goodnight!

Todd

Really its just a conspiracy to get rid of the heavy teams.

This is an interesting thread. I attempted to enter my Hobie 18 last year. My boat is very close to being an F18 but has curved beams. I was told I couldn't enter because if I placed well some F18 sailor would get upset and protest. I just wished to do a nostalgia kind of thing with my old sailing buddy J.D. Solomon (Tybee Vet). We thought it would be cool to compete on a '81 18 magnum that is upgraded with all the go fast goodies available. My assumption is that the F18 guys know that their boats cannot take repeated beachings or lemans starts. Especially the Tiger sailors. The I20 is a beast and can take alot of abuse. The TheMightyHobie18 is also a tank that can handle much abuse. F18 boats are not built to withstand this kind of abuse.

Why not open it up to all catamarans, old and new. A prior to race inspection of all older rigs and you've got something. If I can show up and race what I bring then I'm all for it. If I must own or charter a I20 then I'm not for it.

Absolutely untrue and completely false.

The ONLY reason that the F18's did not make it to the finish (at least this year) was lack of boat-specific spares. Had more F18 teams showed up, finding spares would not have been a problem. If you think that the N20's don't need plenty of these parts, then you're incorrect. The only difference is that when someone needs their 2nd spare daggerboard, if they're on a N20 there are 9 teams from which they can ask around. If they are on a F18, then they are on their own.

Its not fair to say that the F18's break more, when they don't. Hell, the N20's took PLENTY of carnage this year.

I wouldn't want to be on the beach waiting for a H16 to finish a 120nm leg in 5 knots of downwind breeze.

Would you?

The reason F18's don't come is that they will not win; the N20's are faster.

Sponsers won't understand

first F18

. They understand

FIRST

.

People outside the US will not buy an N20 to compete. I'm not aware of a pool of charter boats.

If the race wants to expand and get people outside the US to come and play, it has to be something other than N20's.

Whats the most popular high performance 2 up boat with a Kite; The F18.

Really its just a conspiracy to get rid of the heavy teams.

I knew it!!!!

p.s. I'm lighter than I look ,Hot air don't weigh much.

The reason F18's don't come is that they will not win

That is a pretty lame excuse. This year I crewed on a boat, next year I will be skippering for the first time. I will not win....I know that, but I'm still going. This race is as much an adventure and test of will as a race.

Really its just a conspiracy to get rid of the heavy teams.

I knew it!!!!

p.s. I'm lighter than I look ,Hot air don't weigh much.

And those spindly tweezer legs offset some of the upper padding.

What is the

grand prize"?

I knew it!!!!

p.s. I'm lighter than I look ,Hot air don't weigh much.

And those spindly tweezer legs offset some of the upper padding.

Sounds like the Ooompah Looompah is jealous!

Pride in accomplishmnet
overcoming challenges
commraderie
friendship
bragging rights
etc

No doubt there is the adventure pool of sailors, but there is also the there to win pool.

Windyhill, you need to just show up on the line with the TheMightyHobie18, official or not. Hey, you'll even save the entry fee.

I can get most of those things going to the toilet!

(just kiddin)

Ok, my Tybee cred is very short, but:

1) If people are not coming to this race because they will not be first to the beach, then in my opinion they're talking smack and making excuses. These people should stick to OD regattas where no other classes are in sight to be happy, just to make sure no other boats are faster. In the first couple of attempts at this race most competitors list their goals as 1) Finishing and 2) not being last. Being first to the beach and winning is on everybody's mind, but if you stay home because you can't (especially if it is a boat class thing), then maybe you should stay home.

2) Sponsors for this race (as it exists now, anyway) in my experience are there for the ride, not the win. Given that almost all forms of racing has different classes, sponsors do understand first in class, and there are examples in racing to make a good argument. Further, for this race, media coverage in mainstream magazines and web coverage is where to make your case for sponsors - people watching from the beach won't matter. If your sponsors are in your home market, you need to make a case that the race being out of that market can still benefit them.

3) OoLaLa won on a chartered boat. People outside the US have raced the N20 in Tybee and Worrell. I suspect that if a team from abroad needed to find a boat for the race deals could be struck. Even if it was F-18, would the interest be such that people would ship their F-18s to the US for the race? If not, you're back to the charter boat scenario, and as noted there are far fewer F-18s here.

4) As pointed out, the F-18 scene on the East Coast is almost non-existent. Few people on the Chesapeake are even interested in them. The F-16 class seems to the be next high interest point, IMO.

commraderie?? What are you in the navy?

The reason Mike and I don't come is there has not been more than one other F18 sign up to do the race in the last to years. We don't want to spend all the money to do the race and only race against one other boat (no fun). Chuck has said he won't use portsmouth numbers like they do in the Great Texas.

As far as not stoping at check points uless you have a camera crew for each team it would not work. People are not going to sit 8 hours on the beach to watch some boat sail in and out. The first check point might be ok but the boats would get way too spread out at the end. At the finish line the RC and spectators could be there for 8 hours (good luck finding an RC).

Can't go to F18 in the near future.

You would have maybe 6 teams put an F18 on the line at most. The European's won't ship their boats because they would have to be without their F18 for a good part of the season. Probably get it back in Mid June sometime. I doubt they really want to do that. Also who would pay for the container. Last I checked it was 10K for a container back and forth.

Just not feasable for the F18 crowd.

They have a base of N20 sailors that are committed to the race. They get 10-12. That's a pretty good amount when you consider that's about the number they get at Nationals (15-18).

And yes the top F18 sailers don't want to be last to the beach and miss all the press.

And no the sailers don't want to go back and compete against M20's and Tornado's and Supercats.

The thing that keeps me from competing is the money.
Boat 20K
Race 5K

If I was sponsored for my expenses I'd do it in a second. But 5K is a lot of dough that can go toward a whole season of sailing.

I did it once. I did it for the competition, adventure, history.

I'd buck up the boat or the 5K but not both.

Mike Hill

The way I see it there are several issues and they need to be addressed systematically and objectively.

1. First is the issue that participation needs to be higher than it has been recently for the race to be viable. What are the numbers? 15 ~ 30?

2. Assuming this as a true statement, what existing boats and racers are candidates and how do you draw them out?

3. With only the I-20 platform and possibly the F-18 as eligible that limits it pretty much to owners of these boats.

4. Several F-18 proponents have indicated the F-18 cannot hope for line honors, so why try.

5. There are many other fast beach cats that might come out if allowed to.

6. I find it hard to believe that with these stated goals…

Quote:________________________________________
Pride in accomplishment
overcoming challenges
commraderie
friendship
bragging rights
etc

…that most teams are in it just for absolute line honors.

7. Obviously the I-20 needs to stay as the prime candidate for “top dog” since they have established a solid place in this event. It would make no sense to disallow the I-20 in hopes of drawing in a bigger fleet of F-18’s.

8. I would think that by using the I-20 rating as the standard (59.3 or whatever), that any boat rating higher should be considered. An arbitrary denial clause can be used in the case of any obvious attempt to bring in a “ringer”.

9. There could be two levels (20’ and 18’) using the I-20 and F-18 as the standards. Any cat rating above these numbers would race scratch in that class.

10. Limits on suitability would be applied to types of boats that, by design, would not be able to maintain a reasonable pace. Again, this would be totally arbitrary and based on common sense.

11. As an outsider I am reluctant to recommend changing anything other than fine tuning what already appears to be a very successful race. The 6 day format and general course appear to work well. Why change that? Changing the race itself won’t draw more boats. Making more types eligible just might.

6. I find it hard to believe that with these stated goals…

Quote:________________________________________
Pride in accomplishment
overcoming challenges
commraderie
friendship
bragging rights
etc

…that most teams are in it just for absolute line honors.

These are MY goals. I think each team that shows up for the race has their own set of goals and winning is certainly a goal for many of the teams that show up.

Those were my goals the first time I did the Worrell 1000, but after several distance races and thousands of dollars I would like to be able to win. The Great Texas uses the portsmouth rating and it seems to work for them. The first year of the GT there were a lot of I20's and now it is mostly F18 . If the Tybee 500 would use the portsmouth rating I think it would get more F18's and maybe more boats from overseas.

I talked with Chuck briefly last night (I had to cut it short) but Chuck says that if you guys want to man up and sail a boat that's ready available, sailed often, and has plenty of spares available, show up with Hobie 16s and hush!

(PS...that was ~mostly~ in jest).

He does think this is a good conversation.

OK...now I guess we need to start training...........!

Looks like the Great Texas has moved away from portsmouth (good idea IMO). Using a handicap system for a distance race at this level especially DPN would be a big step backwards.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showthre...true#Post154006

I can just see the Sean and the whole beach crew groaning. 😛

Thats basically the stance Chuck took with me early on in '07. As the race got closer he changed his opinion. I completely understood then and now.
Brian, we could have entered but would have received no support from the organizing group and in the event of an emergency would have been on our own. Didn't seem like a good idea to us.
Tad, spare parts for the TheMightyHobie18 are available everywhere. I have 3 complete carcasses now. 2 spins and poles, 8 daggers, 4 pairs of rudders and 3 masts. What more could I need to enter safely?
I do like how this discussion is going. Any boat of comparable speed could be entered. Could run a shorter course for slower classes to finish at the 4th checkpoint for example. Many options to consider. It is an expensive event to enter but we found sponsers that liked our nostalgia approach. They were excited about two guys over 40 racing a boat that was 25 years old. Good advertising opportunity for the right companies on the east coast.

Iron men and plastic boats . . .

If you can bring all those parts, great.

However, thats not what the F18 team had. Had there been more of an F18 fleet presence, then the pool of spares grows geometrically. Its common sense.