Todd,
I got so excited about the thought of a 1000 mile race - it forced me to finally join the bloody forum!
Jake - we are in!!!
Frank
Pensacola to Miami
Checkpoints, East point, Cedar key, Sarasota, Naples, Key West, Key Largo, Miami...
I Dont know how close to 1000 miles that is, if its short by much you could always throw a leg into and out of Tampa Bay somewhere, and it'd be a great race. The tactical options in terms of routing on the west coast of Fla. add a totally different challenge versus the drag race up the east coat. Cut the corner? Stay near the beach, offshore, inshore? etc..Plus the logistics are simpler given how big the community of beach cat sailors in the start and finish areas is, and in Florida generally. It may lack some of the extreme conditions that you tend to get around hatteras, but getting to key west and then to Miami is big water and unpredictable.
I got so excited about the thought of a 1000 mile race - it forced me to finally join the bloody forum!
Jake - we are in!!!
Frank
Oh lord, here we go! Todd - you can put us in the
confirmed serious
column!
the Marco - Key West leg sounds like a potential problem area to me. These are coastal beachcats we're talking about, and a straight shot to Key West involves sailing beyond sight of land. I don't think this would bode well if something broke 1/2 way to KW.
Maybe put a check-point in Cape Sabel and another in Key West, you'd have the option of running to the east or west side of the keys
As for
manning
the checkpoints, would a lock-box with a log-book suffice? or Ping your GPS?
Maybe put a check-point in Cape Sabel and another in Key West, you'd have the option of running to the east or west side of the keys
As for
manning
the checkpoints, would a lock-box with a log-book suffice? or Ping your GPS?
Are you volunteering to hang out at Cape Sable? It's a lonely place.
to be honest, I've never seen Cape Sabel in daylight. We have bumped the keel once or twice at night in that general vicinity as a yute on our family boat back in the 70's
Oh, isn't that area west of the Keys the Navy's exercise area for the fighter jets out of that base down there? It would suck to get nuked while trying to make Key West check point (would probably leave a mark, too)
No, Cape Sable is the very tip of the Florida peninsula. It's a bad place to hang really. Nice beaches, a tidal creek and Lake Ingraham. Good place to camp.
Shark River is just north and a popular anchorage.
http:/
Yes I would do it in a heartbeat... but take a lesson from the worell and the tybee AND watertribe races. www.watertribe.com
IMO, don't waste time arguing about OD crap. I'm with mike, run what you brung FOR REAL. As long as your making the competitors manage their own race, make a token prize for everyone that dares to enter from FBI (first bich in) to DFL (dead f-ing last). Run your 4ksb, snark, kayak with sail, puddle duck, Aquacat, H-16, R33, F-20 who cares I mean really. If you want endurance racers interest or to spark new interest, you'll have to leave the OD table and talk to some wall flowers.
Also, FYI the watertribe is already running great races in florida and NC like the North Carolina Challenge and the Everglades Challenge. They are TRUE run what you brung and it is awesome. EC 2011 had 90 entrants!!!! If I never race OD again that would be ok.
-Alan
www.sailnaway.blogspot.com
IMO, don't waste time arguing about OD crap. I'm with mike, run what you brung FOR REAL. As long as your making the competitors manage their own race, make a token prize for everyone that dares to enter from FBI (first bich in) to DFL (dead f-ing last). Run your 4ksb, snark, kayak with sail, puddle duck, Aquacat, H-16, R33, F-20 who cares I mean really. If you want endurance racers interest or to spark new interest, you'll have to leave the OD table and talk to some wall flowers.
Also, FYI the watertribe is already running great races in florida and NC like the North Carolina Challenge and the Everglades Challenge. They are TRUE run what you brung and it is awesome. EC 2011 had 90 entrants!!!! If I never race OD again that would be ok.
And to that point, I don't think anyone does this with an eye on the prize money. Most of us are realistic enough to admit that we stand very little chance of earning it.
Part of me wants to see OD but I have to admit it would be more fun doing it with more people OD or not. Even in the watertribe events, everyone finds their own challenge within the boat limits and classes will be born within the group. Alan has a point.
And how'd that work out... not too good.
Didnt Randy win the Worrell one year with a custom built cat with racks? That was my reference.
I believe he ate it in the surf on the second wave after the start, but I could be wrong.
IMO, don't waste time arguing about OD crap. I'm with mike, run what you brung FOR REAL. As long as your making the competitors manage their own race, make a token prize for everyone that dares to enter from FBI (first bich in) to DFL (dead f-ing last). Run your 4ksb, snark, kayak with sail, puddle duck, Aquacat, H-16, R33, F-20 who cares I mean really. If you want endurance racers interest or to spark new interest, you'll have to leave the OD table and talk to some wall flowers.
Also, FYI the watertribe is already running great races in florida and NC like the North Carolina Challenge and the Everglades Challenge. They are TRUE run what you brung and it is awesome. EC 2011 had 90 entrants!!!! If I never race OD again that would be ok.
It's not my decision to make, but I have raced against a few of the
open
class Worrell boats a long time ago and the monstrosities built were not only costly but dangerous. I think an open class would certainly be a spectacle but would not drive up participation. The watertribe races ,as awesome as they are, strike me as 1/2 race 1/2 obstacle course. The one offs built for that would be far different from what would be built for this. I'd venture to guess the attached pic would be on the tame side of what would get built.
Haha, ok. To each his own.
Costly and dangerous sounds like every other interesting thing one can do with ones life nowadays. I for one cannot afford a OD boat that can do what I want. But I can build one. Driving a car is dangerous too. It is lack of experience that is dangerous. Hence the reason for waivers and self managed races. I think open class by definition drives up participation. If you don't want home built boats in the race that's cool too. I just think it would be a cooler race that more people would enter. Run what you brung doesn't mean that OD cant enter or have a
class
its just ALL inclusive. A race like this will be as much about the boat as the sailors. Breaking down in a million dollar carbon eggshell is not fast and neither is staying awake for 11 days straight. Those watertribe races have a 50% finish rate for a reason and it's not because half of the boats break down.
-Alan
Ok, looks like we have ground crew that is chomping at the bit to want to do it with us. If it happens, Team Chums will be at the start for sure. OD, Open or what the f' ever it is, it's on with us.
Beware of Lee. He's just returned from a land where the men are men, (and the sheep know it).
Costly and dangerous sounds like every other interesting thing one can do with ones life nowadays. I for one cannot afford a OD boat that can do what I want. But I can build one. Driving a car is dangerous too. It is lack of experience that is dangerous. Hence the reason for waivers and self managed races. I think open class by definition drives up participation. If you don't want home built boats in the race that's cool too. I just think it would be a cooler race that more people would enter. Run what you brung doesn't mean that OD cant enter or have a
class
its just ALL inclusive. A race like this will be as much about the boat as the sailors. Breaking down in a million dollar carbon eggshell is not fast and neither is staying awake for 11 days straight. Those watertribe races have a 50% finish rate for a reason and it's not because half of the boats break down.
-Alan
Alan,
If you can't afford a used N-20 or F-18 how can you build something faster for less. If you can, you're missing out on a great business opportunity.
My idea of dangerous is 18-20 ft. boat with 10' beams and 8-10' aluminum frame racks on each side. With all the righting moment they will pitchpole and with a 15' drop to the mast it's just a matter of how bad you're gonna be hurt, not if.
I guess cost of a OD boat in this case includes assumed cost of regattas which is the point of owning one. Anyway, its beside the point. You may be right about a great business opportunity but this is not a goal of mine. I didn't claim faster for less. Only
what i wanted
. It might be faster, don't know yet.
Racks can be dangerous...So what? I agree a boat like the one you describe could be a nightmare but for this theoretical long race, where the goal is to finish. Pitch-pole causing racks don't make a lot of sense since pitch-poling and getting hurt is also not fast. All races have to have some rules. A simple box rule for multi's in a open style race where anything goes could weed out the crazies right? F18's and N20's pitchpole all the time given the right conditions. Is the only argument against an open format one of safety or liability?
Maybe compare to economics (as much as I hate economics) Run what you brung being akin to a free market. Innovation, interest, unique solutions, tinkering. All things sailors can't get enough of.
But like I said, have an OD
class
sure for those who like to race man to man. In the end, 30 or 40 boats with an open class too is better than 10 OD's right? Were talking about interest here.
Todd,
Sorry, I've thrown this off topic.
What I meant was....
I'm in
.
-Alan
As I said before it's not up to me. As far as having a box rule, I'm not against that either, I sail an A cat and love the development. I've also got some plans and a bunch of parts to steroid up a N-20. I do know for a fact if you open everything up the mainstay racers on
normal
boats will say screw it. It's a race for a cash prize. If it was my race and my decision to make ,I'd have an unlimited class (run what you brung rule/ box rule) that was not eligible for the prize or a portion of it based on how many there were( assuming entry fees make up the pot), and an OD class that has to meet a minimum rating( like Steeplechase, so it's timely and not a 3 week race) that would compete for the prize or the other portion.
That's not my argument at all. My argument is you drive away more competitors than you get.As an example, Many of the stock F-18 guys (and there's alot of them) are not going to race straight up against a F20c or M-20 tricked out with racks ,custom sails and other goodies. The track record shows they should ala GT-300 (Sorry Mike <img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" /> ) but alot would not even attempt it. For me it would be about numbers. Historically OD distance races have had larger numbers than open development races. It's just numbers. I'd love to see the machines that would come out of such a race (open) but unless I was on one I wouldn't race an OD boat against one either.
Sorry, I've thrown this off topic.
What I meant was....
I'm in
.
-Alan
Excellent. Now to get you on my team.
p.s. I put alot of thought in to that last post that I didn't need to write.
Costly and dangerous sounds like every other interesting thing one can do with ones life nowadays. I for one cannot afford a OD boat that can do what I want. But I can build one. Driving a car is dangerous too. It is lack of experience that is dangerous. Hence the reason for waivers and self managed races. I think open class by definition drives up participation. If you don't want home built boats in the race that's cool too. I just think it would be a cooler race that more people would enter. Run what you brung doesn't mean that OD cant enter or have a
class
its just ALL inclusive. A race like this will be as much about the boat as the sailors. Breaking down in a million dollar carbon eggshell is not fast and neither is staying awake for 11 days straight. Those watertribe races have a 50% finish rate for a reason and it's not because half of the boats break down.
-Alan
Alan,
If you can't afford a used N-20 or F-18 how can you build something faster for less. If you can, you're missing out on a great business opportunity.
My idea of dangerous is 18-20 ft. boat with 10' beams and 8-10' aluminum frame racks on each side. With all the righting moment they will pitchpole and with a 15' drop to the mast it's just a matter of how bad you're gonna be hurt, not if.
Todd - you act like you've never seem him build something. Dude's got mad skillz. http://www.sailnaway.blogspot.com/
My favorite Alan construction pic has the best of both (actually, three) worlds:
![[Linked Image]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3QnXlXz_aCs/TlUn615rBzI/AAAAAAAAJUs/0Ha_5xYeeLo/s1600/IMGP0752.JPG)
You're going to have a tough time sailing Playstation since it became a camera platform for Morning Light.
To confirm....Team Seacats = in. We're already in the planning/scheming stage and most of the personnel have expressed commitment.
Costly and dangerous sounds like every other interesting thing one can do with ones life nowadays. I for one cannot afford a OD boat that can do what I want. But I can build one. Driving a car is dangerous too. It is lack of experience that is dangerous. Hence the reason for waivers and self managed races. I think open class by definition drives up participation. If you don't want home built boats in the race that's cool too. I just think it would be a cooler race that more people would enter. Run what you brung doesn't mean that OD cant enter or have a
class
its just ALL inclusive. A race like this will be as much about the boat as the sailors. Breaking down in a million dollar carbon eggshell is not fast and neither is staying awake for 11 days straight. Those watertribe races have a 50% finish rate for a reason and it's not because half of the boats break down.
-Alan
Alan,
If you can't afford a used N-20 or F-18 how can you build something faster for less. If you can, you're missing out on a great business opportunity.
My idea of dangerous is 18-20 ft. boat with 10' beams and 8-10' aluminum frame racks on each side. With all the righting moment they will pitchpole and with a 15' drop to the mast it's just a matter of how bad you're gonna be hurt, not if.
Todd - you act like you've never seem him build something. Dude's got mad skillz. http://www.sailnaway.blogspot.com/
My favorite Alan construction pic has the best of both (actually, three) worlds:
I know he's got mad skills, I'm an Alan fan. Skills or not you couldn't get the materials to build a faster (my words not Alan's) than F-18 or N-20 boat for the cost of a used F-18n or N-20. And it is a race so why would you want to build something slower unless you were testing some new ideas, which would be my guess on his plan.
Now if I can build a monster set of cat trax for the R33, and get a team of pushers - it's game on!!!
You know Chris and I are in! Bet Dave L can build em......although, those trax might be a little scary........
Excellent. Now to get you on my team.
Ok, so now I should open the floor to bids for my skipper or crew skills for this as of yet theoretical race to help pay for my less expensive than OD boat.
Also, I'm gonna go ahead and say that she's gonna be at least as fast as an F-18 or a N-20. BAM!
Excellent. Now to get you on my team.
Ok, so now I should open the floor to bids for my skipper or crew skills for this as of yet theoretical race to help pay for my less expensive than USED OD boat.
Also, I'm gonna go ahead and say that she's gonna be at least as fast as an F-18 or a N-20. BAM!
Right on.
Theoretical smack talk for a theoretical race.
This is the tri in your blog, I take it?
Looks awesome.So what will you have in it after hardware sails and everything? And will it beat Scizzors?
Oh yeah, I fixed your post.
I haven't added it up yet but i work at a boat shop so i do a lot of dumpster diving.
Will it beat sizzor? I don't know. Like you said it's an obstacle course. Randy's gonna switch to a kayak for the river so he'll be faster there but I will be 2^up so I should be able to get there first if I can go nonstop. Who knows. By river I mean rock-garden http:/
F-18 skipper looking to crew this race. 6'1" 240 can fly in and bring my own gear. Any teams looking for a third?
I got confused. What's the course again? Miami to Virginia, around the FL Penninsula, or everyone ganging up on the Everglades challenge?
Come to think of it, I'd suspect that a good gauge of participation in
the race
would be who enters other distance stuff like GT300, Steeplechase, RTI pensacola, etc.
Might also be a good way to
cross-sell
this proposed race to other similarly experienced and interested teams.
Can I sail my Stiletto 23? Please? It holds so much more beer than a Nacra <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />