Not calling any of that a bad thing, but I really have a hard time calling what we do a
sport for athletes
when the winners of major regattas are often over 30 (sometimes 40 or 50) and they are beating
kids
in their 20s who are in far better shape (at least physically).
Two words......Dana Torres!
With modern high aspect ratio boards you get more lift less drag.
Ding
is that lift thing specific to Dana Torres?
I personally think that sailing is a fringe
sport
anyway, just like bobsledding. Yes, you need to be able to hike/trap and sheet in (push off/steer a bobsled), but do the best
athletes
really win? Sailing to win has more to do with experience, strategy and tactics.
Not calling any of that a bad thing, but I really have a hard time calling what we do a
sport for athletes
when the winners of major regattas are often over 30 (sometimes 40 or 50) and they are beating
kids
in their 20s who are in far better shape (at least physically).
If anyone really cared to make any sport ONLY about the athletes, all equipment would be SMOD, including skates, bobsleds, wetsuits, ski goggles, etc.
Just my two cents. I'm quite sure it'll not be popular...
Mike
You've obviously never crewed on a Tornado. You need a young strong athlete in the front to make that boat go.
That woman is my hero! Along with few other old F%$@ still getting it done.
I would not agree. The years we sailed our Tornado it was not the physical requirements which made us slower than the really good guys, but knowlegde and skill. I would definately say that sailing and beachcat racing is not an especially atlethic sport (flame suit put firmly on!).
Swapping boats every olympiad would make it so much harder for underfunded teams to stay in the game. Would be great to have an endless supply of cheap boats, but either way somebody are paying for those boats.
All that aside, I am much more interested in what hopes and ambitions John have for the Multihull Commission and who else will be on it. What mandate it will have etc.
To work the negative angle: The whole idea is probably just a cookie thrown to the multihull community to raise morale and faith with ISAF. Council will keep its ways/power and that is the real problem with ISAF. Fact is that multihulls was in the games until ISAF Council threw all reccomendations and group submissions out the door with multihulls.
Hope I dont get you down John, I am sure you will do a splendid job, if it is possible.
ISAF announced at the last meeting that they were setting up the Commission, but didn't get into details of it's purpose. The scuttlebutt is that ISAF suspects ( <img src=
alt=
/> ) multihulls are underrepresented and this may be a first step toward bringing back the ISAF Multihull Committee. Capron asked me if I could sit on it and represent the US multihull community. I brought up other candidates for the job that I thought would do well, but Jim expressed a desire to have a rep that was in a position to get feedback from all classes of multihulls. US SAILING's position on multihulls in the Olympics is unchanged - the OSC says they still want to see a men's and a women's multihull event, and they want to end the Council practice of voting on individual events and vote on full slates instead.
Finally. Water has a way of finding its own level. Many thanks to the IOC for standing resolutely around their prior 'full slate' position. This position strongly discourages the MNA equipment politicking embodied by the Estoril decision, and the manipulation equipment agendas. Bravo!
ps: MH'ers, and Mfrs. We have 4yrs to GET OURSELVES ORGANIZED!
I would not agree. The years we sailed our Tornado it was not the physical requirements which made us slower than the really good guys, but knowlegde and skill. I would definately say that sailing and beachcat racing is not an especially atlethic sport (flame suit put firmly on!).
Sorry but anyone who thinks they could compete against the olympic Tornado sailors without having a crew not in great physical shape has never raced at that level. The sheet loads on the Tornado are much much greater than F18, N20, etc. and in order to get and keep the boat in the (narrow) groove requires great strength. And in order to tack and jibe as efficiently as the top guys do requires a lot of physical abilities that you tend to lose with age (and cases of beer).
Sorry to derail the topic, but to think Olympic Tornado sailing does not require great physical fitness puts down the great athletes that actually do it because they truly are athletes.
The sheet loads on the Tornado are much much greater than F18, N20, etc. and in order to get and keep the boat in the (narrow) groove requires great strength.
I've sailed both N-20 and a Tornado ,and the T had lighter sheet loads. F-18, I have no idea, but maybe it would be lighter. The mainsheet on the Ts I sailed on ,was always exotic and higher ratio. You musta had a cheap skipper or your ratchets were turned off.
I agree with you on the athlete part though. If brute strength is all that makes athletes then I guess powerlifters are the only true athletes. <img src=
alt=
/>
I guess we have different definitions of athlete. From Wikipedia: An athlete is a sportsperson in a general sense or specifically a competitor in athletics (track and field) events.
So sailing a beachcat definately comes within that definition, even with a beer gut <img src=
alt=
/>
For me the definition of an athlete have always been very narrow. Olympic level: gymastiasts, decathlon competitors, wrestlers etc. have been my definition of an athlete. Compared to those sports sailing have not struck me as demanding a lot of athletisism. I suppose we all have different views on this as the definition is quite broad.
It is not pure strength and stamina that makes a large beachcat go fast, it is 90% skill in my opinion. Enough strength to run the main and spi, and the stamina to do it for two races a day is enough. The manouvers are mostly about coordination, timing and agility but knowing how to do them are again the most important aspect in my opinion. If you sail at that level you sail so much that you will have the strength and stamina you need in my opinion. Being fit helps you go faster, but beeing super-fit dont give much of an advantage. The sharp end of the Tornado fleet going to Athens is not exactly young anymore.
soggysailor, perhaps you could share a bit of your experience in racing beachcats? Sounds like you have been at an olympic level since you are so certain?
I have a background with diverse martial arts and rock climbing, sports I consider more physically demanding if you push the limit than beachcat racing. Knowlegde and skill on the other hand plays a far larger role in beachcat racing in my experience. I have had my a$$ handed to me by the best, guys who sails a lot in all conditions. Not becouse they worked the sheets and the boat harder than us, but they knew exactly how to use their gear and bodies. Perhaps we should make a new thread for this..
what is the advantage of daggers over centerboards?
No slot to cover, easier to access and maintain, lighter, stronger, cheaper and faster.
Faster? how so?
And what are the advantages to centerboards?
if there are so many advantages to daggers... why would they design/use centerboards on an elite level?
That is the way the boat was originally built...part of the design.
They still work pretty well and generally retract if you hit something.
That is the way the boat was originally built...part of the design.
They still work pretty well and generally retract if you hit something.
DON'T always rely on centerboards pivoting up. First time I sailed H17 before I learned I snapped the end off at Deep South coming in. ALWAYS retract them when coming into beach or shore. Learned the hard way, it was costly.
Doug
Doug
Thanks Doug. I had a hobie 18 for a few years and learned what happens when boards meet the ground.... Look, i can fly... Tinkerbelle... I believe!
Now that i have centerboards... i am still VERY careful about shallows and such...
the SMOD rule was designed and promoted by a manufacturer for the company. Its been swallowed hook line and sinker by the great unwashed in IOC/ISAF
The big question is can we believe what US sailing and ISAF say?
In the past both entities and spoke-people are less than truthful.
Olympics should prove the might of the sailor, not the tricked out boat. The jockey, not the horse.
My suggestion might be to use a simple boat and rotate them each race, or every couple of races.
Best boat would be a Wave,
However, I would not be in favor of that, as I wouldn't want to see the class get ruined. <img src=
alt=
/>
Rick
<img src=
alt=
/> <img src=
alt=
/> <img src=
alt=
/>
Citius, Altius, Fortius?
Reading some of the laser blogs, it sounds like they all get new boats and have a drawing for who gets which hull number for the games. (and the number 8 and it's derivatives very lucky, number 4 is very unlucky). They appear to have just had their drawing yesterday.
Inclusion in the Olympics certainly hasn't ruined the Laser class either. Growth in Australia has been significant particularly with the radial being added for the women.
Darryn
Mozzie
1782
Lasers and it used to be 470's and perhaps Finn's had boats supplied. Solings, Stars and Tornados have always been
run what you brung
, but subject of course to stringent measurer's ruler.
It makes total sense for all boats to be supplied and drawn by lot.
The problem with that is...it makes sense.
It may be the host country’s option whether to provide boats, I don’t know.
I remember the Soviets contracted with Vanguard to supply 470’s, then we didn’t even attend.
The Olympics in any discipline have never been about making a lot of sense. The Games are always about medal counts and national pride, which puts everything into the hands of politicians. Each sport has a political hierarchy which dictates the standards for that sport and the athletes are at the mercy of these decisions.
Even the class selection we have just witnessed was biased by each country’s delegates choosing classes that they were stronger in…hopefully, anyway. What a bunch of crap.
Olympic selection is a class killer. You get the Olympians migrating in and out every four years, skewing any National or World Championship event.
If each sailing discipline had “supplied” boats, the same sailors would still fill them, but the racing would be fairer and more indicative of ability on the water.
That won’t happen and it probably isn’t what the political dinosaurs want anyway.
Todd,
Is ice curling considered a sport? Think about the control required to exxxcel in this event.
Sailing is an athletic event. period......
I guess my sarcasm doesn't come through in the post. I absolutely think racing sailors are athletes. That's what I meant with
I agree with you on the athlete part though.
Follow the thread.
The difference is you have to be athletic and think to sail. I'm not a powerlifter but I don't think there's much thought to it. As far as a
sport
, anything can be a sport, just watch the VS channel.Just because it's a sport you don't have to be an athlete to do it.
p.s. I try not to think about ice curling.
Most catamarans are built for recreational sailing and they will not handle the requirement and wear that professional sailors have. Why should you force profesional sailors to use cheap equipment designed for recreational sailing? It is the cost running a campain for Olympics that should be concidered. If you need to buy a couple of boats until you find a good one that you must rebuild to get it right and then need to replace it after 6 month due to wear, that is expensive!
Take my Hobie 16 as an example. Even though it is not used by professionals it has problems. My boat cracked at the fron pylon after two years of occasional usage due to bad build quality. Later both Hobie carbon rudders cracked and was actually permanently bent and I don't even sail through surf! I have replaced them with german carbon rudders (430 euros each!) and they handle like a dream. The next step is to rebuild the rudder casting to get rid of the slop. To sum it up, even a recreational sailor needs to rebuild the Hobie 16 before you can race with it! Imagine that boat in the Olympics!
Why not have a dedicated olympic catamaran that is designed for professional use, has top quality and will last several years. The only catamaran that meets those requirement right now is the Tornado.
/hakan
Hakan,
Maybe you need to buy a Nacra product. I have sailed a I20 in 2 Worrell 1000's ( that is 2.000 miles) and a lot of other races and only broke a rudder from backing up in the surf and a spin pole from shrimping the kite. We had winds up to 45mph and days with 8 foot waves and the boat did just fine. All manufactures can have a bad batch of rudders or boards.
Hi David,
I will continue to buy the Hobie 16 since the class and the racing is fantastic! Hobie 16 is designed for the recreational sailor and if you want to race it hard you will need to change boat quite frequently and tweak the new boat so it performs ok. But if you have the chance to select a class for the olympics, Hobie 16 is not the right boat.
/hakan
Bottom line is the Hobie 16 is the Laser of multihulls. If multis get back in and they go OD the Hobie 16 is going to be on the short list.
Remember the olympic Citius, Altius, Fortius and what multihulls in the games are about.
Means different things to different people and we've already had this debate.