Feelers out for Florida 300

Glad you posted it, Barb. I just came here, too, to see if was posted yet.

Have you considered Delray Beach as a stopping point? Approx 1 mile of beach to land on. If interested I can check with Ocean Rescue

This is a terrific idea and we can't wait to participate! This is a great way to hit the proverbial

reset

button on distance catamaran racing on the east coast. Drop many of the restrictions (boats/legs...not necessarily safety), shorten the distances, and see if it can gain some momentum. Make small tweaks from there year after year.

I had been worried that this type of racing might be gone for the long term. However, there's hope watching what the Everglades Challenge has been doing. That event was born out of kayaking but has since opened up to small boats. They have several checkpoints off the ocean that you have to

present your boat

at and check in along the way. You don't have to stay there for any specific period and you can just haul butt until you've either reached the finish line (in Key Largo) or decided you've had enough and need to sleep. A couple of those used to be behind small bridges that limited the size of the boats that could compete in the event (you would also have to drop a mast of any significant size to get under them). You cannot have any outside assistance (including bringing you food or supplies)...but you can stop and walk to a store or restaurant or hotel and keep going or camp along the way.

They continue to ease the restrictions and now none of the checkpoints require you to drop a mast to reach them and the boat limitations are pretty much down to what's practical to launch from the high water mark to the water and what can handle the shallow water you need to cross to reach some of the checkpoints. You also have an option to just go the first leg and be scored for that. The majority of the competitors are in it just for the adventure. Relatively few are in it for the race but both options are completely viable and supported by the event. They have grown to over 100 vessels ready to start this year. 110 or more I believe. This is astonishing and we should take a serious note of their success.

This isn't the only event they run - they run several in Florida, North Carolina, and Chesapeake. In Florida, they alternate years where the 300 mile race is it's own event and the 300 mile race is the start of the the Ultimate 1,000 mile race around Florida (including paddling the St. Mary's and Suwannee Rivers back to the gulf).

I'm taking part in the Everglades 300 this year with Alan Stewart on his self-built trimaran. A few other names you guys know have also raced this event in the past - Livingston, Pierce, Smyth, etc.

I hope these guys pull together the 300 mile race they're talking about - I think it's a great start to get something going again. We don't need to be restrictive with the boats...let everyone participate if they meet some basic skill requirements and follow safety protocols. Make the information about the event well known and easy to find (and early) and the race will grow. Don't change anything until it is either clear that the formula isn't working or the event grows too big. I bet we could get a sustainable event going with the direction these guys are looking. Let it grow from there.

I'm definitely interested, but have a few thoughts:

1) The first leg is going to be long, no way around it. I spent Monday driving through the north end of the keys, those mangrove forests aren't real friendly for landing on and access is pretty limited. Honestly, I wouldn't make that run without a spinnaker boat (that can also do 12kts + upwind). On the flip side, I'm a fan of the run what ya bring concept.

2) 80 mile days are fine IMO. With the opening leg being close to 100 miles, that would make the event 3-4 days. If you can schedule it over a weekend, that may make it a lot more feasible for teams who have real jobs. Big might, since the islander is a long haul for anyone outside Florida.

I do like Jakes checkpoint idea. That would enable run what you bring, and the faster boats can make less stops (saving time and money).

Might be worth mentioning that there is a ~100 mile distance race in the works in NJ for the June time frame, and a possibility of a 120 mile non-stop race on the Chesapeake memorial day weekend.

Opening the last day to a one day race for another fleet has worked out great for the GT300. It's called

The Dash

. It's only about 50 miles and the turn out has been fantastic since it's inception. It's open to 16' and up, spin and non spin. It gives others that don't want the full commitment of the long distance race a taste of it. I believe all the same safety equipment is required but the E-Pirbs. The GT300 starting on a Wednesday (Weigh ins and safety check on Tuesday) and ending on Saturday has worked out great since it gives people the travel day home on Sunday. If you guys get it put together, we may make the run out there and join you. Still sad that the Tybee isn't running.

If they did an

Ironman

race, non stop for 300 miles, we'd be there for sure, without a doubt.

Lee,You need to consider the Ches. Bay Race Sam was talking about. 150 miles Down the bay w/ a pile of big boats to use as course markers or slalom cones.

I think it's a great idea ,but the majority of the past distance racers have gravitated to F-18 and fill their schedules w/ marks racing. It's been the trend in the past that distance races are lower on the priority list and previous posters were culprits of that.
For me it will solely depend on work and if it's a slack period ,I'd be in, but that leaves me as a last minute,comittmentless contender for this year.

To be clear: I wasn't saying they need to open up the checkpoints to make them stop-n-goes. I was only pointing out what is working for the Watertribe events. Their checkpoints are in very remote locations and there's no chance the various checkpoint facilities could support 20 vessels, let alone 100, and the associated people. It's a different type of event in that regard. You take food and shelter with you so you can take care of yourself in the remoteness. That's not possible or practical for a sizable fleet of catamaran sailors on the east coast of Florida. The fleets in the Watertribe were built out of personalities who kayak and tent camp for recreation so it is natural for their events to be structured that way.

Racing up the east coast of Florida in (mostly) well populated stretches of beach lends itself to structured checkpoints...it might be tough to do it any other way for teams. Imagine not knowing if the conditions will support a 120 mile day? You probably won't be able to find a hotel when you do eventually stop...and you certainly aren't going to be able to pop a tent on the beach or sleep on your trampoline with a reasonable expectation of not getting disturbed or in trouble.

I think structured starts every morning is a good way to go for this event. It makes it easier for the non-experienced to get involved. Keep it simple until the next evolution is obvious. Maybe an all out get to the finish as fast as you can may be an option that draws out a sizable facet of our sailing fleets (I kinda doubt it) but we won't know until we get something started. Above all, make the event about having fun and the seriousness will grow within.

I wouldn't believe you included Lee in that statement and that's certainly not been my approach.

One last point, and then I'll quit for the moment. with regards to the length of the first leg and the boat's

worthiness

; Let the sailors decide if the first leg is too far. If my thing was non-spinnaker boats, that distance wouldn't scare me. If the conditions were really light, finishing at 4am and having to start at 10am might rub some folks the wrong way. Consider this, however: people are doing nearly that same distance on freaking paddle boards in the EC. yeah.. Stand Up Paddle boards.

If it is taking too long that turning around a start the next day after that 1st long leg might cost you entries, maybe they consider a lay day after the first start - or an exceptionally short leg on day 2 with a later start time (15 miles?). Let's brain fart here! For the guys that go fast and wouldn't be happy with a 15 mile day, maybe have a buoy race at the check point of day 2 for bonus points...or send them around Fowey Rock before they can go back north to the next check point. Nothing says everyone in the whole fleet has to sail the same exact course or start at the same time.

Heck, maybe the spin boats have to round a mark off the pier at the 15 mile day 2 check point, return to Hollywood, and sail back while the non spin boats do one leg. It lets everybody get to wave at each other. Throw out the rules, consider everything, try stuff, change it, fix it, improve it.

I'll definitely be passing all this great feedback along to the organizers. Unfortunately those folks don't follow this forum for some reason.....

Again, I don't know any of the details, but from my casual conversation I believe the notion of avoiding weekend dates was to keep motel costs as low as possible. I'm sure the organizers will consider how weekday vs. weekend will affect attendance.

I'm interested. I know Jordonna will not be able to take that week off.

I like the idea of it being open, I also like the idea of the extra/bonus races to add some flexibility.

Lee wasn't included.
You and Sam ( and a bunch of others) had both told me in the past Nats, etc. were your priority ( time off from work). Posts are in the archives to back that up.

That's two out of the fleet of ~60 present at Nationals. There are a handful of others that enjoy distance racing, and I'm lucky Jessica likes it, plus has more vacation than me. The reality is we sail at events with the biggest turnout, and highest time on water per dollar spent. That means events like Nat's, Catacup and Worlds often take precedence, though this year might be a little different for us.

I'm eager to see what the format will be and agree with most of Jakes suggestions, keep it interesting and different.

Barb, good point on the hotel costs, in reality vacation time may be a wash with a weekend vs. a week. It's still a solid days worth of driving to get down there from MD, further if you are north. Unfortunately, that likely rules out most of the new england teams unless we leave the trailer in Florida until after the event (unlikely).

I remember you mentioning it on the phone the other night. I am interested as long as I can get David to drag the boat out there and I can fly in (which has worked out great when we did the same out to Cali last year for the Land Rover Island Series). BTW, David has started school for his Captain's License now and I'm thinking how great it will be to hand the tiller over to a Professional Captain now. If I can get a harness shaped like a Lazy Boy recliner, I'll have it made.

This is getting interesting.

The GT300 is a nice race, but I might opt for the long trek to the race course to be in the Atlantic again myself.

And Barb, you could use the GT 300 as a 'how it's done' along with spin rigged boats only for the long event, and the safety equipment, etc.

That's awesome for David.
Make sure you get the back massaging Lazy-boy harness.

Sam, Thanks for paraphrasing my post for me.Facts is facts, that's all.I just don't want to see Dennis and Larry thinking they're going to get a ton of participants and be left holding the bag for race costs. Souring them for any future of the race happening again.It's already happened to 2 of my friends (OBX 500) and I don't want to see it happen again.This is factually what has happened since the Tybee went into hiatus and WAS the reason for that decline.

I don't want to get too far off course here but if I made that comment it was related to getting to the (shorter) Texas 300. I only missed two Tybee 500's - the first one (because I barely knew how to get a sailboat around a race course) and one in the middle that I ground crewed. What caused you to feel like you needed to start making personal accusations?

And sailors deciding in lieu of buoys wasn't the only reason the Tybee 500 declined...but that's, at the very least, another thread.

Jake Give it a rest. Those weren't personal accusations and I'm not going to let you turn this thread into a pissing match as you seem so apt to do with my posts lately. You've made those statements more than once along with other sailors and as I recall they weren't in reference to the GT ,but the Tybee and a possible Worrell comeback.

so the real question would be:

Who is willing to cough up about $1200 and up to 5 days of PTO for a three day distance race sometime in late May 2015?

Dates, locations, and details can be worked out once enough people actually commit to the CONCEPT

I would think you would keep it a pure distance race. Run like the Tybee 500 but just 3-4 days instead. We have plenty of buoy races to chose from. I'm not sure I could get it together by May but I'm interested. I'm sure there is plenty of interest out there that are missing the longer runs.

And even if it were true, why does it matter? You called me out on something irrelevant to the subject matter and then act like I'm putting you out by saying it's not correct. I'm just answering that call by explaining that what you are saying of me isn't true - yet you seem compelled to continue droning about it, hit me again with it, and then hypocritically tell me to

give it a rest

.

Since my first Tybee 500 I have always had the opinion that if a a Worrell event came back, I would register immediately and find a way to get two weeks off work. I hold that same opinion today. Can you

give it a rest

?

Congratulations Jake on getting a chance to be a watertriber. This race will change your life. I am so glad Alan is getting his trimaran out. When he did the 1000 mile race he and his mother they got a late start, was hit with heavy winds, and spent many days in a row paddling the boat. No good stories of 175+ mile a day runs.

Be aware Alan's most competitive trait is ability to use strategy correctly. Other racers simply do not make correct decisions after rowing and sailing 36 hours straight. Will be watching your progress next month. I love the fact Alan built a tri with daggerboards in the amas. Totally bad butt.

There is a great deal of discussion about distance racing on the forum. After completing a few 100 milers and this year hope to complete the NC Challenge 300 miler. I look at things differently. I embrace

filters

. It is hard as hell to sail up wind into a river that narrows to a canal. It goes against normal sailing to race over oyster beds in the dark. Losing your bearings in the dark is scary as hell on the water. But the part I like is it makes you STRONGER. Few of US use the awesome skills we have spent years acquiring on the buoys race course for anything else. The other aspect that I love is the race what you have mentality. Which is starting to give into race what you build. I would never single hand my Isotope offshore in the Worrell 1000 but find it very gratifying to complete a

challenge.

Just remember your getting stronger.

J.P.Ayers
Isotope 186
Holdyourcourse

Mike, I suspect your opinion is probably a popular one about having a straight shot up the coast and not some other diversions in between. I'm a little undecided on it now but used to feel that way about that kind of race too. The couple of years where the first leg was a trip south around Fowey Rock and back to Hollywood bothered me on some level....but I'm not sure exactly why.

I believe the Cata Cup (in St. Barth) is the only significant event I recall that features both types of racing. It's popular but the location probably has more to do with the popularity of that event.

Why do you guys think that is? Is it a fundamental thing with a distance race? Is it that you don't like to mix buoys and distance because of some mental difference between the two? Most of us enjoy both types of racing but we don't like mixing the two...why is that?

My dad refers to the Tybee 500 like it was climbing a mountain where you hit a new camp at a new altitude every night...and maybe that sensation has something to do with it.

Jake,

Mike and I did the Cata Cup this year and it is a awesome race and location. There was not really any buoy racing just some for a starting line a turning mark. Each race was different and you would get the course at a meeting an hour before each race. One race was around the island and into the coves so the spectators could see us. The courses start at a buoy marked starting line and then to different marks like rock islands, channel markers and buoys placed somewhere. Most the races were around 1 to 2 hours with 1 in the morning then lunch on shore and 1 in the afternoon. Really fun event.

Perhaps distance/adventure racing is more about

testing/pushing your limit

than focusing on strategy?

Surely those pitch-black double-trap screaming death reaches down huge swells was something you'd never have in a buoy race?

Just talked to Dennis Green about the race.Barb Short posted most of this in the OP.It sounds like the plan is open, production and 5 boats makes a class. Four legs with a $300 entry with an effort to keep it affordable (hotels,etc.) where possible for the racers. The magic number he told me was 15 entries. There will be a p.o. box # posted in the future and anyone wanting to commit must send a post card with intent to commit,to that address.
The possibility exists that this race may be expanded in the future to double this distance.
C'mon folks lets make it happen.