FX-One with Two

If you do a search on FX-one on this forum you will find several past threads about this very topic. Your questions have been asked several times already.

In summary :

>>Does anyone here know how it sails with two (330lbs total)?

Actually quite well. It seems to like the extra crew weight. The Jib kit makes it feel powered up with respect to the cat rigged setup.

>>Is it too much boat for somone who is starting sailing, I do have a little experience with a friends h16.

It is a sailboat and just like with cars : "There are no bad sailboats anymore". It does have some characteristics that didn't win the approaval of everyone. Do the search to find more comments on this.

>>How easy is it to right solo (I'm 165lbs)

You can forget about that. And I'm not really kidding here. Ask around.

>>Any other information about the FX-One would be great.

I was not to thrilled about the standard cut mainsail and mast combo; it didn't come alive although with the jib I did have several very good runs against the Tigers (sailed by our club champions over the last two years). That was when sailing the FX with jib and a very gung-ho lady of 60 kg's ; I'm 85 kg = total 145 kg = 320 lbs. I was sailing with my eye continiously on the bows thoug; don't let the water hit the beam at speed.

Wouter

Post script; These are my honest comments and I have sailed the FX-one for several tens of hours in all conditions. I did however choose to go with a different boat (over the FX-one)eventually and therefor you may regard my comments as somewhat biased.

Thanks for the help.

I'll read the other posts and see what they have to offer and then get back.

By the way what cat did you get and are you using it solo?

I've had my FX for 2 years now and have sailed it in all kinds of conditions...have really enjoyed it....at 165 you will have a problem righting it yourself...I had some trouble one time...then Im 230lbs..its really a good boat for the usual caribbean wind and seas...if you get a chance come on over to St Croix and we can take it for a sail...Harper

Have you considered a Nacra 17R? Comes with an optional jib kit. Hulls are more bouyant; hold more people more comfortably. I was in the same position you are in now and narrowed down my search to the 17R and FX-1. I felt I got more bang for the buck with the 17R. You can get a color choice for the hulls and sails, black or standard silver anodized beams, and the standard superior new rudder blades. Also an easy to raise/lower white carbon mast. All built in the USA. I'm very happy with mine!!

Bob

well the I-17 hulls are not more bouyant than the FX...you put one of those big bows in a wave here in the caribbean and you are over...not so with the FX...cuts right through,,,I've done it enough times to know and I've sailed the I-17....not much but I have sailed it...

>>By the way what cat did you get and are you using it solo?

A Formula 16; I modified a Taipan 4.9 platform; I hit a real snag in the financial department a few months ago and have been piecing the last components together over the last months in anyway I can. So I've been sailing on the F16 of a befriended sailor instead (Taipan 4.9 with my F16 spi). Anyways this is a whole different story.

I'm planning on switching between solo and doublehanded regulary on my own F16. I expect to sail solo about 50 % of the time. This was a major consideration on my list and it turned our to be a real discriminating point. Many alternatives failed on this point. I must add that I really be racing this setup in double setup as well so A-cat was out of the question. This sort of left me to I-17, FX-one, Taipan 4.9/F16. I chose the latter.

See attached pic of my platform.

Wouter

If I may.

>>Have you considered a Nacra 17R? Comes with an optional jib kit.

There are only 3 options (I-17, FX-one, F16) and all have jibs as standard or as kits.

>>hold more people more comfortably.

I would say FX-one wins in this department. But that is just me. (I think FX-one is too bouyant actually)

>>and the standard superior new rudder blades.

Howcome supperior; as far as I know Inter and FX-one rudders are almost carbon copies of eachother. In handling certainly. And I've sailed with both systems alot.

>>Also an easy to raise/lower white carbon mast.

One that weights more than a lightweight alu superwing mast, but never mind. We have been doen this road many times before.

>>All built in the USA. I'm very happy with mine!!

I-17R is build in USA
FX-one isn't. it is a Hobie France boat importer by Hobie USA
Formula 16 is now U.S. build as well. (Yep you heard that right, Blade F16 to be precise)

Wouter

Hey Vicatman,

Sure you didn't just dive that I17 down to periscope depth on purpose? I buried both hulls on my I17R last weekend with the spinnaker up and she pulled right out. Look at the bows of the I17. Not only are they tall but, they are rounded and quite narrow. Great for recovery..........

Tom Turlington
I17R #124

I would advise trying both the I-17R and the FX-One before you decide. I have talked to two people who have sailed both and they both said the biggest difference is what happens on the boats when you set down the tiller to put up or take down the spinnaker. The I-17R tracks steadily with slight weather helm prior to putting the spinnaker up and slight lee helm after the spinnaker is up. They both said that they found the FX-One requires control of the tiller at ALL TIMES or it turns radically!

Wouter, I ran into this piece of information recently on 1design.net, but am surprised that there haven't been more details floating around. Do you (or anyone) know when they are going to be available and what the price will be? And in relation to the original post, how will the price compare with the FX-One and I17R? Is there any marketing going on?

Mark.

shhhhh....you arent supposed to mention that...lol...what were the conditions like when you buried the hull...what were the seas like...here 4-6 swells are pretty much normal..you bury one of those big bows in the back of a 6ft swell it will go over....

I had checked out the Taipan 4.9 and I'm sure it's a beautiful cat but it is just a little over my budget, after all this will be the first cat that I will actually own. My accountant (that's me ) thinks it will be an option my second time around.

I have been researching the I17R but I think the design is a little old. Does anyone know when it was first designed and what updates has been done to it since then? How does the price compare to the Taipan 4.9? . Any other words about this cat?

I haven't much looked at the Blade yet but I will consider it eventhough it seems as though it is more tailored to flat water; there isn't much of that around here on the Atlantic side of the island.

Is there a cat that I can right solo? Really don't want to get caught with my mast below the hulls, there aren't many boats around to help if you can beleive that.

Vicatman, don't be suprised if I take you up on you offer and come over for a spin someday.

Maybe a H16 is what I need. . There is a cat association here on the island and they will be racing during Memorial weekend, I plan on being there.

>>Formula 16 is now going to be U.S. build as well. (Yep you heard that right, Blade F16 to be precise)

See for announcement :

http://www.1design.net/cgi-bin/webbbs_config.pl?read=5699

Wouter

"Thinking about the FX-One because I will be sailing solo a lot."
"How easy is it to right solo (I'm 165lbs)".

VERY important to be able to right in ANY conditions, especially given that you might be out of sight of other sailors / motorboats etc, an upside-down boat is difficult to see. I would see this as being the MOST important factor in deciding on which boat to get, given the task of sailing solo often.
I`m 148lbs, sail a lightweight 16ft cat (105kg boat) with fairly short mast (7,36m / approx 24ft). Mast weighs 14kg. I can right the boat from turtle in any windstrength, mast is sealed, but I have to stand on the tips of the daggerboards to right it, which means that I`m not quite heavy enough, but I`ve capsized a lot & never had to be assisted.
I think you`d find yourself in the same situation with any of the F16 designs - the mast is longer than mine by 4ft / 1,2m, which is a lot, but is about the same weight, and the boats weigh much the same as mine, so you`ll have no trouble there being 17lbs heavier. From what I`ve seen in other posts the heavier 17ft boats will be near impossible for you to right on your own.
Hobie 16 is not really suitable for solo sailing, and can also be difficult to right solo at our weight range. I can`t right the Dart 18 solo, even with the waterbag.
In my opinion you`re limited to 16ft lightweight design boats due to your weight & intended use, I`m not trying to sell F16 or any other class, but it seems the most logical option for sailors of our weight, I`m sure the FX & I-17 are great boats, but not if you can`t sail them confidently knowing you can get home without help. They are more suited to heavier, bigger sailors who can solo-right them confidently.

Cheers
Steve

Thanks Steve,

Thats the information that I was looking for since capsizing and not being able to right the boat is my main concern at this time. Better safe than sorry!

I wouldn't buy a motorcycle that I couldn't lift if I dumped it! Same goes for my boat.

Any other comments on this issue?

Thanks Steve.

Hello BLS,
Well, you all know I had to jump in on this one!
I sail with Harper, on the island South East of you, called St. Croix.
We all have a blast and we (mostly) all have different boats.
As you can tell, we each enjoy our respective choice.

Contact the H16 gang in Puerto Rico, specifically the winner of the 2004 St. Croix International ( he owns LoLo too).

Ask him about the performance of the I-17. For we handicapped out pretty close and raced each other. That race weekend was a steady 18-20 mph and 4 foot +/- 1 foot water condition.

Then ask the same H16 owner about the 2004 BVI race weekend. It was 6-8 mph and no waves to speak of. In that condition, we rated almost equal.

Then you wil know.

However, let it be known, alot of Puerto Rican beach cat sailors are ready to go the Uni-rig solo sailor boat. I believe I could have sold my boat , to a Puerto Rican sailor that weekend in St. Croix, they were that impressed. ( But then, I would have a real hard time finding another I-17 down here)

What ever platform you decide, you will NOT be sorry. These boats perform beyond your expectatiions.

By the way, I am rigging my I-17, 2 up this year,...my son is big enough now to go in the ocean,...yep, I can reconfigure to 1 up anytime too,...so very nice options,.....bottom line,..you go sailing alot more than most!

Whatever you do,....BUY THE DANG BOAT AND GO SAILING!

We expect to see you over here next year!

regards,

Bruce
I-17 Euro
'Love Never Fails'
St. Croxi, USVI

BLS,

FYI,....a friend ( who owns a I-20),..was sailing the I-17,.....flipped trying to go wild,......righted that thing in nothing flat!

He is about 170 pounds and in his 30's.............

Harper rights the FX-1 ,..........PDQ too.

me?.......I just do not flip it,...haven't in 2 years either............

oh, by the way,.....did I mention the upwind performance of the Uni rig?......

In the 2004 St. Croix Int Regatta,...the Uni rig I-17 ......beat, ON REAL TIME, the following boats to the upwind mark;

- Hobie 16
-Nacra 5.8
-Prindle 19MX

.....most every race.. ( 11 race total)

....the I-17 was around 4 to 6 boatlenghts BEHIND a I-20, at the upwind mark,......except for race 10, ...THE I-17 BEAT THE I-20, to the upwind mark....... BY 2 BOATLENGHTS!!!!!!!!

..if you want more performance,...then you should consider a powerboat,.....really.

...the key was the Uni was laying the mark in 2 tacks ( actually overstanding the mark each time,...had to travel down to footstraps)

...the jib boats were tacking 3-4-5 times.

...in those conditions,...I was flying a small mainsail ( 150sf),...and the rig was SO DIALED IN!......( thanks to the F-16 forum, Wouter, et al..)
...the hull lifted( and stayed) at a stable 3 foot off the water with 100% throttle,.....those bows just destroyed the rollers,...front and back side,...

....it was almost unfair,...I enjoyed it so much,.....the other beach cat sailors just shook their heads at me, back at the beach........they gave the I-17 a new name,.......'the giant killer'

Bruce
St. Croix

heyy just let me know,,,I working a rotating shift schedule and have lots of free daytime,,,,Harper

>>Wouter, I ran into this piece of information recently on 1design.net, but am surprised that there haven't been more details floating around. Do you (or anyone) know when they are going to be available and what the price will be? And in relation to the original post, how will the price compare with the FX-One and I17R? Is there any marketing going on?

I'm a little bit bound by the clearence the builder has put to several information elements and Im happy to give him all the margin he wants. What I can say is that , the intend is to have the first boat sailing this season and that is is intended to directly compete with the I-17R and cheapest F18. Of course both the FX-one and Taipan F16/Stealth F16 are (far?) more expensive due to the fact that these are all imported boats (The US dollar is still weak). Same applies to the Hobie Tiger. That is of course why a US based builder is so important to the F16 class.

We keep it mild on the marketing front for now. Nothing worse than claiming big stuff and having to face a delay in delivery so to say. Besides we're not lacking in interest and we all agreed a long time ago that we rather grow at a mild pace but continiously than flare up like a wildfire and die as quickly as well.

Here I will give you some info that was send by Matt to an interested party a few weeks back :

*

We are working with Phill to put into production a US manufactured Blade F16. We are still working out some of the details, but I can give you an update of where we are now.

Phill is in the process of transferring the design parameters to us for the hull. We are taking the templates generated from the original design, and creating a CAD model of the hull that we will fair electronically, and then have the hull plugs machined. This way we will have perfectly fair molds from the start. The transfer of the hull design and the modeling are currently being done. We are aiming to have the first composite boat on the water in the first halve of this season.

The components other than the hull, for the Blade initially will be what we can procure off the shelf. The exception to this is that we are having made centerboards and rudder blades that fit the hull shape of the Blade better than the stock components produced by AHPC. We will be eventually putting into production a rudder system designed specifically for this platform, as well as trading components and sourcing to fit with this design and produced locally.

The final pricing for this boat is still in development. A significant portion of the initial components are made
overseas, and the fluctuating exchange rate has been very problematic for us. We will be offering soon an introductory
price for people interested in purchasing one of the first run boats. Those involved in the initial run will get offered upgrades and changes as they are made at or below cost. While the final pricing for the boat has not been set, we are very conscious and looked at this very closely before we agreed to enter into this arrangement with Phill. The price of this boat has to be at or below what the other platforms in the same class are already selling for. We feel that there are 2 boats available in the US that fit very closely with what we are producing with the Blade, The I17R and the F18. The F16 boats like the Taipan, and the other European built boats all have support issues and especially now exchange rate problems in comparing pricing. We will be stocking parts at our factory for support, and will be publishing a very comparative warranty for this boat as well in the near future.

I am sorry I do not have any more definitive information, but if you are still interested, I will keep you informed as we progress with this project.

*****

For anybody want more information I suggest you contact Matt McDonald of Vectorworks Marine directly at MMcDonald@VectorworksMarine.com (Please only seriously interested mails, Matt is a busy guy)

To this I can add that Phill Brander has just taken delivery of the first set of purpose build full Carbon boards/rudders/stocks for the Blade F16 and he is very happy with them after the first inspection.

Blade Europe has just ordered and payed for Glenn Ashby build sets of mainsails and Jibs and Goodall Spinnakers. (standard gear on the EU build version).

Slowly but surely we are getting there and from the looks of it this is the way to get some proper gear onto the water.

I think this info pretty much gives some answers to your questions.

And ehhh, Blade F16 is definately NOT a lake boat. That has been tested already and it is the boat you want to be on in large waves and chop. I hear the hull surfs like nobodies business and stays level on the watersurface when doing a beat against wind and waves.

Regards,

Wouter

I forget : Here is the webpage of the company that is working on getting the Blade F16 build locally in the US :

http://www.vectorworksmarine.com/

I'm not in any doubt that they can build an excellent lightweight laminate catamaran.

Wouter

>>I had checked out the Taipan 4.9 ... but it is just a little over my budget,

True, that is the problem with the Taipan 4.9 at the moment. There is no denying it.

>>after all this will be the first cat that I will actually own. My accountant (that's me ) thinks it will be an option my second time around.

In that case a good secondhander may be the best option you have. Than a nacra 5.0 or nacra 500 comes to mind.

>>I have been researching the I17R but I think the design is a little old. Does anyone know when it was first designed

Somewhere around 1997 in Australia. Than it was taken up by the US Nacra yard and they changed some stuff of which the weight (more) and the general setup. The Australian original was a two person boat with a large overlapping jib and no spi. Nacra US removed the jib and placed a spi on it and made a singlehander and later replaced the alu mast for a longer carbon one and increased the sail area as well. Brobu sails an alu masted I-17 which would be ideal for his conditions were you don't want that much sailarea on a tall mast anyway. THis is the development in a nutt shell

>>How does the price compare to the Taipan 4.9? . Any other words about this cat?

It is alot cheaper than the Taipan on the US market. I hear it is generally a well (very) behaved boat although the alu masted boat is underpowered in the lighter stuff and its handicap rating and performance reflects this. And for you US guys I'm talking about the version sailed in Europe with the alu mast. The Americans sail the I-17R and this one has boosted performance. It has a carbon mast but it is nowhere near the lightweight of an A-cat carbon mast. Generally a good decent boat. And the only one I haven't sailed myself yet, so I trust that my sailing buddies informed me correctly.

>>I haven't much looked at the Blade yet but I will consider it eventhough it seems as though it is more tailored to flat water; there isn't much of that around here on the Atlantic side of the island.

Yeah well, that is what people say before they have to sail against the Blade in the heavy stuff (chop and waves). I think all who (tested) sailed her since launch were quite expressive about her ability to take-one waves and chop. And I mean in positive terms. General comment is that she has a very smooth feel, no matter what the seastate.

>>>Is there a cat that I can right solo?

A-cat
Prindle 15
Hobie 14

I hope this helps

Wouter

Thanks for the info Wouter.

Mark.

I've had my FX-1 out with two and had no problems whatsoever. The boat handles the same, just a slight decrease in the acceleration is all I've noticed. I weigh about 190lbs and have no trouble at all with righting, it comes up in no time. The person I bought it from weighed about 165 lbs and he reported little trouble righting it as well.

While I think being able to right a boat is critical, most boats can be righted with one person. I had a TheMightyHobie18 before the FX-1 and could do it myself as well with an adaptive device. Hooking it up took about 2 minutes, so total time to right was about 5 minutes. Again, righting the boat is critical, but I think more critical is finding the right boat for you. You will spend much more time upright than sideways, so find a boat you like to sail....then figure out a way to make it work. There are plenty of devices out there to help you.

The FX-1 is a really fun boat. I have not sailed an I17, so I cannot compare, but I have a blast on my boat. The acceleration is great, upwind speed is good and once the chute is up......see ya later! I can rig the boat myself with little trouble and it's light enough to move on the beach myself as well.

My wife and I will be racing together later this year and if you wish, I can let you know how it goes. So far this year, I've raced solo and done very well. A lot of the fun for me is figuring out the new boat and dialing it in. If you have any questions, just let me know! Good luck in finding the right boat for you.

Kip
Boise, ID
FX-1

Kip....you wouldnt by chance have any pictures of how your kite is set up....Im looking at a kite for mine this summer...I have had a great time on mine also...goes really well in the caribbean swells...Harper

Well I think I have made up my mind to simply buy a used H16 to start. There doesn't seem to many other types of boats around here and buying a used boat will get me to a new one faster. I think an F16 would be my best choice for my needs when I go new, don't know which one, maybe an American Blade once they are in production. What do you think about my plan?

Wouter, can you or anyone else keep us updated on production of the US Blade?

Thanks everyone for your input, it was extremely valuable. I can see by everyone's freely given and honest opinions that I am about to join a wonderful community of free minded and generous people. The experience that I have had so far on this forum has put my faith back into the human race; there really are nice people out there who are willing to help others and you should really congradulate yourselves for that.

Well I got to get busy shopping the "flea markets" for a used H16. I think I may already have one spied out. I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks All. See Ya Round

BLS

>>Wouter, can you or anyone else keep us updated on production of the US Blade?

Of course.

>>Well I think I have made up my mind to simply buy a used H16 to start. There doesn't seem to many other types of boats around here and buying a used boat will get me to a new one faster.

I think this to be a very wise decision. New modern boats are a lot of fun but learning to sail (well) is best done on a inexpensive secondhander that can take a beating.

You probably end up with a H16 as there are so many around in the US and it has good turn-out at events. However I would advice you do a search on nacra 5.0 and nacra 500 as well. These hulls are more modern (don't have the lip) and you'll welcome that in big waves and chop. With a little luck you should be able to find one of these for about the same price as a Hobie 16. I also think that a Nacra 5.0 or 500 take the upgrade of a spinnaker better if you ever want to go that route. The nacra 5.0 or 500 could proof to be a very good lead up to the more modern boats of I-17R, FX-one and F16's.

Kind regards and fair winds to you

Wouter

Hello BLS,

Go to the Memorial Day race in PR.

A I-20 from St. Croix will race.

It is a sponsered boat, which means, it is in 11% condition. A real nice tradewinds racer.

The owner just bought a Tornado to race next season. The I-20 is for sale.

The price will surprize you. It is in your range.

You could race this boat for the next 10 years and do well.

regards,

Bruce
St. Croix

Harper,

I need to get a dig camera. The one I have is crappy and wouldn't do any good to take pix. I plan on buying one soon for my trip to FL, so as soon as I get it, I'll take some pix for you. I know you live in vastly different conditions, but the kite kicks butt.

I had the boat out today and had a great time. I still need to dial it in going upwind. I can't figure it out. Sometimes, it scoots closer to the wind than my 18, other times, I'm bearing off a lot to keep the speed up. Well, that's one of the reasons I got a new boat....it's always fun to figure it out. Any tips you have would be great.

Have a good one!

Kip
Boise, ID
FX-1

Well Brobru......
I will be going to the races this coming weekend and I'll be looking for some boats that may be for sale. I'll check out the I-20 but it's bigger than I would like, afterall I'm just starting and I plan on mostly sailing solo. The I-20 would be too big for me.

I'm looking for something cheap for now, something that I can beatup on until I have more time on the water. After that I think I'll be looking at F16, they seem very exciting and I think the class has a great future as it will fill the needs of solo sailors like myself. Well that's my boat purchasing plans at this moment and they are certainly subject to change.

Are you going to be at the Coors regatta?

BLS