Regatta attendance is down, events are being cancelled due to financial constraints, people are getting upset about it, I read of people complaining of having to do MAJOR travel to race and yet we still only have 2 F-18 signed up for the Ocean Springs event for April IN THE SOUTH. What can we do to make this regatta work for you guys??
I'm going to stir the pot. Open it up for all cats, not just F18s. We can't afford to exclude anyone.
On that particular weekend there are two regattas on the calendar local to me. If I were to drive the 8 to 10 hours that it would take me to get to Ocean Springs, that opens up two maybe three other choices.
I think it's an issue of scheduling in this case.
My schedule got changed and we are unable to make it.
We had 2 boats coming.
Ditto Andy, Looking at this attendance (HMW) and other regattas being canceled, it's time to organize when events are to happen, work together, don't exclude boats, if someone travels to ours we need to make a point of traveling to theirs, if not every year, then every other year.......This just seems maddening that events do not have a common place to schedule our multihull regattas and if necessary, make them every other year events so that everybody has the same goal, get as many boats as possible to an event, work together to plan for all the events.......open it up, this is about multihull growth and getting all the boats we can involved and on the water.....
So... that is a failure of leadership.... Not just a mechanism to schedule BUT the willingness to make hard choices.
Thanks... our numbers are down... we can't support your event this year as a class. We are recommending that our fleet's sailors pass on your regatta.
That is hard!
Just because a YC or cat group is OK with running a regatta with 4 boats on the starting line... does not mean the class should support it and publish it on the schedule.
There is also a failure of followership... If you want racing with 10 boats min on the starting line... you are going to have to follow... and show up for your class schedule.
Until HC gets into the f16 world, we're (HCA-NA) only able to accomodate F-18s. Best we can do, but I still would have thought we'd have gotten a peck (gaggle? Pride?) of F-18s to come at least for tuning up and putting a beat down on the Hobie 20s they will most likely start with.
I'm like you Chris, I don't get it.......
Mark has been making this point repeatedly and there is certainly some truth to it. The problem is going to boil down to who is giving up our dates. If you look at the schedule on our website (Emsa-sailing.org) you'll see the EMSA regattas and
other events
listed there. It used to be that all of those
other events
were in our EMSA regattas list and it was too much...we were losing people. We decided to whittle the list of official regattas down and it's helped a little. It still drives a lot of discussion about who's regatta is official when we have a conflict.
With the time and energy we spend on nailing down our own regional schedule, I start to wonder who would really move their dates around to accommodate a neighboring regatta on a larger scale? The a-cat class clearly didn't make any effort to avoid Spring Fever (and event that was drawing a significant number of A-cats) and it probably cost them both their events. Spring Fever is always Easter weekend and I have my doubts as to whether or not we could have talked the a-cat organizers out of that weekend if we had the chance.
That said, I definitely think it's worthwhile to setup some scheduling discussions around major events but it's a BIG nut to crack and events aren't all scheduled at the same time.
A sailor exchange program is a good idea but it is difficult to get any significant buy-in in our region for something like that when they're happy with our regional schedules.
It's schedule saturation plain and simple. Opening HME to all is not the solution, it's one regatta in a sea of regatta's.
Let the poorly attended regatta's drop off the schedule and allow the well run well attended regatta's to prosper. It's cold hearted but it's a solution and is probably going to happen anyway because inaction is very popular.
At the Multihull Racing Committee meeting in the fall, the need for a centralized scheduling tool was mentioned. Jeff Dusek volunteered to help set this up, but as mentioned above (by several of you in different ways), populating and then doing something meaningful with the tool falls on the local organizations.
Rick has tried to provide such tools here in the past, and sometimes they are used for a while, then dropped; other times they aren't used at all. And, I'm just talking about populating the data, not using it to drive decisions.
Getting regatta organizers within a single class to work together not to step on one another is hard enough; getting organizers of different classes to work together has proven to be a tough nut to crack.
I think Ding is right in the sense that unless we change something about how we approach this, it's going to be survival of the fittest. My thought is, how could SF not be one of the fittest, and what can we do to ensure that we don't lose that regatta forever?
I'm in favor of anything that will improve the situation.
Mike
that would be a good use of my US Sailing membership dollar: a scheduling calendar that could be filtered by class and/or region as well as format (buoy, distance, adventure, fun, etc)
So if I wanted to see where my OD events were, I could.
If I just said
hey, I've got a weekend free. What regattas are going on around me?
, I could.
Organizers can register to create/edit the events and link the NORs.
Maybe even have the site handle the pre-registration and/or payment processing? US Sail would probably take a cut, but whatever...
Heck, that might even give US Sailing the opportunity to show sponsors where their money is going, how many eyeballs are seeing it, etc.
So if I wanted to see where my OD events were, I could.
If I just said
hey, I've got a weekend free. What regattas are going on around me?
, I could.
Organizers can register to create/edit the events and link the NORs.
Maybe even have the site handle the pre-registration and/or payment processing? US Sail would probably take a cut, but whatever...
Heck, that might even give US Sailing the opportunity to show sponsors where their money is going, how many eyeballs are seeing it, etc.
Why reinvent the wheel.
A Southeast Calendar has been used for 2 years now. It's hosted on Google cloud and can be accessed by anyone.
We try to keep a good list of events up to date for easy viewing. Also you can add your name under your class and indicate which regattas that you plan on attending.
It can be found ; with links to the NOR if/when available.
I don't recommend utilizing a single calendar for all regions, but others can copy this format for their regions and where regions abut a sharing of key regattas can be included on one anothers calendar to increase attendance and minimize events being planned for the same weekend.
So if I wanted to see where my OD events were, I could.
If I just said
hey, I've got a weekend free. What regattas are going on around me?
, I could.
Organizers can register to create/edit the events and link the NORs.
Maybe even have the site handle the pre-registration and/or payment processing? US Sail would probably take a cut, but whatever...
Heck, that might even give US Sailing the opportunity to show sponsors where their money is going, how many eyeballs are seeing it, etc.
When I read posts like this I have throw my hands in the air and say w - t - f? There are schedules everywhere, if you really want to find a regatta it is easily found. Terry for the 100th time has provided a link to a schedule page he created years ago which has EVERYTHING in the southeast. Rick puts every regatta in the nation on the schedule page on this very site. The USF18 class has another comprehensive schedule on the class site and it's probably safe to assume the other classes do it as well.
Another schedule page IS NOT the solution and likely will be just as ignored as all of the other schedule pages currently available. If we can't get folks to take two minutes to do a google search can we really expect them to drag their boat to a regatta regardless what we offer?
On another topic I have never been to a regatta where the open class is treated any differntly than any other class there. If they aren't attending it's for the same reason(s) as any of the other classes.
Dave, I tend to agree, but it was brought up and had support at the meeting. As I mentioned above, I am skeptical for exactly the same reasons as you. We might just need to do a better job of using and advertising what's already out there.
Having said that, if enough people want this, and we have someone willing to manage it, I will fully support the effort and get US Sailing to help support and promote it. We had staff support for the idea in the room as well.
Mike
Hmmm. Interesting. If the schedule is saturated, that is a problem for everyone, since the SE is a pretty large area and its not 1977 and we don't have tens of thousands of drunken sailors looking for a party, I mean regatta, every weekend. We (HCA) really only have ONE regatta we call our own and that is the MWE and its pretty much always around the same time. Talk is that it might just kind of stay in Mississippi as its a good deal for everyone. We (HCA) can certainly work with whoever we need to so that we schedule this properly so we don't cross swords with another regatta. Other than that, we have a couple good div chairs in north and south Florida doing their best to get our OD 16 class into existing regattas with some success. If there is a central location for scheduling stuff, and a forum to discuss it in, we'll be the first to work to get the schedule right so we don't suck the life out of another race or vice versa.
F-18's, F-16's, and A-Cats all rate within 2% on SCHRS! I would rather drive 8 hours to a regatta with a total mixed fleet of 20 F-18's, F-16's and A's than 4 hours to a regatta with <5 F-18's!!!
Hypothetical scenario. Suppose we assemble this country-wide schedule. What regional scheduling process will change as a result?
Our EMSA process (SC, NC, GA, TN, and somewhat VA) is that I start a Yahoo Group conversation by listing the official regattas we had the previous year and asking the local folks to check their schedules and plan their dates. I'm always surprised at how very responsive everyone is once this initial call goes out (seriously). I start filling in the blanks as the dates come in. If we have a date or event conflict, we work it out there but this hasn't been much of an issue in the last two years. When there is a conflict, we sometimes discuss which is an
official
event under some thinly documented guidelines that catamaran-only regattas, or regattas that give catamarans their own course, get official preference vs. regattas that are mixed monohull and multihull on the same course. Sometimes someone will agree to shift their date. Once we have our schedule sketched out, if they haven't already been brought up and included in our
other events
category, I find the national championships that pertain to the different boat classes that make up our group and make sure I notify event organizers that they have a conflict and may lose X number of boats. They either rearrange or decide to leave their event where it is. Once finalized, I post it to the EMSA website and send the information to Rick White and Damon's schedule at the Beachcats. Our schedule is also sent on to SAYRA (EMSA is a member there) to be included on their southeast schedule.
That said, very few of our sailors go to events outside our territory other than Steeplechase, Tradewinds, or a national championship. Some do attend Slip to Ship but it's usually one or two boats and losing them won't drive a need to adjust our schedule. I can't think of another event in the neighboring areas that would make us need to shift our schedule...our folks just aren't traveling that far away.
I'm not sure how having another national calendar will change the way we schedule our events in our region because we are only concerned with avoiding the major events that we are already concerned with. I'm also not sure that our method needs any repair.
Boom! Done! Been around a long time.....
Leave it to Barb to bring the dynamite! But, don't you have to pay fees to have your event on Regatta Network?
Yes, but it's modest enough to be enough bang for the buck that even our small Upper Keys Sailing Club uses it for
big
regattas. I'm sure US Sailing would require some subsidy to use such a thing as well.
Annapolis to Oxford is September 13th, return trip September 14th. Low hassle, we had 10 beachcats on the line last year, party at the finish, sail back the next day. No ground crew needed, 70 miles of sailing, centrally located for the Northeast and Southeast fleets!!
Leave your boat rigged and race two days the following weekend!
Thanks Barb. Although, I am not new to Regatta Network and am a HUGE fan of it, my point was the discussion portion of making up a schedule that everyone can not only live with but can more easily participate in. Just making plans independent of a larger process has led us to: SF being cancelled, MWE showing modest at best numbers etc..etc....etc...see what I mean?
That said, very few of our sailors go to events outside our territory other than Steeplechase, Tradewinds, or a national championship. Some do attend Slip to Ship but it's usually one or two boats and losing them won't drive a need to adjust our schedule. I can't think of another event in the neighboring areas that would make us need to shift our schedule...our folks just aren't traveling that far away.
I'm not sure how having another national calendar will change the way we schedule our events in our region because we are only concerned with avoiding the major events that we are already concerned with. I'm also not sure that our method needs any repair.
I think having regional calendars that are visible to all are worthwhile based around the
usually suspects
of attendees. These can overlap a bit.
For example:
FL, GA Calendar
N. FL, AL, MS, GA Calendar
SC, NC, GA, TN , VA Calendar
VA, MD, PA, DL Calendar
New England Calendar
Each adjacent region should coordinate with the other adjacent regions to
Beyond that, I think each adjacent area should have 1 race per year (outside of the big ones that Jake mentions - Tradewinds, SpringFever, SteepleChase) that we all make a concerted effort to try and attend to make it a
super regional regatta
.
For example, Pensacola is has a good sailing venue so us in Central Florida should make a time to get up there to race and bring boats....then maybe the guys on the fringe in GA and SC might find that more boats there are attractive and bring 4-5 more.
Another idea, might be to rearrange schedules of FL races to be more heavily geared towards DEC-MAR. Targeted towards cold weather climate sailors who could bring their boats down for the first race and leave them in FL while flying in to make other races.
Current Races In Florida during that timeframe:
DEC: SteepleChase
Jan: Tradewinds
Feb: Charlotte Harbor, Hagar (low key fun weekend)
Mar: SpaceCoast 45
Maybe consider switching out KPRR on Labor Day weekend with Hagar for full weekend of buoy racing.
For our fleet, MWE just doesn't really fit into the schedule. We have spring training in Newport during April, then our season starts mid-May at Madcatter. I think for many of us, training as a group in Newport during April makes more sense financially and in terms of vacation time then traveling to MWE or Spring Fever. Personally, I would rather save my limited money for something like Nationals later in the season.
I like the concept of a centralized
one-stop
to look at a wide variety of stuff.
I almost missed this because it's not on a multihull or beachcat calendar: http:/
Most likely due to the organizers lack of knowledge of where to post stuff. In this particular event beachcats aren't participating (something in the NOR about self-righting and cabins), BUT that doesn't mean a beachcat or two can't
shadow
(Timbo's word) the fleet and make them look silly sorry, that was for the monohulls (guess they don't like sailing canoes or Sunfish)...
Some Hard facts of life.. with no magic solutions.
We are Over scheduled.... See Jeff's feedback... Not enough racers on the midwinter travel circuit to give these events critical mass.
Stupidity... having apathy kill off Spring Fever
VS
Triage ... Class and regatta leaders having a meeting and making hard decisions.
Word. Our guys in the North/South <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> are Mark Van Doren and Michael McNeir, and if they aren't seeing this, I'll get them up to speed, but if there ends up being a Tony Soprano type meeting of the classes to get a non saturated schedule together, they will be our go to guys from HCA's perspective.
We would be able to better support the Georgia regatta if we could persuade the organizers into a Hobie 16 separate start. We asked, but were denied a couple years in a row and can certainly bring people/equipment/whatever to the event to help.
Jake, I respectfully disagree that your process can't use improvements. You just lost Spring Fever. That would be like losing Madcatter and saying,
Nothing is wrong here, go about your business...
Barb, if we put something on the US Sailing site, it will be free. It will simply be a hosted schedule, so it won't cost them anything. It will be up to us to maintain the schedule.
While I have some reservations as to whether people will actually use it, this is precisely the type of stuff US Sailing and the Multihull Racing Committee absolutely should be doing as a service to our members.
Mike
Chris reminds me or what is truly irreplaceable are GREAT VENUES. Places that sailors enjoy going to with good waters to sail. 1) Property owners, (state or private) have to take a very hard look at giving you permission to use their property. 2) You MUST HAVE local volunteers to make events happen... you can't run them from 500 miles away.
The assumption that the free market... let the individual sailor vote by picking and choosing ASSUMES that the marketplace exists and if one event gets killed off... it is readily replace by another equally fine event... maybe yes.. maybe no...
Burning your clubs and the irreplaceable venues that they make available is beyond stupid....