knives and helmets ?

G'day Pirate have you done a search on how many drownings there have been on beachcats in the whole world in the last 10 years? You may be surprised at our sport being the safest thing you can do on a moving vehicle. Modern high aspect sails mean shorter, light section, round booms that do no harm and attaching more things to your body is just adding more things to get hooked up on.

Women's soccer has the highest injury rate of any sport in the US.

They have shin pads, right?

has anyone been seriously injured/killed on a foiling moth?

As safe as you imagine it to be. We ain't got gills.

perhaps the questions should be:

Do you consider the sport of beachcat racing

safe

(define the term)?

If not, what can be done to increase safety?

I will gladly wear a helmet on this thing, might go and see it next week actually:

The HCA-NA people have been talking ALOT about helmets, with us basically ending up with just making strong suggestions at youth teams wearing them (without a hard fast rule)and we (like the skiing peeps out there) are seeing more and more helmets in use. I would guess there were 10 sailors in Galveston with helmets on (and another 80 that wish they had them on their heads during friday's big blow)
Greg Thomas from Hobie Cat spoke on this subject at the AGM we had and are going to make an effort to have a stronger marketing effort on the helmets that they carry and hopefully that will move us forward into general acceptance of helmets on the multihulls.

The key word is

REQUIRED.

This is the one word that makes everyone crazy, even if it's the best idea in the world.

I believe that ISAF attempted to mandate safer trapeze systems, that idea got squashed before it was implemented.

Realistically, recommendations are the way to go, along with cultural / marketing efforts to implement the safer ideas, as Chris mentioned above.

Mike

I wear a knife and am looking for a nice comfortable helmet.

I do not agree with that.

Your probably right bacho, I was talking about the little booms on high aspect sails, I don't have a problem with anyone that wants to wear a helmet, I encourage kids to wear them because they seem to be on older boats or dinghys with old fashioned heavy booms. Statistically I should wear a helmet in my car on the way to sailing then leave it in my car when I get there and it would do me more good

ironic really..... we wrap the kids up in the best protective gear we belive is suitable and yet we don't apply the same logic to ourselves
<img src="<>/crazy.gif" alt="crazy" title="crazy" height="15" width="15" />

It always horrified me when I was car racing, the number of fellow racers that had a $500 seat and a $30 helmet staggered me

seems to me that most of us are very complacent when it comes down to our own safety.

With regards to knockin my noggin, I have hard far more close calls sailing monohulls than I have on the cat and the time I spend on those pales in comparison to the time I spend on cats. I can't really think of a time on the cat where I wished I had a helmet. The lighter booms on the cats today are a lot safer IMHO.

Even so, I promised myself that I would never jest about anyone wearing a helmet..ever.

I've bruised, banged, cut and scraped just about every other part of my body while racing my cat, but the only time I've bashed my skull was when I was pushing the beach wheels up under it on shore and ran my head into the dolphin striker! I bled for a week! I doubt if I'd had a helmet, it would have been on me, on the beach pushing my cat wheels under the boat.

Put me down for no on the helmets on beach cats, at least until I can afford something a lot faster, like a foiling Phantom or an AC 72.

If you want a light weight helmet that won't make your head too hot, look at hockey helmets.

http://www.totalhockey.com/product/IMS_7.0_CUSTOM_Helmet/itm/13637-2/?mtx_id=0

That helmet is the bomb!

Maybe we should all start wearing helmets to give the impression of

danger

and thus creating an EXTREME sport that the younger generation will want to pursue.

I was thinking more of a bicycle type helmet so it doesn't screw up your hearing.

I've come in contact with both round and square booms (thankfully at relatively low speeds) and they feel about the same. Kind of like getting hit with a baseball bat vs. a 2x4. You tell me if you can feel the difference <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Given all the things you can hit with your noggin as you tinkerbell toward the foresaty, what type of helmet would offer the best compromise of protection vs. ease of use?

The one

guard

I did find most helpful was the shin and forearm protection integrated in some wetsuits. Seems I was always dragging my shin or forearm against something sharp (daggarboard, shroud, beam bolt, etc.)

Regarding the boom, the spin boats seem to keep the main reasonably taught on the downwinds, so wild boom swinging gybes are pretty rare. Nearly knocked my son out with the TheMightyHobie18 boom a few years ago though.

As for Peter Pans and forestays, your doing it all wrong. If you're going to stuff it, do it right. It has to be hard enough to send them 20ft in front of the boat like I did on the reach at Sarasota. Totally screwed up my trap and cunningham take-up bungies, but my son sure had fun <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> . I still have a sore spot on my thigh where I slammed into the dagger.

I wear a helmet when I mountain bike, and like a seat belt in a car, I feel totally naked without it. I suppose if the right kind of helmet was developed (light, breathable, available brim (like a baseball cap), I suppose I could be talked into it.

I saw the effect of a Infusion pitchpoling and the skipper hit the mast and cracked his kayak helmet. That's when I started shopping for a helmet. Also when my wife started wearing one.

That reminds me: I have an uncle who hit a tree after running over some sand on his motorcycle. The helmet cracked, but he walked away.

People still fight like mad to not have mandatory helmet laws (taking away their

freedom

). Don't know if this has changed, but for the longest time in RI, helmets are required for motorcycle passengers (of any age), but not for the pilots.

Lots of similarities to some points made above.

Mike

I wear a helmet 99% of the time while riding a motorcycle. I don't believe in helmet laws. Its your life, do as you choose. Minors, that's a different story, but if you don't mind your kid being a vegetable, then by all means, let em' skip the helmet. It doesn't need to be legislated.

Same with seatbelt laws. Its my life, I can do with it as I please. I do have a friend that would've been almost certainly killed had he not been thrown out of the car. But to be fair, that is a freak thing

There are those who would make a good case that if your kid becomes a vegetable through your negligence, it's unfair for the rest of the population to have to care for your child the rest of its life (through insurance premiums and taxes), but that's for a different thread.

But, thanks for helping me make the point that mandatory safety rules are extremely unpopular...

Mike

Thinking about it - these days when we do go in (f18 and I presume f16 would be similar), usually both of us are thrown clear of the mast and wind up in the water. By far the biggest danger is the back of the daggers if you catch one on the way thru which is nearly a body impact and can hurt no end. You'd need body armour a-la motorcross to protect you from that one.

Foiling boats?? Hmmm - really depends how much faster they are going I suppose. If they are getting 30+ knots then yeah - may need to rethink this helmet thing.

Here's a hockey helmet with a removable cage, but your crew may want to keep the cage on!

Only $89!

http://www.sportsauthority.com/prod... igkw=Hockey+HElmet&parentPage=search

I remember when Florida went from mandatory motorcycle helmets to optional. The motorcycle accident death rate went from about 45/yr. average up to over 500/yr.

Many years ago I owned a BMW R100S road bike, one day a drunk in a Cadilac T-Boned us (wife on back, 2mo. pregnant) and we flew over his caddy and bounced down US1. As I was bouncing down the road, I watched my wife's head bouncing up and down like a basketball, I was thinking,

Glad I wore my helmet, or this would be very ugly!

Motorcycles aren't that dangerous if you know how to ride, it's the idiots in the cars that will kill you! But I always wore my helmet.

We're going with this model for our junior sailing kids.

http://www.amazon.com/Shred-Ready-Sesh-Water-Helmet/dp/B006NJETFE

I wear a leg knive already for years and the only problem I have had is that it once got stuck in my open net tramp.
While I was hanging half overboard!

I don't wear a helmet, but I once broke my nose by the swinging boom in a break.
But its obvious that a helmet doesn't protect you for a broken nose (except if you use a iron mask protection too)

More than one person has lost or broken teeth in a bad capsize, and there was one close call at the H16s in October this year; so the masks may not be such a bad idea.

And for those of you calculating the risk/reward scenarios; remember, none of this equipment is necessary when things are going along as planned. By definition, this stuff is needed only when everything goes haywire.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Mike

The safest thing would be to not get on a sailboat.