life jackets

I'm using the Zhik pfd. I really like them.

Ill put out a second for the Zhik PFD. The range of motion it's it is really good and it is not as thick as some are on the back which makes it easier to get under the boom. I've about worn one out and am on my second one. I've found it superior to most of the kayaking vests when kayaking too.

Any experience with Zhik wetsuits?
Are they worth the high price in terms of durability/quality?

The hybrid neoprene and fleece is worth the price. I replaced a custom 4 mm spring suit with one. The hybrid is a lot more comfortable and is warmer too. If fact I have had a issue with it being too warm. This year I wore a thin windproof fleeces instead of a dry top, on marginal days, and it was about right.

Having your new wetsuit arrive in a 8.5 by 11 envelope, is a shock. but it does let you know, there is something different. It is not all hype.

Has Zhik gotten around to getting USCG approval for their PFDs? Took Gill forever too.

Mike

I have a pretty old Extrasport which I love, fortunately it has held up great, read on to find out why...

We've been shopping for life jackets for the new helm who is used to sailing college dinghy's, i.e non-trapeze boats. Her old life jacket got thrown out (long story), hence the shopping. Basically none of the USCG approved life jackets fit the bill for a trapeze boat. They all have a ton of padding, especially on the front side that can interfere with the trapeze hook. Apparently the rules were changed recently and the new USCG life jackets have more padding. Like twice as much as my USCG approved Extrasport. Personally I feel these have reduced safety in our particular sport, as mobility and ability to swim out from underneath a capsized boat are reduced.

The Zhik would work great as on a trapeze boat, and is classified as a buoyancy aide. Reading this article it hasn't been an issue in the protest room: http://www.sailingworld.com/gear/the-battle-for-a-better-pfd

Protesting someone for wearing a CE certified life jacket would be very unsportsmanlike.
I've just bought a last year's model Magic Marine PFD (got a 50% discount), its very comfortable and doesn't interfere with both trapeze and the occasional chicken wire:

Absolutely not true. We don't get to pick and choose what rules to enforce or not enforce. Personally, I wear a CE jacket, but I understand the risks associated with it. If someone protests me for it, I'll accept the consequences and move on. However, I will not protest someone for wearing one. That is probably more unsportsmanlike than protesting someone for wearing one because I have chosen to ignore a rule.....twice. Once by wearing the CE jacket, and once by opting to not protest someone that I know is breaking a rule.

Could we include a waiver in the SI's (much like we do for a one turn penalty instead of two for a foul).

CE certified or USCG approved life jackets are permited.

Then you could sleep at night knowing that you didn't face a conundrum <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />

Not sure if you can do that.....

Rule 40 Change rule 40 title to: PERSONAL FLOTATION DEVICES; LIFE-SAVING EQUIPMENT
After rule 40 add
US Sailing prescribes that every boat shall carry life-saving equipment conforming to
government regulations that apply in the racing area. Go to
ussailing.org/racingrules/documents and click the ‘PFD’ link for more information.

Nope, Can't get around this rule because it's set by USCG. That's on the list of rules that can't be changed in the SI's because it's the law of the land.

Nope, Rule 40 cannot be modified by the SI (rule 88.2). There is a way around it per rule 88.2.

US Sailing prescribes that sailing instructions shall not change or delete rule 61.4, Appendix R, or its prescriptions to rules 40, 67, 70.5(a) or 76.1. However, for an international event the prescription to rule 40 may be deleted.

Very interesting on the rules nuances.

Thanks Dave for pointing out the events where protests are more likely are also the larger ones that attract international teams. Does that make them an international event? I.e how is that defined?

Let's see ... hmmm .... our next regatta is the International Summer Sizzler held in Daytona Beach June 22-23.

No Problem.

Oh, BTW, CE AND USCG life jackets approved.

OK, from that highly subjective piece of

jourlanism

I learned that Zhik is trying to get approval.

With all of the hoopla after recent tragedies involving trapeze boats, you'd think the agencies would be looking to improve this.

Of course, if you're knocked out, you're going to wish you were wearing the right vest.

Mike

And a helmet

The best I can do at the moment is:

G1.1 (b)

at all international events, except when the boats are provided to all competitors, national letters denoting her national authority from the table below. For the purposes of this rule, inetnational events are ISAF events, world and contentinental championships, and events described as international events in their notices of race and sailing instructions;

Hmm, so the North American Championships are international right? Considering more Canadians (better bring the bacon!) are currently registered than U.S sailors (I know, I'll get on that in a month or 2).

Here's my thing, if you get knocked unconscious, you're pretty hosed until someone gets to you, or you happen to not be under the boat (fat chance, read the latest accident reports). In these cases, a buoyancy aide should provide enough floatation to keep your head near the waters surface. No Type III PFD is designed to keep your mouth clear of the water, like a Type I that you might be wearing 20+ miles offshore on a 30+' vessel in the same rough conditions you'd get trapped under your beach cat in...

Yes, from the get go it's been an international event. It's called The America's Chapionship this year.

As Mike mentioned, there are some ways around the US Sailing requirement - an International Event which is defined in the ISAF Regulations as,

an event open to entries other than those from the national authority of the venue or any event organized in more than one country.

If you expect competitors from Canada or Puerto Rico (we're talking an event in North America), the following language needs to be in the NOR under the

rules

section:

But you're not done yet. Some class rules (Hobie Class) also require PFDs to be approved in the country of origin or jurisdiction - which means USCG in the US. So in addition to the above statement (which gets repeated in the SIs), you need the following language in the

Protests

section of the SIs:

Often, the judges will have an issue with this, but since the RC drafts the SIs (not the judges), they will have to live with it - and you need to convince them to stay out of the issue (because they can still protest a boat). I did it with Means, and even he (Mr. Risk Management) was OK with it.

Of course, if you get pulled over for an inspection by the USCG and don't have a USCG approved PFD, you're going to get a ticket, no matter what the SIs say. One way around (most) everything is to wear what you like and stash a USCG PFD somewhere on the boat where it's out of the way.

Back to the original OP's question, though - there are some unique requirements in Australia (did ya notice where he's from?) that may exclude a some of our favorite vests, including that they be a bright color (red).

Unless you're talking about a different Mike, it wasn't me that mentioned the work-arounds, because I don't believe in them.

I personally think that US Sailing should not be in the business of doing anything but supporting whatever the current USCG regs require, period. The USCG reg already handles sailors from outside of the country, there is absolutely no reason to make additional changes (such as deleting the prescription). They should simply direct sailors to the reg in question.

I think all of these changes make the entire thing more difficult for people to accept, and OAs to enforce.

Don't take this as a vote for PFDs that suck. I'd rather see efforts be made to work with the USCG to fix this, as they are the actual authority in this area.

Mike

I have been present when the RC was compelled by a competitor to file protest on a sailor wearing a CE vest. The RC thought they had it covered by making that rule non-protestable by a competitor. They didn't. The RC protested within the time limit on the last day and it was upheld. Because the SIs indicated that the penalty could be something other than a DSQ, the sailor received a percentage penalty that robbed her of the 1st place position at the regatta, rewarding the sailor who made the issue who had been in 2nd.

Like Karl said, you have to accept the possible outcome if you choose to break a rule. I wear a Zhik PFD to all events except the Alter Cup. I know what I could be in for. I'm pretty sure that the Alter Cup is the only event where people will do just about anything, including protesting a PFD to win.

What's the problem with sticking a USCG certified inflatable vest or cheap orange horseshoe vest in the hull to cover your bases and wear your CE vest. That meets USCG regs. Wearing it is usually a race rule not a coast guard rule, unless your under age (13?).

edit: Just saw Matt already addressed this.

According to Mike Krantz the process to be CG approved is lengthy, meticulous and EXPENSIVE. maybe he'll explain it here.

Todd, that MAY save you from getting a ticket, although you can still be cited if the PFD isn't

readily accessible,

but always carefully check the SIs on this issue: US SAILING frequently requires the USCG PFD be

worn

and not just

carried.

I'd like to know how a competitor

compelled

the RC to protest. The RC may (permissive) protest a boat (60.2) and only shall (must) protest a boat when they

receive a report required by rule 43.1(c)(clothing weight) or 78.3 (class rule compliance)

(RRS 60.2)

Offline chat... beer SHALL be required.

Beer is good.

You guys just made my point. Every time US Sailing (or some well-intentioned OA or RC) decides that they are smarter than the RRS or USCG, it becomes hell for everyone involved.

I can think of some scenarios where the RC would feel pressured to file, but would love to hear this too, so I can watch out for similar nonsense.

Mike