Nacra A3?

I was looking at the site the other day as well and saw that. All this A3 all over the page but nothing to really explain WTF it is. Can't imagine there is already a second generation A2 eh? One of the pics looks like one of them is being sailed 2-up.

What about the Hobie A-cat, anybody ever heard anything about that since its announcement ?

Wouter

Interesting.

If anyone would like to see how a Nacra A2 hull is built, Performance cats has a nice PowerPoint presentation of the hull lay-up here .

GARY

It's been shelved, according to Jeremy Evans, in the latest Yachts and Yachting.

So what boat will Hobie market to the single handed sailor?

They tried to end the H17, so that they would have enough spare parts to support the boat in future years and the FX 1 never really got started. The A cat project would have put them in the game with the fastest growing and geographically most widely accepted class.

Mark

Gary - check you link - not working

Work from here: http://nacra.us/A2/making.html
See A2 Slide Show.

The Y & Y article stated that, apart from the Tiger, Hobie Europe are concentrating on the rotomoulded beach cats.

And it is now titled the Nacra A2/A3.

So I am assuming the A3 is an evolution of the A2. Things move fast in A cat land.

Pete Melvin brought a new boat the North Americans that had both the front beam and the daggerboard trunk moved further aft than previous boats (about 6"). He had also added a fairing in front of the front beam. Subtle changes at best.

Bob Hodges
USACA

I could be wrong but I seem to recall Performance working on an F-18 class design with A2 hydrodynamic princples a while back to be dubbed the A3.

Is the article on line? Can you post a link?

http://nacraa2.com/Nacra%20A2%20Hull%20Infusion%5B1%5D.ppt
Reparied Link How the Nacra A2 hull is built.

There are 2 pages of UK and European

Cat Stuff

in the latest Yachts and Yachting. Jeremy Evans is the author. I pobably shouldn't be copying it, but I will put in the whole section on Hobie, so that people will not say that I was quoting selectivly from it.

The dear old Tiger seems to have bounced back in catsailors' estimation as the most reliable allround performer in Formula 18. Despite this year's challenges from younger designs like the Capricorn and Infusion, Hobie Cat Europe insisted they had no intention of replacing the oldest F18 still available, which originally appeared in 1995. Hobie have kept the Tiger up to speed by employing a handful of the world's best catsailors to race and develop the boat, with steady updates and innovations over the years.
The most obvious novelty on the 2007 Tiger will be new rudder blades designed by Mitch Booth, which are instantly recognisable with fatter tips, concaves at the trailing edge and a profile that kicks under the transom with broad 'shoulders' for added strength. Steve Beard, who runs Hobie Cat UK based in Poole Harbour, went sailing with Mitch and his new daggers in strong winds off Hyeres. He says it took him about 30 seconds to feel the difference which is more precise and smooth steering, making the Tiger even easier to handle.
Other Tiger updates include the fully battened jib with no roller-furling which is now class legal for F18 from 2007. Full length battens should ensure that the jib lasts longer since it won't flap, with a design that is really not so different from the fully battened jibs that Mitch and his crew Herb Dercksen used to win the F18 worlds in 2000 and 2001. It's curious that Mitch was accused of 'cheating' or at least distorting the rules and his fully battened jibs were formally banned by the F18 association straight after the 2001 event. Six years later, they've done a U-turn and welcomed this 'innovation'.
In other areas, Hobie Cat Europe seem to be edging away from hardcore competitive stuff. The Hobie A-Class cat was shelved and both the all carbon Fox and FX-One have remained one-off 'concept cats'. Hobie's big market is still the beach (or at least the dream of a beach) worldwide, with the 1969 vintage Hobie 16 still the third best-selling sailboat of all time, behind the Sunfish and Laser.
While Hobies are built in the USA, Australia, South Africa and Brazil, the independent French owned Hobie Cat Europe has led the way with high volume recreational cats such as the Hobie 15 and a line of rotomoulded beach cats for all sizes and ages. One of their main competitors has been the Dart 16, newly uprated with twin wires and three sails. By Christmas, we should also see the first of three new rotomoulded Toppers, all designed by Yves Loday. This will be a 16ft cat, currently being refined by Rob White down in Brightlingsea, with twin wires, kite and 'loads of volume' so you can take the whole family for a blast! Two 14ft cats will be launched using the same hull shape in spring 2007. One will be a twin-wire, three-sail cat for junior sailors; the other a single trapeze adult singlehander, also sporting a kite. It seems we're due for a beach cat war between Dart, Hobie and Topper - may the best cat win!

Bob,

I'd call moving the beam and centerboards aft 6 inches more than a subtle change.

Bill

thats exactly what the Dart 16 needed. A spin and twin traps.

Now it only needs some more platform and hull stiffness and some proper boards and .... Gee, then they'll have ended up with the same 3 sails glass beach cat that they were trying to replace with the tupperware rotomolded vessels.

Conclusion; they could just have skipped this whole polyethyleen stage and produced a proper beach cat from the get go !

And ohh !

Well, shouldn't that be :

may the least bad tupperware design win"

And then we can watch the contest between that winner and an old school 16 ft glass, 3 sails, double trapeze beach cat like say the F16 !

I wonder which will win that contest.

Wouter

Wouter

Urm.... I think it's called a Spitfire.....

From the USA perspective.

This scares me. I re-read this several times. Regarding Hobie worldwide an the introduction of new product I glean this; development of the Tiger continues (applause here); Fox and FX One all carbon shelved and NOTHING else cooking. We know Hobie USA is content riding the successful sales of the rotomolding process boats. Now other European manufacturers are following suit? I expect Hobie to stand pat and do nothing.

My interpretation of this is the high performance fiberglass (or Kevlar, or carbon) catamaran becomes an increasingly more finite group. How can this do anything but drive costs up? Even for the Hobie 16? The entry level boat pool is aging and older boats are just that, old and worn out. The chances of an affordable, LIGHT WEIGHT, high performance, boat for the boomer and the young crowd, IMO, is dwindling. Even if I was not so enamered with racing I'd still want a light boat I can singlehand and move easily that is fast (A class or F16 or something new?).

WOULD have been great for me and others in

geographicly challenged

areas. The big fleets here are Hobie 20, and/or Hobie 16 (North) and/or singlehanded Hobie 17 (South). I'm spoiled with the speed of the 20, but I can't/won't afford/justify the price of a new A or 16 and suffer the depreciation just for a boat to play with (no fleets here), so I need churn.

This rotomolded

revolution

is the wrong kind of churn.

<img src=

alt=

/>

It doesn't look good.

I say don't worry. Those rotomoulded thingies won't be anything other then rentals and kids boats. I have yet to see one actually sail in an event. I did see two of them at a place where there is also a sailing school for small kids. Never mind I was there with about 60 glass cats doing a race series.

Those tupperware boats will never graps the imagination of our thrill seeking youngster of today. The material just isn't right. It goes

wobble

and

pfumpf

when you press on it or hit it. Really gusy today youngster want flashy products and thus tupperware boats just aren't it.

How many mono tupperware boats do you see around ? Heck overhere we need to compete with splashes and 29-ers. Those boats LOOK the part. I'm still expecting to see 80 % of those tupperware boats ending up in some backyard gethering moss after the kids sailed it for one or two times. Again, I have yet to see one actually enter an event or participate in a class event of their own.

I'm really amazed these boat are truly selling so well as I never see them anywhere. So where are they going ?

Wouter

Rick??

Since getting back into sailing as of Spring 2005, I've seen three or four Getaways (may have been same boat twice, I didn't pay that much attention, and actually one started and raced with H16's at Mid-America's), four different Waves and two Bravos. (South Dakota, Iowa, Kansas, Oklahoma)

Conversely, in that same time I've seen four Tigers (at Mid-America's, the Gulf Coast crew), one FX One and a home-build (200#) A Class. We saw 50 glass boats at the 18/20 Nationals. Average TOTAL boat count at a Hobie regatta is 21.

The dealers are saying the rotoboats

Are selling like hotcakes!

Granted, they're not racing here either. So what will grab the attention of a thrill seeking, Mid West, young person? I don't see an answer coming from Hobie, which is predominant here as far as multihull racing goes. Guess they'll sail a HP dinghy, wind surf or kite board.

Actually, Hunter is building a whole line of monohull daysailors from rotomolded plastics (http://www.huntermarine.com/Models/DaysailersIndex.html).

However, I agree that it appears that Hobie is not focusing so much on the fiberglass racer market but can you blame them? The rotomolded boats they are making are going to resorts and hotels - businesses that are buying 10, 20, or more boats with one check and these places are obviously pretty pleased with the product. Hobie is going where their higher profit is. It's not great for our racing, but we shouldn't be concerned because there are other manufacturers, or new manufacturers, who will continue to support our market as long as we keep buying boats....which brings up a point, if we had continued to purchase 17s and 18s in a large volume, it's a safe bet that Hobie would still be making them. The fact that we're not buying these boats anymore is evidence that the market shifted from strict Hobie one-designs for boats that are focused on recent technology or at the very least, shiny new designs. I think a couple of lost attempts at development and a strong market with the rotomolded boats has them shifting their focus away from the racers (with the exception of the successful Tiger). In my opinion, looking at the Tiger, they need to be cautious - although I think it is still a great performing platform, it sure is surrounded by a lot of new and interesting development and their market will certainly continue soften unless something new happens.

The market is no longer what Hobie was built on - not as many people are buying a Hobie to have a Hobie. We're afflicted by shiny-itus more than ever before and there are a significant number of brands to choose from now.

I'll bet the H16 is very profitable! How many

bugs

can be left in the production process?

Wouter,
The Dart 16 is actually a good boat for what it was designed for. I sailed mine in a very shoally inlet, with lots of bars with breaking waves over sand bars and I loved it.

Yes, I moved up to bigger, faster and lighter boats, but I cant sail my HT or my Acat in this shoally, spot with out worrying about breaking the boards off.

Sometimes no boards it a good thing.

I kind of wish I'd never sold the Dart, yeah it was too heavy and sat too low in the water, and wasnt as fast as my other boats, but I never had to fix anything on it and I could take all my non-sailing friends for rides and all they had to do was hang out on the trap. And I could take it out in the surf, and sail over sand bars, and sail it right up on the beach when breaking wavers were big.

Long live the Dart 16.

Bill

Check out the post on the F16 forum that you participated in and you'll see that the were as many Dart 16 racing as F16's at Eastbourne.

http://www.catsailor.com/forums/showflat...rt=all&vc=1

In the UK the

tupperware

Darts are popular boats that are raced hard.

Giving them a derogatory name won't change that fact. I spoke to a buyer from a holiday company who said they would never buy a GRP boat again as they are too fragile and their customers love the Darts.

Gareth

I agree with Bill and Gareth. I have sold over 30 Dart 16s in Ireland. We have 10 at my Club and another club has 16. Most of them are raced - maybe not as fanatically as the Spitfires and Formula 18s. We had 9 at our Nationals.
One guy, who is on his 2nd Dart 16, now wants the new version. He could have a Spitfire, but he likes a cat that he can knock around a bit <img src=

alt=

/> .
If I bring a cat on holidays, it is always the Dart 16, not the Spitfire. I feel safer in the open sea (where there are no rescue facilities) in a cat where I can easily reef the main and roll the jib, if the wind gets up.

Bill,

When I saw the change, I thought it had the potential to result in a significant difference. The reality was it did not seem to make a big difference (good or bad) in the conditions we had but it could make the boat easier and more forgiving in big breeze and big waves.

BTW, where the hell were you???? You built that new baby and did not bring her to the big party! George Saunder's boat is beautiful, he is a real craftsman and innovator.

Bob

I heard George's boat was nice. I couldnt get away from work, I would have loved to be with you guys in Bristol.

I only got to sail 2 tuesday night races all year.

I'm going to try to make it to Florida this winter for the really big party.

Bill