Hobie has a bigger decision to make than prohibiting open class sailing at Hobie sanctioned regattas.
That decision is:
Design new boats that are on the top end of the market, simple to rig and low on maintenance, capable and durable enough to sail in coastal waters with 20+ winds ranges and sizable chop, and price them aggressively.
The past boats were fine boats but it is time to develop new products because of new knowledge (even this is getting old) and building material.
They need a new
16 footer - present Hobie 16 needs to be replaced with a stiff full volume symetrical hulled boat, boards maybe maybe not, better rudder system, new mast, crossbars, and hardware.
18 Hobie Tiger is a good boat that does not need replacing (could be lighten up but class rules restrict such things) . This boat needs to be manufactured in the US or Mexico. With the manufacturing in europe, currency x-rates are effecting prices and the buyer (nor Hobie) cannot afford 20% price swings.
20 footer - Miracle needs to be replaced. This was an attemp at copying the P19 but the boat should be replaced and a new 20 footer developed.
Fox needs to be discontinued. Their is no choice between an I-20 and a Fox and the market has spoken.
A new Hobie 21 needs to be introduced for the big boys who want powerful boats. A market exists for a boat that can handle the 500 plus pound sailing teams that love cat sailing. These guys love all that sail area and extra wide beam with wings. Hobie just needs to lighten up the monster by 125 pounds, design a hull that does not leak, and increase hull volume. The boat would sell if it existed.
Other Hobie's I do not have first hand experience with.
I challenge Hobie or Performance to really design the next generation 20 footer with spinnaker and put a list price on it for $12,500 and I will buy it.
Actually, Performance Catamarans has brought out new models or updated old designs but they have room for improvement also.
In our Division book, the Open Class PAYS for an ad for a distance race. Goodbye to that. Another Hobie fleet gets a free ad for an open class distance race; goodbye to that ad too. Seems pointless and painful to me.
I 100% agree with you Hobie boat assessment. I think here in the midwest we have the last pocket of Hobie 20 sailors around. People really like their H20s. Interestingly enough, the H16 races have grown a little the past two years.
I have never been a fan of the Hobie 16, so when I hear someone else say "new 16 footer", my pom-poms are in the air. I am a huge fan of the Getaway and Nacra 5.2's. I could see a version of the Getaway with a taller mast being popular to race. There are some people that are just married to H16's though.
I think racing is going to the Formula classes and to long distance races. If Hobie is going to create new boats for racing, they will have to design them under those regulations. That is something Hobie seems to have a problem with right now. They have the "fun" factor down pat with the Wave, Bravo and Getaway.
Price is always an issue. Most of us like the cats because of the price vs performance aspect. We know Hobie is making a crap load on all of their products. The boats are prob. their lowest margin items. Investment on return...
I suppose they could drop the Fox, H16, H17, TheMightyHobie18, H20. Before hand they better have something ready to go. They could send letters out to all fleets announcing a 2-yr phase out of H16's for a new F16 that can be Uni-rigged or sloop rigged. Maybe a buy-back program. Then maybe for-go the F-20's for now and make a new "big-boy" boat.
There's a reason why, when I tell people I sail a catamarn, they say "Ohhh! you sail a Hobie!?". It's because darn near every catamaran event in the U.S., the signs that point to it, the shirts and hats associated with it, and the articles written about it has the flying H stamped on them. They are giving up an incredible amount of market exposure by forcing the x-boats to sort out their own organization that will be inclusive of everyone (and we will).
Flounder, I also agree that the U.S. market is ripe for a particular boat to hit the market. A survey would probably give a better indication than my opinion, but my opinion is that a new F16 complient platform made in the U.S. at a reasonable price is the sweet spot. We've seen how the Tiapan 4.9 exploded and they are hard to get as are any of the other F16s. We've also seen a strong trend toward a relatively low tech formula in the F18 and it's growing stronger than anything we've seen in quite some time. I think formula is where the future lies. It's obvious that the open classes have been growing and splintering from OD racing for some time - Formula is the next step in the evolution.
Keith,
You have great points, no need to re-state them here. Hobie is making a huge mistake here, it is a great opportunity for NAMSA to take the reigns and design a system that everybody will be happy with.
Ken,
As you were priveleged to hear Paul speak, did he give any insight as to what to do when 4 17s and 4 18s show up to an event? They do not constitute a class, thus are we to send them home? I was planning on taking my FX-1 to a NAHCA event or two to show those that haven't seen one and spurn some interest in it. If there is no X-class......am I racing against myself? I guess I won't be showing up to any Div 4 events now. Did he/they indicate how on earth they plan on BUILDING NAHCA (or HCA or whatever) or are they just ignoring that?
I gotta say, this is one of the dumbest things I've ever seen an organization do. Most businesses, when dying, do not limit their income and exposure........that equals death. I look for NAHCA to be dead in two years max....possibly one.
I think Rick has the best idea, to have NAMSA jump in and determine what the masses want. We have NAMSA events with points leading to a qualification to the NAMSA nationals or some system like that. It would take some work, but there is now a void for a lot of sailors that should be filled. I joined NAMSA last year and will be happy to re-up my membership as opposed to NAHCA, HCA or whatever.
Kip
Boise, ID
TheMightyHobie18
FX-1
It will be interesting to see how this plays out. The devil
is always in the details.
For instance: In the current preliminary Div. 4 schedule,
the Vancouver Yacht Club Waves regatta is listed as a "points" event. This would indicate that it is "sanctioned". Well, Waves (a really cool event) is open
to all sorts of boats, everything from Lasers and Opti's to big boats. If the yacht club decides to have a seperate start for other cats, does this leave the Div. 4 open to legal action from INCA? And if so, would Hobie acually take
any legal action against their own Div. or members? More likely they just take the "points" note out of the listing.
But must they also remove the listing? Are they now unable to affiliate with yacht clubs that allow other types of boats, of just other types of cats? Questions not easily answered, but must be some how addressed in some sort of official policy that has yet to be written
For us X classers, it will mean that we will have to persue other avenues. Someone wrote that Laser events are
exclusivly Laser. Wrong. At the local level they are more
than happy to split costs with other fleets. Yacht clubs are
usually more than happy to take on more boats too.
Ya know folks, I haven't laughed this hard in a while!
Insurance you say?? US Sailing.
Sounds like someone went to sleep at the wheel of their Chevy to wake up and realize everyone have been driving Chryslers for 10 years!!!
IMHO,
Bob 
LOL
Time to move into the Inter-20.....
I think it’s a great time for the Hobie class.
I don’t know of any other sailing class that has gone through so much to help their competition. It’s surprising to me that it took the Hobie Class 10 years to find their way after taking a wrong turn.
If you read through the letters you will see that the Hobie class doesn’t wish any ill will towards X class sailors or their classes. At the same time the Hobie class has decided that they are going to focus on their own needs.
The Hobie class knows full well that they will be a smaller organization. But what’s the point of being big just for the sake of being big if you are not working towards your mission?
It wasn’t that long ago that I attended my first Hobie regatta with my “new to me” Hobie 16. One of the Mid-West hot shots was there that I had met previously at an A cat event. “You got one of those things” he said. Yes Mary it is true. I will say this guy is a good guy but he just doesn’t get it. It’s not about having the fastest boat on the water. Always wanting the newest fastest thing was what killed windsurfing and it has stunted the growth of cat sailing for years. What are the biggest sailing classes in the country? They’re boats like the Lightning and the Laser. Why are they so successful? Not because they are the next high tech thing on the market. They thrive because they have the best class organization and they run FUN events. Hobie has one of the best sailing class associations in the country and some of the most FUN events. They made a wrong turn when they decided to give the milk away for free. They have decided to take a new path. It will hurt at first there is no doubt but recovery is never a one step process.
To the X classers out there I say good luck. I wish you well, and when you have 70 boats at the North Americans and over 100 at your World Championships, I’ll be right there with you.
Bob Merrick
Rick,
Time to send out the 2004 dues notice for NAMSA. Please include a sticker.
GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!GO NAMSA!
ok Rick,
Its time to get going with NAMSA! Tell us what we have to do...
Rhodysail(Bob Merrick) is right on with his assessment.New classes come and go.you will always have those people jumping from one class to another to keep up with technology,but in the end most of these classes will die out.What is the sense of having the fastest boat, if you have no one to race against.Strong classes like the Hobie 16 & Laser are classics.They have and will continue to endure the test of time.The reason is simple.Great boats simple design emphases on TALENT NOT TECHNOLOGY which is a point current ISAF president Paul Henderson is trying to drive home.In fact in one of his latest statements he gave a vote of confidents to the hobie 16 with spi as an olympic class
Mike Madge
And that is what is so great about an all-encompassing organization that doesn't care what brand you drive.
Kip,
The way Div 4 handles less than five boats in a fleet is to race any Hobie, no mater how few. Small groups may and will be started together, but they will NOT be scored together. No times are taken. So the fleets with 1, 2, or 3 boats may start with each other, but are not racing the other class boats. Bring your FX, but you will not be racing any other Hobies.
Mark,
The answers to these questions are clearly laid out. The Waves regatta has a seperate course for the Hobies to sail on. The X-class can sail at Waves, but must be on one of the other courses. There can be no overlapping of any marks, start lines, etc. at the Waves event. Those fleets that were planning fun sails with other classes of boats (including monohull) have been taken off the schedule and will not be allowed to advertise their event in the Division publication.
Bob,
US Sailing insurance is a great program. For a club or active group, it is a no brainer. But what of the fleet that only wants to put on one event. Close to $800 for both on and off the water coverage.
Ken
Jake,
While the Taipan is a very fine boat, I have bigger explosions when I eat beans.
There are 12 members of the US Taipan Association, all 4 officers positions are still unfilled.
The Chairman of the U.S. F16HP Class was Kirt Simmons.
He last posted 8 months ago under a new name flyer_usa_185.
He has apparently switched back to the A Class, but he has the boat for sale on the A Class website.
The F16 website now lists Jennifer Lindsey as the F16 East Rep and Eric poulsen as the F16 West Rep.
The Boyer website lists 3 U.S. "Agents" The Cat House(Mark Biggers), Sailfastusa(Chip Zenke) and Sunjammers(Brad Stephens).
None of them advertise the Taipans. Only Chip Zenke claims to have a 2003 boat in stock.
Several of the first Taipan owners have already re-sold their boats.
My point is, just because it is a good boat and is popular in another country does not mean it is going to be popular in America.
What market niche does the Taipan 4.9(f16) fill?
The only thing low-tech about the F18 is the weight of the hulls, not their design.
As a Div 10 racer in one of the named evil fleets I have provided a clarification to the 3rd paragraph IHCA letter:
Since this time some regattas have included open class racing, mostly in Michigan, Florida and a few other places on the east coast. The practice has allowed racing throughout the east, particularly in Divisions 8 and 10 to survive. In both divisions Hobie fleets were abandoned and sailors revived racing through open class racing. Contrary to the NAHCA’s criteria sailors took over the administration of their fleets. In some cases the new multi-hull associations composed of open class fleets are stronger than ever. There is a strong indication that this practice is starting to spread to other divisions as well, and in our self interests we feel strongly about stopping it.
Mike,
Hobie 16, Mystere 4.3, Inter 20
P.S. Hobie: I have a Hobie lifejacket still in the shrinkwrap. If you want it back, give me a call. You pay the shipping and you can have the H16 back too:-)
I find it funny you think Hobie is the only club that can muster more than 50 or so boats....The A cats have been doing that for the same amount of time.....and are growing!
Caution what you wish for...
Cheers
If it's truly talent, not technology, and stopping emphasis on the fastest boats, then why add a spinnaker to the Hobie-16? Takes away from the simple design... Seems to me there's another message there.
From what I see, one of the biggest components of the Open Class tends to be people new to the sport. They found a used boat for an affordable price and are looking to see if they like these things. They'll move up if they do. They'll move on if they don't. Most I know in this category wouldn't even give it a shot if the outlay was too high or the club too exclusive. You know, high-tech boats like Prindle-16s and 18s, Hobie-18s, NACRA 5.2s and the like.
Caution what you wish for...
Cheers
The A cat looks like a great class, but when did they have 50 boats at a North American regatta other than the world championships?
With a 1020 views, 50 plus replies and only a few H16 supporter for one design, I think you could say, Hobie has stepped on it big time.
All we (cat sailors/club race organizer) are trying to do, is conduct races, have fun and bring new sailors to the sport (we hold Rick White sailing classes at our club and other instruction). And now we may get sued by Hobie because we are promoting the sport.
Check out our club home page, we are promoting a Hobie Points Regatta, F18 East Coast Championship (Tigers welcome), The Wave nationals and the great open "X" event the Statue of Liberty race.( http://www.fleet250.org/ ).
It's like where's waldo, can you find how many times we break (on our home page) the new "Hobie Way of Life" of promoting regattas?
Soooo....I'm a relative newbe, so maybe my voice doesn't count as much, but Sign me up for NAMSA!!! I started out on a Hobie 18 last year and really liked the boat, but sailing aside, I always had a bit of an issue with Hobie's heavy handed tactics. This just goes as solid proof that my concerns were well founded. For those (VERY few..) that seem to be defending Hobie's tactics, I really don't understand your "exclusionary" mindset. Competition amongst manufacturers can only be good for consumers. I also believe Formula and open class racing is the future, and is the right way to go. If a manufacturer (ANY of them..) cannot attract new buyers through quality products designed to meet the needs and desires of it's market and solid marketing to generate demand (which seems to be sadly missing with all of our manufacturers imho), then they deserve to lose out. Resorting to strongarm tactics is simply BAD business. While I will continue to welcome sailors on all cats, all I can say to Hobie, is "good riddance" because this is the beginning of the end for them (again imho). Again, my comment is directed at a manufaturer, not to those who choose to sail their products for a variety of very good reasons.
Let's see.....NAHCA/HCA - for Hobie's only....or....NAMSA - for ALL Cat Sailors. Simple choice for me...and to think there are "Hobie only" diehards out there who accuse "others" of being "exclusive"!!! Things that make yua go "Hmmmmm"!! Sounds like Hobie just did a good thing for NAMSA!!
See y'all on the race course....as long as it's NOT a HCA race course!!
Joe
Well, it looks like there will be reason to see t-shirts like I saw and wore in the early '80s: "I'd rather sail the box a NACRA came in than a Hobie Cat." Anybody else remember those? Some folks substituted their brands for NACRA in the phrase. I was thinking of trading my P-19 for a Hobie Fox too but coercion makes me run the other way. Guess the other guys are building better products and Hobie doesn't want to play any more.
I have no doubt that all you Hobie folks will be most welcome at the open regattas across the country. Three of a kind makes a fleet? There you go. Join the fun, sail what you like and keep the corporate bullies out.
This kind of policy can do no good for the industry. Big groups attract people, not the brand. Somebody mentioned that Hobie is what most people call all beach cats. Everybody calls sailboards windsurfers but how many windsurfer brand sailboards do you see these days. My parents generation called all refrigerators fridgidares and all vacuum cleaners hoovers.
Nobody new to something knows brands, just what somebody else called 'em.
'nuff said.
Salud 
This has gotta be one of the most pitiful things I've ever read. It's all about greed, and I for one am ashamed of those behind it. Otherwise reasonable people, some of whom I've had the privelage to personally meet, who are driven by the bottom line. How sad.
It sort of reminds of so many long forgotten jr. high and high school cliques. You can't be part of our group, unless you're just like us.
At Bald Eagle regattas, we have always welcomed our "open class brothers and sisters" with open arms. Maybe someone with more history than me can speak as to whether or not any of them were converts. I have made some of the best friends of my life through this sport, and I'm a relative newcomer myself, as I've only been at this since 1998. I'm still not nearly the competitor I'd like to be, but no one ever turned me away when I was dead last on the most delapitated Hobie 16 that you've ever seen. How many other things have I been part of where if you didn't measure up, you were ostracized and shunned. Now some people are trying to tell us we should act like the worst of the worst from our jr and sr high school memories. Talk about pathetic!
As I sit and write this, and think of some my open class friends who I'm supposedly now supposed to shun, it leaves a sick feeling in my gut.
Our club is having its regatta in a new location this year, which we are very excited about. One of the things I am personally very excited about it is that we will once again have the opportunity to plant a seed in an area of our fine state where there was once many catamaran regattas, including several open class regattas. As Commodore of the Bald Eagle Yacht Club (seperate and distinct from Hobie Fleet 52, of which I am not speaking for), I look forward to spreading my love of this sport to another part of Minnesota. We will find a way to be welcoming to anyone with a sailboat that floats, with or without NAHCA. If they think that I for one will have anything to do with turning anyone away, they can guess again, or better yet, they can fly out here to Minnesota and do there own dirty work of being unwelcoming to an enthusiastic newcomer!
How sad that they would think for even a moment that they could ask us to turn people away on their behalf. Hobie Cat Company, I still love ya, but I'm ashamed of you, and you should be ashamed of yourself. There are other ways to increase the sales of Hobies, and to make racing a better experience. I suggest you go back to your marketing classes and figure out what those methods are.
Respectfully,
Tim D. Johnson
Commodore, Bald Eagle Yacht Club
White Bear Lake, MN
Ken,
Thanks for taking the time to reply. Last year, the closest race was 300 miles, this year it will be further. What is the point of driving that distance to sail against myself? I can sail here against a variety of cats. If I were to go and RACE against a variety of designs including other Hobies who were not fortunate enough to garner a class, I'd be happy to sail against them.......but to sail against noone........Not gonna happen.
What now happens to the increasing amount of sailors in the NW with A-cats or with your F18HT? I guess they get excluded from 60% of the cat races in the NW? That's sad. I certainly don't see that as increasing cat sailing. I know HCA isn't in this to promote cat sailing, but the more cat sailors, the more Hobie sailors. Not too many people will be interested in joining a group that has 5 boats on the line.
We here in Boise were contemplating starting a new Hobie fleet, as our numbers have been on the rise. Axe that idea, it will be a cat club, no exclusions.
If the Cascade Locks race is still portsmouth, you might see me there, otherwise, I'll stay and promote our local membership.
Kip
Boise, ID
TheMightyHobie18
FX-1
Also, in our area, CRAC supports the local Hobie Fleets by association and through promoting some of the regattas, as well as helping to run them. Checking the CRAC schedule for 2004 shows 5 or 6 races that will now be dates open in the CRAC schedule. The Hobie Fleets in question certainly cannot now risk being associated with CRAC.
Possible replacements - a F18 and an A-Cat invitational could fill two of them. With X-Class starts. Also, the new distance race proposed in Ocean City has new dates open to it.
Keep in mind that this policy seems to be coming from the IHCA down. Last time I got to spend any time with the IHCA President I left with the impression that he was less than mentally stable.
This policy is evidence that he has now come completely unhinged.
It is very sad indeed. He once did good things for the sport of sailing.
Sam,
Good to see you back in the fray! Like I said, it's an opinion...I still thing there's a market for a 16 footer than can equally be single or double handed (with chute). Don't get me wrong, I love my 20 footer but we're big boys.
Amen brother!