This struck me as a little curious -
Two part mast
Presumably something to do with -
Able to be shipped in a 6.1m (20ft) container
?
There's something about isolating the mast? like a crap/comp tip? YUCK!
Nope..
They want a comp tip!
Hmm... who was making the case that the Hobie 16 was the boat they want!....
<img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" />
How much of a savings is there on 20 foot containers.... and not the standard 40 foot box we are familiar with? Obviously... the idea is that teams could afford the smaller box and do the world-wide circuit.
I think Riba was making and selling two part carbon masts for the Bim 18HT? Do I have that correct?
They are clever.... they stop the alu mast BS right at the begining... that was a fundamental problem for the T class so they are not making that mistake again. They take the F18 class completely out of the picture. Not to mention every racing class in the world EXCEPT the USA Hobie 16.
Hmm.... do the powers that be think that Carbon sticks are sufficiently electrically safe... They must!
I think Riba was making and selling two part carbon masts for the Bim 18HT? Do I have the correct?
They are clever.... they stop the alu mast BS right at the begining... that was a fundamental problem for the T class so they are not making that mistake again. They take the F18 class completely out of the picture. Not to mention every racing class in the world EXCEPT the USA Hobie 16.
Hmm.... do the powers that be think that Carbon sticks are sufficiently electrically safe... They must!
Carbon is a better conductor than aluminum.
2 piece mast, non-conductor,flotation to leave freeboard when holed,...
So much for a cutting edge choice, unless some builders and designers really sharpen their pencils and get at it.
Dang, missed that electrically conductive part when I first read the rules, that is straight up tailor made for a H16 and complete and utter B.S.
I would think you just need an insulating material, not necessarily the need to replace the mast with a non-conductive material?
Maybe the ISAF just want to get the most popular beach cat in the world ushered into the Olympics? I really have little desire to race a H16 w/ spin around the course when there are so many better boats out there already.
Sam, you're still not reading well. The Hobie 16 doesn't meet all the criteria, firstly - there's no conspiracy. Secondly and more important, the criteria includes provision for 40-foot containers and the score color-coding makes it clear that a submission need not meet every criterion.
Any class or manufacturer can submit whatever they choose.
Does the H16 meet this
athletically challenging to the elite sailors of the world
?
athletically challenging to the elite sailors of the world
?
That's a pretty insulting comment. You ever sail a 16 in big breeze and waves?
The top of the weight range is 308 lbs.
That really drops the boats to the 16 foot range.. (unless the builders down size the rigs on the 18 and 20 footers.
Still... the boat that meets the criteria today is the Hobie 16's with comp tips and spins used for the ISAF youth worlds in Cork...(looking at one at my club now)
I would have like to have seen a bit more on the performance standards to meet... Not falling apart in 30k... is a bit of a broad standard.
So you're basically saying only the T will do?
How many couch potatoes do you see sailing at the top of the H16 class? Come on people would a H16 w/spin at the olympics be the end of the world? It's still great sailors doing amazing things. I guarantee you the non-sailing public isn't going to give two sh!ts what it's on. When the rubber hits the road there are way more poeple familiar with a H16 than any other multihull on the planet.
What other Olympic classes satisfy the insulation criterion?
athletically challenging to the elite sailors of the world
?
That's a pretty insulting comment. You ever sail a 16 in big breeze and waves?
Would you be more insulted if he went after this:
Does the H16 meet this
have visual appeal for spectators, media and sailors
<img src="<>/wink.gif" alt="wink" title="wink" height="15" width="15" />
Mike
Wow... another scary moment. Dave and I agree again!
The public will tune in every four years for a week. The boats will never look like the AC boats that are now defining the pinnacle of the sport and occasionally make the news. The olympic mixed multihull will be a week long competition and then it will fade away until the next cycle. The public will cheer for their countryman... just like I cheer for the US curling team..... (I don't care about the rocks they push.) Mixed events are unusual though.
Times are changing... For us cat sailors...In the past... the Olympic T class development drove a lot of the development that trickled down to the SMOD classes and then the Formula Classes. The Olympic boat and sailors mattered to us as the biggest baddest boat that required the best sailors... In a Mixed event Hobie 16 with spin future... Development will not be an issue.... those mixed teams will just go racing at the seven or so ISAF grade I events on 16 foot boats. Will they be the best cat sailors in the world? ... Probably not with the America's Cup running on cats. The Mixed olympic Multihull class will simply mean something else to the cat sailing world.
I was with you right up to the end. I wouldn't say that the Olympic sailors won't be the best on the smaller cats due to the AC, any more than saying the same would be true with the keelboats back when the AC was on monohulls.
It's always been a different group of sailors. The Olympics tend to feed the super-high-end regattas (AC, VOR, etc.); as that's where the money is. Said another way, an Olympic medal is a pre-requisite to get the top-paying rides at other major events.
My two cents, YMMV...
Mike
A lot of people seem to be in an awful hurry to assume that it will be the H16. Seems premature.
They look kool against 420s,
but while racing against the top shelf Formula 16s, 18s, and the slippery, hard - chined, decked NACRA Formula 20 C, the design might lack media appeal.
How about the USA worry more about team training rather than comp tips ---lobbying; Go Figure!
I say we spend two years defining 'Mixed' as Youth/Adult or Male/Female. In 2014 we go 'Mixed' as Male/Female.
A five minute chat with any of the carbon mast makers will get them started on a Carbon Rig with an outer layer of glass and a sleeve at the hounds, thus removing the need to sail h16s. Given the long term sales possibility I wouldn't be surprised to hear that southern etc are already working on stock products to offer AHPC and Nacra for their f16 products.
I second your note on carbon masts. Surely there is some dielectric material they could add to the outer coatings to achieve some modicum of resistance to conductivity?
The specs are isolation not insulation. There are several ways to acheive this.
and there you have it! <img src="<>/smile.gif" alt="smile" title="smile" height="15" width="15" /> carbon wings it is....
Doesn't that Dragoon thing have more floatation than the H-16?
a layer or two of some light fiberglass would do it.
Here's a question...
Why are they asking for that?
How many boats in Southern Europe already have that requirement?
Anyone will be able to submit their boat even if it doesn't meet the spec. ISAF will then do a paper evaluation and invite selected boats to the trial. It doesn't mean that even these shortlisted boats have to adhere to all the requirements in the spec, however, I'm sure there are a few show stoppers and some
nice to haves
.
For example, it says Sloop Rig, but if someone can come up with a good arguement why a cat rigged boat with a spinnaker would work, then I'm sure it would be in the mix.
And I can't speak for Hobie Cat, but I would be surprised if they even put forward the Hobie 16.
If I sit on the ISAF committe... I know that all of my money comes from the Olympics... I know that the IOC wants the best and truly world wide competition. I know I have a unique / weird event... no other sailing competition is mandatory mixed.... so... automatically, I have the best in the world.. but nobody competes right now... and no equipment is favored.
So, what I really want to know ... what the vision is of this event within the Sailing games within the big picture. If I am a builder... I ALSO want to know what the vision is... Do you want a high tech marvel... baby tornado... or something more accessible.
You note that anyone can submit their boat on paper ... and then wait for the invite.. However, the spec's have these quirks... non conducting two part masts... which are NOT present in the world today and the market has clearly not asked for... so Why such an oddly constrained request?
I would go low end... accessible.. If not the hobie 16... something low tech and affordable.
Mike... I disagree with you on this last point... After they dumped the Tornado and Before the AC changes.. The elite, best in the world, Multi sailors were Bundy, Asby, Booth Ogletree, and the other top 10 Olympic sailors. This was it... Most importantly... there was no place to go... These guys did not get rides on the big monohulls... Their careers were racing the elite small cats. (The ocean racing game is very different).
So.. the Olympics were the ultimate and final level for multi sailors. Now with the AC cup action... All the sailors I mention have moved up... and the elite mulithull game has exploded as other pro's come into the game... Spithill... Hutchinson... etc.
Mixed Multihull Olympic competition will never be the ultimate level. (Expecially since no other competition is mixed) AND the myth that there was something unique about sailing a multi at the top level has been exploded... (Hutch... spithill...etc).
Olympic multihull sailing will not be the pinnacle of our sport... It will be a quirky competition every 4 years and I will applaud the sailors who compete and win.
In france a few vipers (F16) are already sailing with a carbon mast.
Mark, you seem to have forgotten the other major (paying) multihull events, such as Extreme 40s; and I would not discount those giant trimarans that race across the oceans, around the world, etc. Those events give the Olympic sailors something to do post-Olympics.
Most of the sailors on those boats were in the Olympics first. I don't see a change, the AC (on cats) is just one more high-octane, paying event that is taking former Olympic sailors.
Mike